messier's_elbow Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 On 12/16/2018 at 10:51 PM, Ryzen said: 8 Years@7.5Million a year for a total of 60Million If the Canucks are smart this works well for both player and team! Sounds about right. 6 years though. The full 8 years will cost more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 $6.5-7 million for 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Provost said: $6.5-7 million for 6 years. I’ll bet my car he gets more then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 8x8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 He should make the same as Horvat, but less than Pettersson, whatever that might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, Provost said: $6.5-7 million for 6 years. Nylander just got 7 mil/season. Brock is way better than Nylander. I'm seeing 8 mil at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: Nylander just got 7 mil/season. Brock is way better than Nylander. I'm seeing 8 mil at least. Nylander is far overpaid, the league shouldn't suffer for Dubas' mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Just now, theo5789 said: Nylander is far overpaid, the league shouldn't suffer for Dubas' mistakes. I totally agree, and would love to see Boeser come in under 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNate Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 I think he is 7.5 on a 6 year deal, slightly above or below 9 on an 8 year deal. Anything over 6 years buys prime UFA and will cost huge $. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 On 12/16/2018 at 11:11 PM, coastal.view said: if you want to take a serious look at brock's contract look at percentage of cap he should get in the range of 10% of cap if he maintains his pace since he started in the nhl of 40 goals per season he is still an rfa, so there is some discounting for that but 8 years will buy free agent years and the cap will go up about 2.5 million per year, or 20 million over the 8 year terms 10% of cap now is about 8 million, 10% of cap in last of his 8 year contract will be around 10 million so his contract will need to be over 8 million aav and likely closer to 9 million so your "works well" is about 10 million light I doubt contract negotiations look into projected cap increases especially over that long of a duration. Who knows what the cap will be like in 6 years? The benefit of the cap going up should allow teams to fit in their best players/be able to sign depth and we shouldn't be signing a contract that takes into account the cap increase to hinder our cap situation for the duration of the contract. Perhaps his agent will view it the way you do, but I certainly would not want to make a deal like this from the team's perspective. Personally I think 7.5 per year for 8 years is certainly reasonable and he can have a NMC or whatever in his UFA years to discount some of those years plus the fact that he's on a RFA contract currently which should lower his bargaining. Add in the fact that Horvat looks massively underpaid consider he's almost PPG on top of everything else he provides and the Canucks have a good case to lower the negotiations even further. Boeser doesn't seem like a selfish guy and will do what's reasonable for himself and the team if he expects to win, so I wouldn't be shocked at 5 year deal for 6.5 million. I look at someone like Gaudreau who signed a 6 year 6.75 million per year deal in a similar circumstance (2nd contract with no arbitration rights and coming off being a PPG and arguably more valuable to his team than Boeser). Although in this case, Boeser might hit the 7 million mark due to "inflation" of the cap from when Gaudreau signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 the real answer is: whatever it takes. you don't dick around with your core, star players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, BCNate said: I think he is 7.5 on a 6 year deal, slightly above or below 9 on an 8 year deal. Anything over 6 years buys prime UFA and will cost huge $. The UFA years really depends on how committed he is to Vancouver whether he feels it'll be important to have that option to potentially hit the market. If he's committed to Vancouver, then we can give him a NMC for those extra years so that he remains a Canucks and hopefully he takes a bit of a discount in that case. The Canucks are trending up and we should hopefully be a very good team beyond the 6 year mark anyway and he would help contribute to building that good team by giving us more cap space to work with come that time. If he does do an 8 year deal that includes UFA years, then 8x8 seems fair to me as maybe he comes a bit under in terms of the UFA market, but we will be paying him more for the first 6 years to make up for it (where he has less favourable negotiation on his side, unless he chooses to sign a bridge). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 24 minutes ago, Alflives said: I totally agree, and would love to see Boeser come in under 7. Hopefully any contract 6 years or under will be 7 million or under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNate Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, theo5789 said: The UFA years really depends on how committed he is to Vancouver whether he feels it'll be important to have that option to potentially hit the market. If he's committed to Vancouver, then we can give him a NMC for those extra years so that he remains a Canucks and hopefully he takes a bit of a discount in that case. The Canucks are trending up and we should hopefully be a very good team beyond the 6 year mark anyway and he would help contribute to building that good team by giving us more cap space to work with come that time. If he does do an 8 year deal that includes UFA years, then 8x8 seems fair to me as maybe he comes a bit under in terms of the UFA market, but we will be paying him more for the first 6 years to make up for it (where he has less favourable negotiation on his side, unless he chooses to sign a bridge). I don't disagree with you. 8x8 on a discount, 9+ open market. I feel that is the going rate for a 40 goal, 70-80 point winger. I may be delusional, but I feel that guys like Brock and EP seem like the type of guys who would take team friendly deals rather that try to grind out every penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, theo5789 said: I doubt contract negotiations look into projected cap increases especially over that long of a duration. Who knows what the cap will be like in 6 years? The benefit of the cap going up should allow teams to fit in their best players/be able to sign depth and we shouldn't be signing a contract that takes into account the cap increase to hinder our cap situation for the duration of the contract. Perhaps his agent will view it the way you do, but I certainly would not want to make a deal like this from the team's perspective. Personally I think 7.5 per year for 8 years is certainly reasonable and he can have a NMC or whatever in his UFA years to discount some of those years plus the fact that he's on a RFA contract currently which should lower his bargaining. Add in the fact that Horvat looks massively underpaid consider he's almost PPG on top of everything else he provides and the Canucks have a good case to lower the negotiations even further. Boeser doesn't seem like a selfish guy and will do what's reasonable for himself and the team if he expects to win, so I wouldn't be shocked at 5 year deal for 6.5 million. I look at someone like Gaudreau who signed a 6 year 6.75 million per year deal in a similar circumstance (2nd contract with no arbitration rights and coming off being a PPG and arguably more valuable to his team than Boeser). Although in this case, Boeser might hit the 7 million mark due to "inflation" of the cap from when Gaudreau signed. so you are saying if you are an agent you would allow your client to sign a long term contract and ignore the fact the cap goes up every year?? i can assure you that agents always factor this in just like they account for free agent years included in a contract players tend to only accept the so called home town discounts when a team is at its peak this team is not contracts are the business side of hockey and players have pressure on them to obtain highest value available to increase the overall salaries of all players bo did not take a home town discount many thought he was overpaid when his contract was signed his contract is also lower as he did not sign an 8 year contract so think about what you believe is a bit of an over payment for brock and that is more likely the number he will sign at rather then any discount number you propose since you think 7.5 is fair and a bit of a discount for brock i think it more likely he will end up signing for over 8 aav (likely 8.5) the other part about your bo comparisons is that your argument is weak when you think about ep40 you think he'll sign for under 10? under 12? if he continues his current pace? what does that do to your concerns about bo? if ep40 signs for a contract double bo's aav? bo's contract will have very minimal impact on the brock and ep40 signings at least in my view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, coastal.view said: so you are saying if you are an agent you would allow your client to sign a long term contract and ignore the fact the cap goes up every year?? i can assure you that agents always factor this in just like they account for free agent years included in a contract players tend to only accept the so called home town discounts when a team is at its peak this team is not contracts are the business side of hockey and players have pressure on them to obtain highest value available to increase the overall salaries of all players bo did not take a home town discount many thought he was overpaid when his contract was signed his contract is also lower as he did not sign an 8 year contract so think about what you believe is a bit of an over payment for brock and that is more likely the number he will sign at rather then any discount number you propose since you think 7.5 is fair and a bit of a discount for brock i think it more likely he will end up signing for over 8 aav (likely 8.5) the other part about your bo comparisons is that your argument is weak when you think about ep40 you think he'll sign for under 10? under 12? if he continues his current pace? what does that do to your concerns about bo? if ep40 signs for a contract double bo's aav? bo's contract will have very minimal impact on the brock and ep40 signings at least in my view Actually I'm saying if I'm an agent then I would argue the cap increase argument to bump up the numbers, but from a team perspective, I would not want this. So at the end of the day it averages out in the middle somewhere. I agree that Bo likely signed a cheaper deal so it wouldn't buy into his UFA years, but that's also a factor into Boeser new contract. When you split it up and say his first 6 years have less bargaining power. I'm suggesting 6.5 million for 5 years, but lets say 7 million for 6 years (all RFA years). Who knows what he will become 6 years down the road (injuries or decline, or even the other spectrum in that he improves and becomes a 50 goal scorer), so if his play drops off for whatever reason in 6 years, let's say his value remains at 7 million a season, but if it peaks, maybe he net a 13 million dollar a season contract come that time, so we average it out to about 10 million based on potential possibilities. So 2 years of UFA status at 10 million evaluation. So over the 8 year contract, he nets 62 million, which averages out to 7.75 million per season. Bump it back a bit to 7.5 million a year as a team friendly discount and give him a NMC for those UFA years. There will be arguments about why he deserves more and some will say less, but it'll all average out generally. If he hits 8x8, I'll be fine with that too and that would add 4 million more than what I suggested over the duration of the contract and hopefully should cover the difference for cap increase if that is a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 On 12/17/2018 at 8:31 AM, Samgagner'sface said: I'd hope for 8x8, but we'll see. Can't believe we have Horvat doing what he's been doing for 5.5. Maybe the best deal in the league right now At this moment I’d say it’s the second best deal after Scheifele. As for Brock it’s tough to say as we aren’t even halfway through the season but I’d love to see something along the lines of 7x7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 24 minutes ago, BCNate said: I don't disagree with you. 8x8 on a discount, 9+ open market. I feel that is the going rate for a 40 goal, 70-80 point winger. I may be delusional, but I feel that guys like Brock and EP seem like the type of guys who would take team friendly deals rather that try to grind out every penny. That 9+ on the open market possibility is at least 6 years down the road too and there are many factors that could be looked at to determine if he would even hit that number come UFA time. The reality is those 6 years should "buy down" his overall contract and the UFA years will have a much smaller impact to the overall contract (if 8 years). 6.5-7 million is nothing to scoff at with much less bargaining power, plus I agree that I don't see Boeser being the type of guy that will sit out like Nylander to force his hand. I don't think Nylander is a fair comparable either as I think he is overpaid and I would have to consider guys like Gaudreau who also has a very team friendly deal of 6.75 over 6 years on his 2nd contract. Or even Ehlers at 6 million for 7 years (which buys what looks like 3 UFA years for him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beni Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 CBA is up soon.. remember what happened last time? Have to keep that in mind going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Just now, beni said: CBA is up soon.. remember what happened last time? Have to keep that in mind going forward. Is the claw-back still at 14%? Agents have to consider that, when getting contracts done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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