Goodbye Hong Kong. Nice knowing you....

[kingofsurrey]

2 hours ago, erkayloomeh said:

I know your post is old but I'm curious what you have against Israel 

 

Israel continued to impose institutionalized discrimination against Palestinians living under its rule in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT). Israeli forces killed 38 Palestinians, including 11 children, during demonstrations in the Gaza Strip and West Bank; many were unlawfully killed while posing no imminent threat to life. Israel failed to ensure accountability and redress for victims of such grave violations of international humanitarian and human rights law. Israeli air strikes and shelling in the Gaza Strip killed 28 Palestinian civilians who were not directly participating in hostilities, including 10 children

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/23/amnesty-ten-global-hotspots-for-major-human-rights-violations-in-2017.html

[Lancaster]

1 hour ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Yes, the pandemic certainly took the spotlight off of the situation in HK, both here and in the greater outside world.  Not being able to protest meaningfully, and what protests that have popped up have been under-reported and quelled quickly, both due to social distancing directives enacted by 7por certainly hasn't helped either.  

 

It's good to see that people are generally supporting and supportive of the "Yellow Economy/Yellow Economic Circle", so much so that the city's lame-duck gov't and their CCP overlords had to say something about it.

 

As for what can be done - first step is to get rid of that god-awful useless "one china policy" (and any "one china principle").  Giving Taiwan membership status in the UN would be indicative of this.

 

Starving the CCP would be another.  Unfortunately, that's going to be harder to do, because rightly or wrongly, blind nationalists and pro-establishment types (because of personal benefit, including other international state actors) will be supportive of the CCP and will find ways to prop it up.  Cutting them at the pass while they still haven't fully established this road/belt initiative would be a good tactic though.

 

However, as I may have mentioned before, I don't think the west has the stomach to accept war as a possible outcome, and very likely, if the CCP gets an existential threat - there's a saying, "force the tiger to jump the wall", and the CCP would likely be that tiger if it felt threatened, and unfortunately I suspect that at the first sign of sabre rattling, the west will make concessions.

The world should just start supporting Taiwan more.  

Start selling F-35 to them, have the US set up THAAD there, permanently have part of the US 7th fleet docked there, Western countries should start opening actual Consulate offices there, Canada should be clamouring to sell the same armoured vehicles they sold to the Saudi.  

Plus start negotiations for free-trade.  

[Lancaster]

4 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Further to my point about the west not having the stomach to wage war with that Asian bully, there was a report that came out earlier this month about how the US would fare in a battle in the Pacific against their adversary on the mainland in 2030 - they would be overwhelmed.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/us-would-lose-a-war-with-china-fought-in-the-pacific-is-unable-to-defend-taiwan-from-an-invasion-and-fears-the-guam-military-base-is-at-risk-now-pentagon-sources-warn/

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

(sorry, no idea how to capture the pictures and still retain the formatting)

 

EDIT: point being, the Yanks would likely exit the Pacific if they know they can't protect it, and that would leave Taiwan (and South Korea, HK, and other areas) at the whim of the CCP.  And the whole reason why they would exit is because - being a democratic country - once they experience losses (or perhaps to avoid significant loss of military personnel and hardware), their citizen would chase away and vote out any politician that would aim to promote the American military as "protector of free values".  It's all fine and dandy for them now to toot that horn... until it starts hitting them in the pocketbook and in terms of loss of loved ones.

There will still be at least 2 major location of forces in the region... South Korea and Japan.  South Korea would probably be occupied with North Korea... but drawing in Japan would be the drawing in the equivalent of a UK, France or Germany into this conflict.  

Japan isn't just being protected by the US... they have an actual alliance not unlike NATO.  Even in a hypothetical South Korea vs Japan conflict... technically the US will be siding with the Japanese due to nature of their arrangements.  

This isn't including potentially other places with US forces like in Afghanistan or places that probably could station US forces (Australia, Taiwan, etc).   

 

Or the US can just simply send out their forces in 1) Djibouti to the Indian Ocean; 2) a few ships to the Panama Canal; 3) some ships to the Straight of Malacca..... China will be running out of oil quick.  Even their new pipeline from Russia would not be enough for them.  The US will just need to turtle and wait them out.... then "GG No Re"

[nuckin_futz]

China to propose hugely controversial national security law in Hong Kong

Updated 12:30 PM ET, Thu May 21, 2020

 

 

Riot police detain a group of people during a demonstration in Hong Kong on May 10.

 

 

Hong Kong (CNN)China's rubber-stamp parliament has announced that a new national security law in Hong Kong will be on the agenda at its upcoming meeting, a move likely to fuel further anger and protests in the semi-autonomous city.

 

The law, which is expected to ban sedition, secession and subversion of the central government in Beijing, will be introduced through a rarely used constitutional method that could effectively bypass Hong Kong's legislature.

 

The move could enable Beijing to crack down on anti-government protests in Hong Kong and will raise further fears that the city's autonomy is being eroded just as demonstrations begin to resume following a lull due to the coronavirus pandemic.

 

Ahead of the annual National People's Congress (NPC) meeting, which starts Friday, spokesman Zhang Yesui announced that this year's session would review a proposal titled: "Establishment and Improvement of the Legal System and Implementation Mechanism for the Safeguarding of National Security in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region."

 

"National security is the bedrock underpinning a country's stability. Safeguarding national security serves the fundamental interests of all Chinese people, including our HK compatriots," Zhang told a news conference in Beijing on Thursday.

 

He emphasized that Hong Kong is an inseparable part of China and, "in light of new circumstances and need," it is "highly necessary" for the NPC to exercise its constitutional power to deliberate such a proposal, adding that further details would be revealed Friday.

 

The announcement came after a meeting of top Chinese officials with Hong Kong delegates to the NPC.

 

Article 23 of the Basic Law -- Hong Kong's de facto constitution -- calls on the local government to "enact laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, sedition, subversion against the Central People's Government."

 

But almost 23 years after the former British colony was handed back to China, the law has never been passed -- the last attempt in 2003 was met with what were then the largest-ever protests in the city's history, and the legislation was shelved.

 

Beijing has long been frustrated by this failure, and has called for the legislation to be introduced. However, while subsequent Hong Kong administrations have spoken of a need to pass Article 23, it has never been put on the agenda, apparently for fear of the type of widespread unrest seen last year over a proposed extradition law with mainland China.

 

Those mass protests, which lasted over six months and grew increasingly violent and disruptive before the coronavirus pandemic drew them to a partial halt, were a major challenge to Beijing's control over the city. Following a closed-door meeting of China's top decision-making body late last year, an official communique spoke of the need to "improve" Hong Kong's legal system, which some saw as a reference to Article 23.

 

Dennis Kwok, a pro-democracy lawmaker from Hong Kong's legislative body, told CNN after hearing of the proposal: "It is the end of 'one country, two systems'. Completely destroying Hong Kong."

 

"This law will provide critical supply of oxygen to 'one country, two systems,'" an editorial by the state-run Global Times newspaper fired back Thursday. "It will ensure forceful clampdown on evil foreign forces' interference in Hong Kong affairs and make extremist opposition forces in Hong Kong restrain their destructive behaviors."

 

According to local media, Hong Kong delegates to the NPC suggested to Beijing using Annex III of the Basic Law to effectively bypass the years-long gridlock over the anti-sedition legislation. Anything added to the annex must be introduced in Hong Kong "by way of promulgation or legislation."

 

Per Article 18 of the Basic Law, "laws listed in Annex III ... shall be confined to those relating to defense and foreign affairs as well as other matters outside the limits of the autonomy of the Region." Previous laws introduced in Hong Kong by law of Annex III include regulations regarding China's exclusive economic zone, which has an effect on territorial claims in the South China Sea, and legislation regarding foreign banks.

 

In recent years, the Chinese government has taken a broader view to Annex III, and in 2017 it added a national anthem law to the list. The Hong Kong government said this month that the legislature will resume debate on that bill next week. The proposed law will make it a crime punishable by up to three years in prison "to insult the national anthem."

 

That it has taken three years for the national anthem bill to receive a second reading indicates the type of delaying tactics and fierce opposition any attempt to introduce Article 23 via the legislature would bring. However, the Basic Law also permits the Hong Kong government to simply promulgate the law, bypassing lawmakers altogether. While this would be hugely controversial, and may face legal challenges, constitutionally it remains an option.

 

After the pandemic-enforced pause, unrest has begun again in earnest in Hong Kong. The national anthem law, as well as suggestions that a traditional commemoration of the Tiananmen Square massacre on June 4 might be called off, have already fired up the opposition movement, which hardly needed any additional motivation to resume protesting.

 

Putting Article 23 -- long seen as the law that would finally spell the "death of Hong Kong" -- back on the agenda is guaranteed to create further anger and protests, dashing any chance of a return to normality or healing of the city's yawning political divide.

 

*********************

 

Situation is about to get real in a damn hurry.

Edited May 21, 2020 by nuckin_futz

[nuckin_futz]

Sen. Hawley to propose resolution condemning Hong Kong security law

Thu 21 May 2020 16:01:03 GMT

 

More China rhetoric

Missouri Sen. Josh Hawley (R) is looking to propose a resolution condemning Hong Kong security law.

 

The law in Hong Kong is thought to take away rights to protest.

 

Hawley (40 years old) is thought to be a potential presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024. As such, Hawley is following in the presence footsteps by carving out an anti-China resume.  

[Sharpshooter]

Trump will acquiesce to China as he does to Russia. 
 

This is known. 

[Kakanucks]

So much for 50 years.... RIP

[Lancaster]

15 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

More like - let's see just how big and brassy (or small and fluffy) the balls of the western leaders really are.  Are they going to put up meaningful actions against such a murderous termination of freedom and democratic values in HK, or are they just going to make noises and wave arms like a hen but ultimately fold like a cheap lawnchair and expose themselves as hypocrites for chasing the gold instead of upholding and supporting their compatriots who share and actively promote the west's supposed democratic values?

 

Time will tell.  As much as I would like to see HK be able to maintain and promote their core values (and ultimately reform China's governance to become a multi-party democracy free of the CCP's influence), I'm not hopeful for HK's future.  My friends optimistically (or perhaps foolishly?) think that the CCP is just years (if not months) away from implosion.  I don't share their optimism, especially the way the CCP is now doing all-out attacks on all elements of HK core values.

It's possible for the implosion... but improbable.

 

The CCP "Mandate of Heaven" has been reliant on economic growth.  Many of China's business has been able to access foreign investments via Hong Kong.  There are huge financial markets in Shenzhen, Shanghai and even Beijing... but 70% of all foreign investments goes through HK due to transparency, the courts, and the rule of law. 

Since that's being stripped away, bit by bit, it may eventually mean the vast decline in accessibility of capital for many Chinese companies.  Without foreign investments, it's going to be a matter of time before their economy starts stagnating (it already is with lots of "zombie" companies, etc).

 

Toss in more potential trade wars, global recessions, the Wuhan virus starting 2nd/3rd wave, etc.... people are complacent when they have food and a roof over their heads.  Once they're out of work, losing money, food, and even housing... expect a lot of angry people start blaming the government for their troubles, and they would be right.  

 

Of course, the CCP would probably just start an invasion of Taiwan to conjure up more support.  

 

 

[nuckin_futz]

15 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

More like - let's see just how big and brassy (or small and fluffy) the balls of the western leaders really are. 

Don't know if many have noticed but very recently Australia called for a investigation into the origins of the Corona Virus and China flipped their sh**. Moving in a very real way to punish Australia. Taking measures to move away and reduce trade with Australia.

 

I have been very disappointed to see no western nations come to Australia's defence. Everyone is so scared of China, they won't even act in solidarity for western values.

 

Reminds me of a year and a half ago when Canada spoke up about human rights abuses in Saudi Arabia. And SA went ballistic, removing investment from Canada, recalling ambassadors etc. It was sad to see no one come to Canada's defence.

 

The west cannot let the world be taken over by thugs who do not respect human rights. And must back each other up on these issues.

 

15 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

I hope you'll pardon my cynicism, but that's all bark and no bite.  (Rhetoric is the exactly proper word to use to describe his action.)  Ultimately, like all GOP cadres before him, they'll chase the RMB harder than anyone else and turn a blind eye to human rights attacks by the CCP, democracy be damned.

 

They can't even stand behind true democratic values and protections of human rights in running their own government.  Good luck trying to extend something they're not even capable of doing onto some other jurisdiction.

The Truman Doctrine is dead. It was wobbling a bit, then this administration came along and completely kicked it's legs out. Kinda sad to learn the slogan "America First" really translates to "America Alone". Having seen this administration use HK as a bargaining chip to negotiate a lame Phase 1 trade deal was disheartening.

 

Between USA and China, if I had to bet who comes out of this virus economically for the better. It's China by a country mile. Because they do not respect democracy nor human rights. They will do anything to keep the machine moving.

 

It's sad because apart from this completely inept administration, America is a good country and a good leader. Due to our geography we will always be tied to the USA. If they fall, we fall. Hopefully the next administration will once again champion the importance of freedom and democracy.

 

16 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Yeah - we're not even halfway through on the originally agree-upon timeline yet.  

 

China: where agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Sadly this current USA administration does not respect agreements and the paper they are written on. So I wonder where China is taking it's cue from.

 

If I was in Taiwan, I'd genuinely be scared.

[nuckin_futz]

36 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

It's possible for the implosion... but improbable.

 

The CCP "Mandate of Heaven" has been reliant on economic growth.  Many of China's business has been able to access foreign investments via Hong Kong.  There are huge financial markets in Shenzhen, Shanghai and even Beijing... but 70% of all foreign investments goes through HK due to transparency, the courts, and the rule of law. 

Since that's being stripped away, bit by bit, it may eventually mean the vast decline in accessibility of capital for many Chinese companies.  Without foreign investments, it's going to be a matter of time before their economy starts stagnating (it already is with lots of "zombie" companies, etc).

 

Toss in more potential trade wars, global recessions, the Wuhan virus starting 2nd/3rd wave, etc.... people are complacent when they have food and a roof over their heads.  Once they're out of work, losing money, food, and even housing... expect a lot of angry people start blaming the government for their troubles, and they would be right.  

 

Of course, the CCP would probably just start an invasion of Taiwan to conjure up more support.  

 

 

This further adds to what you have written ...........

 

Senate passes bill that could ban some Chinese companies from U.S. stock exchanges

The Senate has unanimously passed a bill that could force some foreign companies off American stock exchanges. Any foreign company could be affected, but senators were thinking a lot about China.

It’s bipartisan legislation written by Sen. John Kennedy, R-La., and Sen. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md. They say China is cheating and misleading American investors.

 

*************

 

I won't bother quoting the whole thing but there's more in the link .......

 

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/05/21/senate-bill-foreign-companies-us-stock-exchanges/

[CBH1926]

3 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Don't know if many have noticed but very recently Australia called for a investigation into the origins of the Corona Virus and China flipped their sh**. Moving in a very real way to punish Australia. Taking measures to move away and reduce trade with Australia.

 

I have been very disappointed to see no western nations come to Australia's defence. Everyone is so scared of China, they won't even act in solidarity for western values.

 

Reminds me of a year and a half ago when Canada spoke up about human rights abuses in Saudi Arabia. And SA went ballistic, removing investment from Canada, recalling ambassadors etc. It was sad to see no one come to Canada's defence.

 

The west cannot let the world be taken over by thugs who do not respect human rights. And must back each other up on these issues.

 

The Truman Doctrine is dead. It was wobbling a bit, then this administration came along and completely kicked it's legs out. Kinda sad to learn the slogan "America First" really translates to "America Alone". Having seen this administration use HK as a bargaining chip to negotiate a lame Phase 1 trade deal was disheartening.

 

Between USA and China, if I had to bet who comes out of this virus economically for the better. It's China by a country mile. Because they do not respect democracy nor human rights. They will do anything to keep the machine moving.

 

It's sad because apart from this completely inept administration, America is a good country and a good leader. Due to our geography we will always be tied to the USA. If they fall, we fall. Hopefully the next administration will once again champion the importance of freedom and democracy.

 

Sadly this current USA administration does not respect agreements and the paper they are written on. So I wonder where China is taking it's cue from.

 

If I was in Taiwan, I'd genuinely be scared.

With the current administration in the White House I would be worried if I was any country tied to the U.S.

From Baltic states, Poland, Taiwan, Kosovo, Iraq, Australia, Canada etc.

Second term would be free for all for some of these other countries that have territorial aspirations.

 

[Lancaster]

23 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

With the current administration in the White House I would be worried if I was any country tied to the U.S.

From Baltic states, Poland, Taiwan, Kosovo, Iraq, Australia, Canada etc.

Second term would be free for all for some of these other countries that have territorial aspirations.

 

In a some sort of round about way... it does force countries to beef up their military and stop relying on the US.... exactly what Trump kept harping about.  Whether it's just blind luck or part of his strategy is irrelevant, but it should be used as an opportunity for friendly nations to start backing each other up.

 

CANZUK should be reinforced along with greater military and trade agreements among Commonwealth states (especially with India).  

Canada should be clamouring to do more trade with Japan. 

South Korea and Japan needs to just shut up about past grievances and just realize that the bigger threat is the Chinese.  The South Koreans should be reminded that it was the Chinese that stopped unification.  

Have the international community start opening consulates and embassies in Taiwan.  

 

With the China question, to quote Michael Corleone, "You want to do business with me?  I do business with you"

[CBH1926]

34 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

In a some sort of round about way... it does force countries to beef up their military and stop relying on the US.... exactly what Trump kept harping about.  Whether it's just blind luck or part of his strategy is irrelevant, but it should be used as an opportunity for friendly nations to start backing each other up.

 

CANZUK should be reinforced along with greater military and trade agreements among Commonwealth states (especially with India).  

Canada should be clamouring to do more trade with Japan. 

South Korea and Japan needs to just shut up about past grievances and just realize that the bigger threat is the Chinese.  The South Koreans should be reminded that it was the Chinese that stopped unification.  

Have the international community start opening consulates and embassies in Taiwan.  

 

With the China question, to quote Michael Corleone, "You want to do business with me?  I do business with you"

I have always been a supporter of countries being not so reliant on the U.S military.

This is especially true with the European countries.

 

The problem is, Trump changes his opinion like I change socks, one tweet it’s up next tweet is down.

When you are so unreliable it’s hard to forge alliances, this guy would leave his own family behind.

[nuckin_futz]

This is a good take on the current landscape. Pretty much bang on.

 

China bets the US won't do anything about Hong Kong takeover (and so do markets)

Fri 22 May 2020 12:47:37 GMT

 

China has ended Hong Kong's autonomy and signaled aggression in Taiwan

 

On pure politics alone, you have to give China credit: They opportunistically used a global pandemic to end Hong Kong's autonomy.

The execution so far has been perfect. Six months ago they appeared to be on the edge of sending in the mainland police in a move that would have triggered massive protests and enormous international pressure. Instead, the pandemic fell into their lap and they put out a garbled 'proposal' with vague reassurances. Effectively, they can now can supersede Hong Kong's legislature.

 

Make no mistake, this is the end of Hong Kong. Mainland police will be on the ground.

 

Naturally, they masked it in with the classic justifications about security and foreign interference. So far it's worked. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see it capturing the world's imagination and not much of the market cares right now.

 

The story now is the limp US political response. Sanctioning a few individuals and banks? Do they think that's going to discourage Beijing?

 

Here's Senator Josh Hawley who is grandstanding on a harshly worded letter:

That's laughable.

 

China has read the situation correctly: The US isn't going to do anything meaningful. Even uberhawk Pompeo basically folded:

 

Yesterday Trump appeared to have no idea what was happening, saying "nobody knows yet" the details of China's plan. "If it happens we'll address that issue very strongly," he said.

 

We'll see and that's the big risk for markets in the days ahead. Further out, China made a chilling change in the usual statement about Taiwan.

 

"We will encourage them to join us in opposing Taiwan independence and promoting China's peaceful reunification," Li said. "With these efforts, we can surely create a beautiful future for the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation."

Traditionally, the word 'peace' precedes 'reunification' in this statement.

 

This is well-and-truly the beginning of an expansionist China and its march towards regional dominance.

 

In terms of markets, appeasement from the US is actually a positive for markets in the short-term -- at least outside of Hong Kong. That could change if the US decides to draw a line in the sand.

[Chicken.]

8 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

This is a good take on the current landscape. Pretty much bang on.

 

China bets the US won't do anything about Hong Kong takeover (and so do markets)

Fri 22 May 2020 12:47:37 GMT

 

China has ended Hong Kong's autonomy and signaled aggression in Taiwan

 

On pure politics alone, you have to give China credit: They opportunistically used a global pandemic to end Hong Kong's autonomy.

The execution so far has been perfect. Six months ago they appeared to be on the edge of sending in the mainland police in a move that would have triggered massive protests and enormous international pressure. Instead, the pandemic fell into their lap and they put out a garbled 'proposal' with vague reassurances. Effectively, they can now can supersede Hong Kong's legislature.

 

Make no mistake, this is the end of Hong Kong. Mainland police will be on the ground.

 

Naturally, they masked it in with the classic justifications about security and foreign interference. So far it's worked. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see it capturing the world's imagination and not much of the market cares right now.

 

 

Makes one wonder whether the pandemic was a planned effort.. or a coincidence perhaps.. since it has gone so perfectly it seems from China's viewpoint..(hong kong situation, WHO influence, Global clout) the CPC does not care if some of their citizens die for the greater good.. let alone give a damn about other countries citizens.

 

 

Rabble rabble conspiracy 

 

 

 

[nuckin_futz]

3 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

Makes one wonder whether the pandemic was a planned effort.. or a coincidence perhaps.. since it has gone so perfectly it seems from China's viewpoint..(hong kong situation, WHO influence, Global clout) the CPC does not care if some of their citizens die for the greater good.. let alone give a damn about other countries citizens.

 

 

Rabble rabble conspiracy 

 

 

 

I'm not willing to go full nutso and say it was planned, but they are certainly going to take full advantage of it. They have a history of using situations like this to their advantage. In 1950 they used the fact that the world was exhausted both militarily and financially from WW2 to scoop up Tibet.

 

The only country who really could have come to Tibet's aid was India and they had just achieved independence from Britain in 1947, had the country divided in 2 and engaged in a bloody civil war. China used that to their advantage and were unopposed in the take over except for having to endure some sternly worded telegrams. 

 

Now with economies ravaged by Covid-19, China will once again seize the opportunity to manhandle HK and Taiwan. And they will be unopposed in doing so, save for some sternly worded tweets from a bunch of cowards.

[CBH1926]

@nuckin_futz It seems that China will have issues with others besides Australia and Canada.

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/militaries-of-india-and-china-on-high-alert-as-border-tensions-escalate/story-jMuroxwVnpIXZoR8x8YLwO.html

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-taiwan-usa-security/us-to-sell-taiwan-180-million-worth-of-torpedoes-idUSKBN22X01N

 

 

[Sharpshooter]

 

It is clear that China’s authoritarian rulers have burned a lot of bridges as of late, and most of those bridges led straight to democratic countries that have historically been allies of ours. If ever there was a time for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Liberal government to abandon its passive tone and join the international community’s effort to contain China, it’s now.

 

We should start by banning Huawei from contributing to our 5G infrastructure. We should improve our trading relationships with our democratic allies, forge new free trade agreements and press for Taiwan to be included in the Trans-Pacific Partnership. This will leave us less dependent on Chinese imports and less susceptible to tariffs imposed on our exports. Instead of pursuing a Security Council seat, we should be using our clout to try to get Taiwan included in international bodies and pushing for a thorough investigation of China’s actions over the course of this pandemic.

 

With our democratic allies lined up alongside us, this is Ottawa’s opportunity to actually make some headway in its long-simmering dispute with Beijing. All the Liberals have to do is seize it.

 

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/np-view-canada-isnt-alone-in-its-fight-with-china-anymore
 

Again, I need everyone to remember that the policies/shenanigans of the Chinese gov’t have nothing to do with the Chinese people or the overwhelming, good and honourable, Canadians of Chinese descent. They’re as Canadian as any of us. If you have a problem with Chinese people then you have a problem with me, just saying. 

[NickTheGreek]

9 hours ago, Chicken. said:

Makes one wonder whether the pandemic was a planned effort.. or a coincidence perhaps.. since it has gone so perfectly it seems from China's viewpoint..(hong kong situation, WHO influence, Global clout) the CPC does not care if some of their citizens die for the greater good.. let alone give a damn about other countries citizens.

 

 

Rabble rabble conspiracy 

 

 

 

This whole rona situation reeks of sketchy BS coming from China. Every last bit of it.

 

I don't trust that country one bit and nor should any other sane person

[Sharpshooter]

9 hours ago, Chicken. said:

Makes one wonder whether the pandemic was a planned effort.. or a coincidence perhaps.. since it has gone so perfectly it seems from China's viewpoint..(hong kong situation, WHO influence, Global clout) the CPC does not care if some of their citizens die for the greater good.. let alone give a damn about other countries citizens.

 

 

Rabble rabble conspiracy 

 

 

 

There’s no evidence that it was planned. Let’s get that out of the way right now. Until actually proven. Remember evidence is always important. Evidence corroborated is even better. 
 

However, the Chinese gov’t has capitalized on it and lied about it to their own ends. There’s no denying that. 
 

Again as a reminder to everyone, the Chinese gov’t are certainly bad actors, BUT, THE CHINESE PEOPLE, AND CANADIANS OF CHINESE DESCENT ARE NOT. (This part needs reminding because this part always needs reminding)