tas Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, chilliwiggins said: We seem to be on average pulling 1 point something players out of each draft that can play aside from 2014 draft, so I think the reigns should be pulled in a bit on expectations of what we have. 2014/15 was the window where the game changed and went to speed and skill where typically undersized skilled point producing players could still be drafted past the 2nd round and beyond. That isn't the case anymore, whats interesting to me is that the amount of drafted players has only been changed by 7 players, so who is now not being drafted that in the past were being drafted in those spots taken by the undersized players? keeping in mind that, logically, there should be fewer per year the more recent we get since there's been less time for development: 2014- virtanen, mccann, demko, tryamkin, forsling. 4 current NHL players, 1 former/potential future nhl player. let's call it 5 nhl players. 2015- boeser, gaudette, brisebois, jasek. so far there's 1 star player, 1 player who's in the ahl only due to a logjam in front of him, 1 guy who's currently called up due to injury, and 1 guy that has a strong chance at being an nhl player. let's call.this 3.5 nhl players. 2016- juolevi has obviously had a roller coaster start, but he'll be a regular nhl player of some sort. lockwood is almost guaranteed to at least get a cup of coffee. I also personally wouldn't be surprised to see rodrigo abols, currently leading his shl team in goals, make a cameo appearance at some point down the line. let's call this 2 nhl players. 2017- pettersson is obvious. dipietro will play. lind, gadjovich, and rathbone are 50/50. palmu and brassard each have a longer shot. I'm calling it 4 nhl players. 2018- hughes will be in the league in a month. woo and madden are virtual locks to make an nhl team, in some capacity, at some point. 3 nhl players. 17.5 nhl players damn near guaranteed out of 5 drafts, is 3.5 players per draft, which is scary good. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 52 minutes ago, tas said: why? virtanen is the same age and is actually contributing at both ends of the ice in the nhl. Exactly...Virtanen / Gaudette / MacEwen would be a very hard to handle line....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 You know, everyone assumes that Madden is thinking NHL But...…. He could be thinking SHL or Swiss leagues, where he can play against tough competition, and still grow as a player It will depend on his conversation with his father, and what they come up with My question, is, is Madden getting enough out of the competition in the NCAA to develop to his ceiling? To me, his dad, and his unofficial advisors, that his dad would hire, would be best to answer that...….. My bet is he plays one more year in the NCAA, then makes that decision, but Europe is always a consideration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, chilliwiggins said: This is exactly what I meant. If they are not getting regular minutes in the A, why is that???? Gaunce has proven he can play without the coach getting all puckered up. The rest of them remain to be seen. Virtual is different from reality. A cup of coffee is not an NHL player, neither is a CAMEO. they're not getting huge minutes in the ahl because it's their first year of pro and the marching orders from this organization have been crystal clear forever that opportunities are earned, not given. give lind and gadjovich another couple years. it isn't a sprint. Edited February 10, 2019 by tas 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: You know, everyone assumes that Madden is thinking NHL But...…. He could be thinking SHL or Swiss leagues, where he can play against tough competition, and still grow as a player It will depend on his conversation with his father, and what they come up with My question, is, is Madden getting enough out of the competition in the NCAA to develop to his ceiling? To me, his dad, and his unofficial advisors, that his dad would hire, would be best to answer that...….. My bet is he plays one more year in the NCAA, then makes that decision, but Europe is always a consideration Why would he throw free education in the bin to go to a league that is marginally better, if better at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungass Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 1 hour ago, tas said: why? virtanen is the same age and is actually contributing at both ends of the ice in the nhl. Help on defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 35 minutes ago, Dungass said: Help on defence. virtanen's trade value wouldn't be high enough to return a player good enough to justify cutting bait on travis green's pet project. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 41 minutes ago, stawns said: Why would he throw free education in the bin to go to a league that is marginally better, if better at all? Morning Stawns I am not saying which place he is better off in.....that is for him and his family to decide I am just saying it is an option..... And you are right from my side, but then they hardly play their last year anyways if they are talented but in saying that.... My thought is this...………. "IF" it is thought that the NCAA, will not give him as much competition, and that the European league (which ever) is Marginally better, than he would have to put just a little more out in terms of effort...….they might decide that that is better for him Personally, I like to see a transition of dominance for a player to master....but Madden seems to be ahead of my plan First year -struggle/adjust 2nd year - start to dominate 3rd year - dominate and confirm confidence But Europeans, do not normally do it that way, as they always seem to push cream to the top....always up, up, up I have only really seen Madden in the Juniors, and NCAA....so I do not have a clue what direction he should take I was just suggesting there are choices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronic.Canuck Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, chilliwiggins said: exactly why you must question yourself. EARNED NOT GIVEN. So just out of curiousity, do you think McEneny is getting re-signed by the Canucks, or is he being traded, or released at TDL or season end? Don't forget about that KNEE. There isn't many prospect contracts up at season end so it isn't much to evaluate Ok look at it this way of the 13 ufa's and rfa's from Utica in 2017/18 to 2018/19 this is what has happen so far. Labate gone Molino gone Cassels gone Holm gone traded Pedan gone traded Laplante mystery gone Rodin gone Boucher career AHLer nothing more. Megna MEH Carcone traded Subban traded then released McEneny remains to be seen as he is an UFA Demko remains to be seen as he is an RFA So I cant raise my expectations based on anything more than hard stats. So in my opinion 1 out of 13 players up for contract renewal have solid interest of Canucks brass of MAYBE having a future. Sure you can MICRO-MANAGE my comment with YA BUT.... BUT WHAT? A lot of those players are contracts from the old regime and players in placeholder spots while Benning's draft picks made their transitions to pro. You can't honestly believe that only 1 in 13 of our prospects will get signed and have an extended look. The five players from your list that Benning acquired: Molino - waiver wire pickup. Warm body to plug in the lineup for the last month of an injury riddled season Holm - free agent signing traded for Leipsic Boucher - big offensive piece for the farm team. Also waiver pickup Megna - free agent depth Carcone - traded for Leivo (big win) Side note, LaPlante has been injured since training camp. His career might be over. None of these players above were drafted by the current regime. They're being replaced by guys like Gaudette, Lind, Jasek, MacEwen, Dahlen, Chatfield, Brisebois, Sautner, Juolevi. Soon to be joined by Madden, Rathbone, Woo etc. It's easy to tell the quality of these players should vastly exceed the previous list. Three years from now if we only have one of these players under contract I will be truly astonished. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said: Morning Stawns I am not saying which place he is better off in.....that is for him and his family to decide I am just saying it is an option..... And you are right from my side, but then they hardly play their last year anyways if they are talented but in saying that.... My thought is this...………. "IF" it is thought that the NCAA, will not give him as much competition, and that the European league (which ever) is Marginally better, than he would have to put just a little more out in terms of effort...….they might decide that that is better for him Personally, I like to see a transition of dominance for a player to master....but Madden seems to be ahead of my plan First year -struggle/adjust 2nd year - start to dominate 3rd year - dominate and confirm confidence But Europeans, do not normally do it that way, as they always seem to push cream to the top....always up, up, up I have only really seen Madden in the Juniors, and NCAA....so I do not have a clue what direction he should take I was just suggesting there are choices As far as development goes, Madden is best suited to stay in the NCAA imo. He will be given top line minutes, a leader of the team, play all situations and given another year to take his dominance of the NCAA up a notch. Also education is pricey and getting that second year is huge. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podz92 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, cyoung said: As far as development goes, Madden is best suited to stay in the NCAA imo. He will be given top line minutes, a leader of the team, play all situations and given another year to take his dominance of the NCAA up a notch. Also education is pricey and getting that second year is huge. Not to mention the additional time in the weight room to put on some mass and build his strength. He's an exciting prospect but I don't want to see him rushed. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) Agreed with others who think Madden is best served by playing another year at Northeastern. I’m just excited that our 2018 3rd round pick, and a college player to boot, has accelerated so much in his development that he actually has to ponder whether or not he should go pro after his D+1. I mean, was there anybody, and I mean anybody, who on draft day thought there was even the slightest chance this kid might actually be ready in a year? Edited February 10, 2019 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: Agreed with others who think Madden is best served by playing another year at Northeastern. I’m just excited that our 2018 3rd round pick, and a college player to boot, has accelerated so much in his development that he actually has to ponder whether or not he should go pro after his D+1. I mean, was there anybody, and I mean anybody, who on draft day thought there was even the slightest chance this kid might actually be ready in a year? I thought minimum 3 years college and if he progressed from there another 2 in AHL. This was a huge surprise to me, especially considering his USHL numbers weren't giving any reason to suggest this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 while I agree that another year of learning, growing, getting stronger, maturing etc. at college would be the ideal circumstance, if madden and his camp are determined for him to turn pro, I think you do it. his dad has too much money and too many connections to risk souring the relationship, lest they try to force the issue themselves by requesting a trade or running off to europe, or even holding out his 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 1 more year at minimum for Madden at the College level, then maybe if he turns pro he does a Utica pro tryout or starts the following year in the A, where he might need a couple years at also. Nice to see how he has done this year, but it is a big jump from College to AHL to NHL. Keep on Grinding Tyler! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 9 hours ago, drummerboy said: Why do you think they are failing in the development department? No, just it's a tough game there. Cull wants to win and little room for extra ice time to train. I think the kids need a lot of leash and to learn by trial and error. We'd have to live with their mistakes as they learn the pro game. I don't think Cull has that in his mandate. That's why Gadz and guys like Palmu sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) On 2/9/2019 at 8:29 AM, Rollieo Del Fuego said: I am almost the only guy on here who predicted we would be pushing for a playoff spot this year....everybody said the very same thing as you guys..."ridiculous" I said Horvat, Stetcher, Hutton, Boeser and EP would be who they are now when almost everybody else was saying "no way they need another year" or "never be more than a 4th line centre" or "to small to make it" I said before the season started that Jake and Troy and Ben would all make big strides this year...it is happening just like I said. ...I could go on with more...but enough for now... So you guys carry on calling me out ...until I get proven right every time....and they you can call me out on the next thing I will get proven right on... I do enjoy this... Just watch..! Yeah Pal. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. You spout so many silly predictions every week, even some are bound to end up being true. The other 90% though..... Lol. Edited February 11, 2019 by Kanukfanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: Agreed with others who think Madden is best served by playing another year at Northeastern. I’m just excited that our 2018 3rd round pick, and a college player to boot, has accelerated so much in his development that he actually has to ponder whether or not he should go pro after his D+1. I mean, was there anybody, and I mean anybody, who on draft day thought there was even the slightest chance this kid might actually be ready in a year? I am sure a few posters here will say they knew!! Same ones that say every Canuck draft pick will be a sure fire NHLer lol. Edited February 11, 2019 by Kanukfanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 18 hours ago, chilliwiggins said: Original comment was about NHL players. which the return is very low. I would love to see more than 1 point something players drafted become real NHL players per year for the Canucks. YET TO BE SEEN TO SOON TO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, chilliwiggins said: for some , but I think teams have pretty much decided by the end of 2 seasons PRO, and you can see that with dropped players already Yeah...most of this regime's prospects are only arriving now (or are already on the Canucks in the case of higher end guys). Guys like Boucher etc weren't particularly brought in as 'prospects'. After a kid gets drafted, the vast majority spend 2'ish years elsewhere. Whether that's junior, college, Europe etc. so with your 'teams have pretty much decided by the end of 2 seasons PRO' - that's on average 4+ years after being drafted. Two'ish years in post draft development programs and 2 years pro in the AHL/NHL. How many years drafting does this regime have? Exactly. Edited February 11, 2019 by aGENT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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