Gaudette Celly Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Zhukini said: The lifelines are, we finished at the bottom and we can't score and our defence sucks. BUT Boeser had a good rookie year, then Pettersson, now Hughes. They were moving at a snails pace adding one positive to the team a season. No more of that. Finishing as one of the worst teams in the league is hardly a "lifeline", let alone inability to score and a bad D. If anything those are not lifelines but anchors, and refutes your argument. Quote He's not desperately clinging to his job. He's just got 2 years to make the playoffs or he's fired and anyone who thinks otherwise has no idea where things are at in the organization. Well now you're just creating strawmen. Everyone both pro and con-trade acknowledge that Benning has set a timeline for this team, and that he EXPECTS them to be in the playoffs next year if not this one upcoming. And has been said, if they are still not there then the rebuild will have stalled or failed and people will be held accountable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 26 minutes ago, aGENT said: Since Benning took over: 2014 - 3 of 7 picks were D 2015 - 3 of 7 2016 - 2 of 6 2017 - 3 of 8 2018 - 3 of 6 This last year we also added 3 college FA D's. This 'Canucks are anti-D' agenda is a load of manure. NVM that the present issue of fixing the current, NHL level D was in no way, shape or form going to be from D taken in rounds 4-7 in the 2019 draft. The premise is beyond laughable. i don't think it is laughable in the sense you do it is clear the nucks gave priority to drafting offensive players first when jb came on board even though d take longer to develop that has contributed to the overall weakness of the recent d corp as a result of these drafting priorities, hughes is the only d drafted by the canucks since 2014 who will reasonably start this season on the team that is a fact which speaks clearly to the lack of depth of that position joulevi could join the team this season, but that is not certain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 46 minutes ago, oldnews said: Anyhow - when they start building the type of team I like, I'll be all over that bandwagon - but as long as they continue with the Coiler model - I'm going to cringe. If people here want to talk 'desperation' for a right side defenseman - the Leafs are losing Hainsey - by a landslide the best guy they had on the right side - they are left with a guy (Zaitsev) they are looking to cap dump - and beyond that....what? They had a young guy over his head - Dermott - playing his off-side. The Canucks - with Tanev - and Stecher - while also having cap space - are in world's better shape right now on the right side of their blueline -than last year's self-proclaimed "Stanely Cup favorites". They have $13.5 million to spend on 7 contracts, which include Marner, Kapanen, and Johnsson. Reports are that they will have the latter two signed for $3.Xmil, leaving about $6.5mil for Marner, clearly not enough. But even worse, that also includes only 5 dmen, one of which is Dermott who won't start the season and the other Zaitsev who is on his way out. Unless they figure the likes of Liljegren, Sandin, or Borgman are NHL-ready (which reportedly they do not believe they are), it will be interesting how they get that sorted out. Truly, their D could actually be WORSE next year. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, coastal.view said: i don't think it is laughable in the sense you do it is clear the nucks gave priority to drafting offensive players first when jb came on board even though d take longer to develop that has contributed to the overall weakness of the recent d corp as a result of these drafting priorities, hughes is the only d drafted by the canucks since 2014 who will reasonably start this season on the team that is a fact which speaks clearly to the lack of depth of that position joulevi could join the team this season, but that is not certain No, I think the premise that D taken in the 4-7 rounds of the 2019 draft would have anything to do with fixing our present D is beyond laughable. Which D would you have taken in 2014 instead of Virtanen? Fleury? Good luck selling that as an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 The real question is ........... Will this thread reach 1000 pages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur a Towel Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Googlie said: The real question is ........... Will this thread reach 1000 pages? At this rate it won't be surprising. I see people debating this all the way up to the time the pick is taken and then probably a few years after as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur a Towel Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, aGENT said: No, I think the premise that D taken in the 4-7 rounds of the 2019 draft would have anything to do with fixing our present D is beyond laughable. Which D would you have taken in 2014 instead of Virtanen? Fleury? Good luck selling that as an improvement. This. And then if we reach for a defenceman it's WHY DIDN'T WE TAKE BPA. You can never win. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Like the Canucks. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, I have some contextual differences though, but not worth spelling out for the sake of selling my views. Instead of derailing the topic, I will plainly state that I think Benning’s abandonment of his “rebuild” wasn’t anymore wise or timely than the Leafs’. I know if EP goes down, so will the Canucks, possibly the same for a Horvat injury. Losing AM didn’t stop the Leafs, even with their “lottery caliber” D, which we know was every bit as crappy as the Canucks. Both Anderson and Marky deserve credit there. The Canucks have something to pull of a blockbuster trade or trades with. The Leafs a whole helluva lot. Both need D and both have young core up front. One team has the ELCs expire already as the Canucks wait their turn. The Canucks prospect and filler D are marginally better than the Leaf’s, IMO, but given the Leafs’ capacity for trade upgrades, I’m not about to hold up one team just to put down another. In an hockey world, you have to hand it to the Leafs as they are a profitable rebuild. No two ways about it, even if it’s hedged on lotto luck, which Laine, Tkachuk, etc would have still offset, IMO. The Canucks’ version is now in play as a comparable, albeit a year or two younger in the initial comparison of when each team started to strip itself for a rebuild effort. I’m curious which college kids might want to sign in TO and Van, let alone UFA vets. I agree for the most part. But I would have gone nuts if I were a Leafs fan - watching them assemble that core - but then go into the playoffs for the 3rd straight year with a pairing like Gardiner/Dermott - and Gauthier/Ennis 4th line. They had an "all-in" disposition upon signing Tavares (and Marleau) , and then whiffed on so many of the details. In any event, I agree that they have a few pieces they could use to turn it back around quickly. I'd move Matthews. I wouldn't hesitate to. They have some holes they need to fill - and a cap crunch - he could solve a number of their problems in one fell swoop - and in the end, I'm not convinced, despite his talent, that he's the kind of player "you win with". I feel bad for Toronto. I enjoy the trash talk when they're doing well - I've even enjoyed watching them fail recently - because I thought their arrogance was premature - they never seem to fail to declare themselves SCfavorites or 'Canada's team' - and alienate the rest of the country - as their center-of-the-universe mentality always has (goes beyond hockey). But I can't enjoy their failures at this point - not any more - enough is enough. They need to learn from their mistakes - and build a team from the back forward, and from the top to the bottom. I think that is likely going to have to start with "bold moves" on their part, but perhaps they'll be forged in pressure - which is what they're dealing with now. I'm not sure I'd leave it in the hands of Spamaplan and Dubas though - I've seen enough of that to move on - or at the very least, give the two a mentor that they have to answer to. Maybe that person is already there = let Babcock be the final word on any of their hockey decisions and I suspect they'd turn it back around more quickly than leaving him at the mercy of Shanahan and Dubas. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maketherightmove Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, aGENT said: No, I think the premise that D taken in the 4-7 rounds of the 2019 draft would have anything to do with fixing our present D is beyond laughable. Which D would you have taken in 2014 instead of Virtanen? Fleury? Good luck selling that as an improvement. 2014 was such a horrible draft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, aGENT said: No, I think the premise that D taken in the 4-7 rounds of the 2019 draft would have anything to do with fixing our present D is beyond laughable. Which D would you have taken in 2014 instead of Virtanen? Fleury? Good luck selling that as an improvement. so you are saying that you are completely satsified with defence this team has compiled and constructed through the draft since 2014? i am not focusing on 2019 i just raised that as a question to oldnews as none were drafted this season Edited June 25, 2019 by coastal.view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, coastal.view said: so you are saying that you are completely satsified with defence this team has compiled and constructed through the draft since 2014? i am not focusing on 2019 i just raised that as a question to oldnews as none were drafted this season Where the hell did you get that from? No, I have written nothing of the sort. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, aGENT said: Where the hell did you get that from? No, I have written nothing of the sort. because you stated that my concern about the team's priorities regarding drafting d was laughable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 28 minutes ago, oldnews said: I have to wonder if the Leafs fan base - understandably - has the stomach for losing a Marner to future picks at this stage. You just spend a 1st to rid Marleau. A first on an expiring Muzzin. Now if you let Marner walk for futures - what happens if the Leafs slide and that Marleau 1st becomes much higher than they anticipated? If they left Marner walk they are just going to sit on there hands and do nothing. they would have just gained 4 first round picks and opened up a ton of cap space to say... front load offer sheet another player on the market. Say someone like Aho and bank the two extra first round picks they would have obtained. While moving Marleau did cost them a late first. They were able to keep both kapanen and jonhsson which i would say has more value than that 1st. The leafs are really a shutdown D away from really contending and they have more then enough assets to obtain that type of player. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: They have $13.5 million to spend on 7 contracts, which include Marner, Kapanen, and Johnsson. Reports are that they will have the latter two signed for $3.Xmil, leaving about $6.5mil for Marner, clearly not enough. But even worse, that also includes only 5 dmen, one of which is Dermott who won't start the season and the other Zaitsev who is on his way out. Unless they figure the likes of Liljegren, Sandin, or Borgman are NHL-ready (which reportedly they do not believe they are), it will be interesting how they get that sorted out. Truly, their D could actually be WORSE next year. Exactly. Hainsey was absolutely 'foundational' and he's on the out. Gardiner imo should not be difficult to replace - for less money (they may not get the flash, but they've got to be harder to play against). Reilly and Dermott are two good young pieces - with a few good prospects. Zaitsev - their lone NHL RHD - was crucified there in a 2RHD role. That contract is also awful and probably more diiffcult to move than Marleau's was. Fortunate for them - the UFA market has a lot of aging vets who are actually not bad stabilizers - so maybe a few would like to go play there. But before they can even enter the UFA market they probably need to get some cap moved or they risk reducing their leverage even more. This is why I was joking about leading them on and drawing out a Zaitsev negotiation - because the longer it goes, the more the pressure builds on that young GM. Reilly Muzzin Zaitsev Dermott Rosen Holl - and no cap space - is hellugly. And folks here cringe at Edler, Tanev, Hughes, Stecher, Hutton, Pouliot - with cap space to work with Edited June 25, 2019 by oldnews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, coastal.view said: because you stated that my concern about the team's priorities regarding drafting d was laughable Nope, for the 3rd time now... 54 minutes ago, aGENT said: NVM that the present issue of fixing the current, NHL level D was in no way, shape or form going to be from D taken in rounds 4-7 in the 2019 draft. The premise is beyond laughable. 23 minutes ago, aGENT said: No, I think the premise that D taken in the 4-7 rounds of the 2019 draft would have anything to do with fixing our present D is beyond laughable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maketherightmove Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: If they left Marner walk they are just going to sit on there hands and do nothing. they would have just gained 4 first round picks and opened up a ton of cap space to say... front load offer sheet another player on the market. Say someone like Aho and bank the two extra first round picks they would have obtained. While moving Marleau did cost them a late first. They were able to keep both kapanen and jonhsson which i would say has more value than that 1st. The leafs are really a shutdown D away from really contending and they have more then enough assets to obtain that type of player. Sure, but losing Marner or AM significantly changes their roster. They need to somehow shed salary (Nylander would be the ideal candidate for them) and add a top defenseman without messing with their core. That's pretty difficult to do, especially since they don't have first round picks or recent top end prospects that they've drafted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur a Towel Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: If they left Marner walk they are just going to sit on there hands and do nothing. they would have just gained 4 first round picks and opened up a ton of cap space to say... front load offer sheet another player on the market. Say someone like Aho and bank the two extra first round picks they would have obtained. While moving Marleau did cost them a late first. They were able to keep both kapanen and jonhsson which i would say has more value than that 1st. The leafs are really a shutdown D away from really contending and they have more then enough assets to obtain that type of player. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but they won't be able to offer sheet anybody this year as they just traded their first in the Marleau deal. Even if that pick is conditional and can be pushed back a year if it's a top 10, they wouldn't be able to use it as one since it's technically already in a deal. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Lots of Leafs debate. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just a friendly reminder that, assuming the Leafs resign Marner, nearly half of their cap will be tied up in four players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: If they left Marner walk they are just going to sit on there hands and do nothing. they would have just gained 4 first round picks and opened up a ton of cap space to say... front load offer sheet another player on the market. Say someone like Aho and bank the two extra first round picks they would have obtained. While moving Marleau did cost them a late first. They were able to keep both kapanen and jonhsson which i would say has more value than that 1st. The leafs are really a shutdown D away from really contending and they have more then enough assets to obtain that type of player. What? Reilly ____ Muzzin____(Zaitsev) Dermott______ That is one shutdown D from 'really contending"? Wow. That is one less Hainsey, one Zaitsev cap dump, and no real RHD - closer to a a desertified right side than 'really contending' They need to make 3 moves there - and that assumes Dermott progresses/is sufficient. Additionally you propose letting Marner go - and offer-sheeting an Aho - as if Carolina wouldn't match? Sorry - I can't take your assessement - or your plan - seriously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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