[3-Way Trade] Penguins acquire Derick Brassard, Vincent Dunn, Tobias Lindberg, 3rd-round pick (OTT); Senators acquire Ian Cole, Filip Gustavsson, 1st-round pick (PIT), 2019 3rd-round pick (PIT); Golden Knights acquire Ryan Reaves, 4th-round pick (VAN)

[RRypien37]

18 minutes ago, Toews said:

It was a stupid move paying what they did to get him in the first place. They clearly overreacted to what happened in the playoffs with Sid. The league is going away from this type of player. Its no surprise that all over the league players like these are stapled to the press box or waived to go down to the AHL. The NHL is an 'excuse me' league now. Hardly anyone goes out there with the mentality of crushing the opposition, they all think of themselves as scorers now. Maybe by accident someone actually delivers a hard shoulder-to-shoulder bodycheck, then that player gets mugged for the audacity of hitting a player cleanly. 

Yes. Welcome to the new NHL. No Hit League. Disgusting. 

[flickyoursedin]

If guys are playing under 7 minutes a game they can be had. They paid a big price for Reeves. There was more moving parts in the trade so it wasn’t a clean swap of a first rounder for Reeves but still. Proposed the Canucks targeting him and people called me crazy Pitts would never give him up that easily. Kinda wish Benning facilitated this trade eating cap space, getting his toughness and gaining a pick.

[theo5789]

6 minutes ago, oldnews said:

yes, thanks - read a source from the time of the deal that didn't realize that was an inclusion at the time.

 

 

Still - that isn't really the issue here - it's the return Ott got.   Which imo is poor.

 

The thing is - the asset value now is a late 1st, 47th overall G, and a 3rd.

 

Brassard could get injured tomorrow.

Ottawa could draft against the odds and get a couple great players.

 

But the actual value - the mean value of those picks = a poor return on a top 6, 4th leading scorer on your team.

I know there's a rebuild/pick mania - but not all picks are equal, and that 1st is spots better than a high 2nd.

 

St Louis and Vegas win.  Pittsburgh accomplishes a Cup run sacrifice.  Ottawa gets longshot assets.

The late 1st could potentially be a dropping Ryan Merkley or a Dominik Bokk who would be very intriguing prospects to get with a late 1st. They're lacking a decent goalie prospect and with Anderson being 36, they need someone that could potentially step up soon. On top of the extra 3rd, they got Ian Cole who they could flip for more picks or a prospect.

 

Brassard may be the 4th leading scorer, but his offensive production is around the Sedins and Vanek. I imagine we would be happy if we just got a 3rd alone for Vanek. Brassard has the advatange of age and being a center, but he also has a 5 million dollar cap hit (including one more season) that Ottawa got rid of without retaining anything thanks to Vegas. Brassard will help Pittsburgh in being a 3rd line center and Ottawa got rid of a player not in their plans and set themselves up for a rebuild regardless of potential statistics if the picks will turn out or not (why do people bother buying lottery tickets with those odds?)

 

I think Ottawa did alright in this trade as did everyone else.

[oldnews]

Just now, theo5789 said:

The late 1st could potentially be a dropping Ryan Merkley

not the point.

debating outliers is misleading

those picks have mean value - that is it.  the but, but outlier argument does not realize the real value of a late pick - it distorts it.

[theo5789]

4 minutes ago, oldnews said:

not the point.

debating outliers is misleading

those picks have mean value - that is it.  the but, but outlier argument does not realize the real value of a late pick - it distorts it.

Why do people keep buying lottery tickets? You may lose often, but you do get some small wins and if you're really lucky you can hit a jackpot. A lot are estatic if they even win a $500 prize from the lottery, but if you don't bother buying the ticket because of the bad odds, you will never get the chance to win. 

 

Should we try to re-sign Vanek instead of trading him because that 3rd round pick or whatever we get could have very low odds of becoming anything?

 

If you have a good scouting staff, you can make those picks count regardless of the statistics where other teams have poor scouting skewer it. Look at a team like Tampa who seem to find gems in any round. In today's cap NHL, finding good players that are young and cheap are worth their weight in gold.

 

I'm curious as to what you would have thought would be good value for Brassard.

[VegasCanuck]

1 hour ago, mll said:

So Pittsburgh lost their toughness.  Reaves was playing 6:45 per game. 

Now, Pittsburgh and Vegas make the final and Reaves scores the cup winning goat, ending Penguins streak! 

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Why do people keep buying lottery tickets?

poor tax

for dreamers

you don't bet on them do you.

[J-Dizzle]

2 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Now, Pittsburgh and Vegas make the final and Reaves scores the cup winning goat, ending Penguins streak! 

That's like saying NIck Foles will beat Tom Brady in the Superbowl..... oh wait

[theo5789]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

poor tax

for dreamers

you don't bet on them do you.

No but I think the odds of finding a decent player with a late 1st is better than winning the lottery.

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, theo5789 said:

No but I think the odds of finding a decent player with a late 1st is better than winning the lottery.

yeah like I said 20-25% ish.

you brought up the poor lottery ticke analogy

[D-Money]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

So Pitt jumps through a lot of hoops to make this happen.

Pays Vegas Reaves +pick - who they paid a 1st (31 - Klim Klostin)  and Oskar Sundqvist for.

Pays a comparable return for Brassard to what they paid for Reaves.

 

Vegas wins.  As did St Louis, obviously.

Pitts gets to send cap to a team that never dressed Brassard.

Ottawa gets bent over.

 

Surprise.

Huh? 

 

Ottawa got a 1st rounder in a deep draft (a late one, but regardless), the top goaltender from the WJCs, and Ian Cole, who they will likely get another 3rd round pick for. For renting a 2nd line center who was an impending UFA. They didn't even need to retain any money (Vegas did it for them).

 

Maybe it's just me, but I think Ottawa did fantastic here. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't out-do some of their past moves (such as trading MZ for Brassard in the first place), but it's definitely a step in the right direction.

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, D-Money said:

For renting a 2nd line center who was an impending UFA.

nope

[oldnews]

19 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

No but I think the odds of finding a decent player with a late 1st is better than winning the lottery.

the point would be kinda like this:

Shinkaruk is going to be a great top 6 F!.....uh. oh.

Jensen is going to be a great.....uh.

McCann is going to be a ......maybe

Gaunce is gonna!  maybe

 

and that is the general trend in the league.  Take a better team and it's not much different - or the league over a larger sample.

1 out of 4 or 5 of these guys becomes an NHL regular.  A smaller percentage a top 4 or top 6.

 

So the odds are about 50% that you get one of those maybes, and 50% that you get one of those nopes.

And goaltenders hit at a much, much lower percentage. 

 

Trading top 6 centers for those kind of centerpieces is definitely a gamble - and not a great one.

[D-Money]

26 minutes ago, oldnews said:

nope

Oh, he has another year left...still, that's a good return IMO.

[oldnews]

Just now, D-Money said:

Oh, he has another year left...still, that's a good return IMO.

it could be - if Ottawa hits over their batting average on those pitches.  but outliers don't determine pick value.

 

if you take it at mean values - which is all random picks are - I can't agree with you.

 

If they got a couple picks as secondary pieces with an actual NHL ready (or near ready) piece involved, I'd agree.

 

But this isn't a rental, and there's no urgency to dump him for longshots. 

[86Viking]

Vegas doing Pittsburgh a massive favour in this trade. Taking 40% of Brassard and taking Reeves for the rest of this year for a 4th round pick? Plus they gave up 2 AHL F. 

 

 

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, D-Money said:

 a deep draft

tell me more about this.

I hear this every year.

I don't buy it.

[mll]

39 minutes ago, Yotes said:

Vegas doing Pittsburgh a massive favour in this trade. Taking 40% of Brassard and taking Reeves for the rest of this year for a 4th round pick? Plus they gave up 2 AHL F. 

 

 

Wonder if Vegas might not try and move Reaves before the deadline.  They are built on speed.  

 

Although not sure they liked Sbisa having to fight Hartman (broke his hand) and there's no roster limit after the TDL.  

 

[oldnews]

42 minutes ago, Yotes said:

Vegas doing Pittsburgh a massive favour in this trade. Taking 40% of Brassard and taking Reeves for the rest of this year for a 4th round pick? Plus they gave up 2 AHL F. 

 

 

yeah - it's an interesting tactical move if you actually consider yourself a contender - one that could potentially face that team in the SCF.

 

[lethunder]

26 minutes ago, oldnews said:

yeah - it's an interesting tactical move if you actually consider yourself a contender - one that could potentially face that team in the SCF.

 

 

I read that they did it because apparently Winnipeg was heavily in the mix for Brassard and Vegas figured it better to help facilitate a trade to help Pittsburgh instead where the odds of facing the Penguins I'm the SCF are much lower than facing the Jets in an earlier round. 

 

Just a good ol fashioned c*ckblock