Dazzle Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said: Everyone wants the team to do well. Just cause your critical of some moves & arent card carrying memebers of the Jim Benning fan club doesnt mean you dont support the team. Everyone would rather see a Stanley Cup parade than see Jim Benning fired. That's not true at all. I distinctly recall one poster wanting to fire Benning for trading away the 1st round pick to acquire Miller, even if Miller might one day lead us to a cup. Everyone wants to see a Stanley Cup parade, while trading away junk pieces to acquire high-end pieces, a la NHL 19. That is a more accurate statement for all of CDC, at least. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, Silver Ghost said: As an aside to the above, i dont know of a single case where a team traded a right to a conditional pick before they actually received the pick. Correct me if I am wrong. I don't recall it happening either. I don't see any reason it couldn't be traded. The same conditions would simply apply. Edited June 27, 2019 by Baggins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Ghost Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 52 minutes ago, Baggins said: I don't recall it happening either. I don't see any reason it couldn't be traded. The same conditions would simply apply. The right to the pick could be traded as i dont think there are any restrictions on doing so. But both the Lightning and the acquiring team might have a hard time determining value in order to make a trade happen simply because of the what if nature of the pick itself. The Lightning would need something comparable to JT Miller's value and trading it would add a layer of risk on giving it up and the acquiring team would have to feel very strongly about their chance at a lottery pick coming their way to pay the kind of price TB would likely want back. Its not impossible but unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Just now, Silver Ghost said: The right to the pick could be traded as i dont think there are any restrictions on doing so. But both the Lightning and the acquiring team might have a hard time determining value in order to make a trade happen simply because of the what if nature of the pick itself. The Lightning would need something comparable to JT Miller's value and trading it would add a layer of risk on giving it up and the acquiring team would have to feel very strongly about their chance at a lottery pick coming their way to pay the kind of price TB would likely want back. Its not impossible but unlikely. It is a roll of the dice trade pick. I would give it the value of 16th overall and you could win or lose value on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Ghost Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Baggins said: It is a roll of the dice trade pick. I would give it the value of 16th overall and you could win or lose value on it. 16th overall in 1 year or 2 years though, so its even more of an unknown. Unless someone absolutely overpays I don't see Tampa moving it. There is really no incentive for them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maketherightmove Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Silver Ghost said: 16th overall in 1 year or 2 years though, so its even more of an unknown. Unless someone absolutely overpays I don't see Tampa moving it. There is really no incentive for them to. It's really impossible to say that there's no incentive without knowing context on what that conditional pick is being traded for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Ghost Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Maketherightmove said: It's really impossible to say that there's no incentive without knowing context on what that conditional pick is being traded for. Typically picks are traded for players, especially 1st round picks. Looking at Tampa as a team, they are trying to get their own cap situation sorted out and have some good prospects in waiting. They are not in a position at the moment to need to trade for another cap hit or player that is comparable to JT Miller. If they were they would have just kept JT Miller. Why would another GM trade for a heavily conditioned pick if they were providing something Tampa actually needs, which really at this point is cap space and picks. Edited June 27, 2019 by Silver Ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maketherightmove Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Silver Ghost said: Typically picks are traded for players, especially 1st round picks. Looking at Tampa as a team, they are trying to get their own cap situation sorted out and have some good prospects in waiting. They are not in a position at the moment to need to trade for another cap hit or player that is comparable to JT Miller. If they were they would have just kept JT Miller. Why would another GM trade for a heavily conditioned pick if they were providing something Tampa actually needs, which really at this point is cap space and picks. You know you can use first round picks to trade for really anything you choose to. Tampa is obviously in the middle of their win-now window, what's to say they get near the deadline and see a need they can fill and use the conditional first in that trade? Just because the Canucks' first was traded for JT Miller doesn't mean that Tampa can ONLY flip it for a JT Miller clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 59 minutes ago, Maketherightmove said: You know you can use first round picks to trade for really anything you choose to. Tampa is obviously in the middle of their win-now window, what's to say they get near the deadline and see a need they can fill and use the conditional first in that trade? Just because the Canucks' first was traded for JT Miller doesn't mean that Tampa can ONLY flip it for a JT Miller clone. Yes, you can do that. But since the quality and year of the pick are totally up in the air, nobody trading for it would pay top value because it is extremely speculative. So, since Tampa would need to take a big discount in value to trade it, they would only trade it if they were desperate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maketherightmove Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 minute ago, WeneedLumme said: Yes, you can do that. But since the quality and year of the pick are totally up in the air, nobody trading for it would pay top value because it is extremely speculative. So, since Tampa would need to take a big discount in value to trade it, they would only trade it if they were desperate. You have no idea what another team may value that pick at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 This was a great trade. Cannot wait to see JT Miller play with either Petey (most likely) or Bo!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 So, are we still bitching about about the trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 52 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said: This was a great trade. Cannot wait to see JT Miller play with either Petey (most likely) or Bo!! If this was a great trade how come only a couple of people from both TSN or Sportsnet think this was any good? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 48 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: So, are we still bitching about about the trade? Well once Vancouver wins the lottery but it becomes Tampa's pick sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 minute ago, iinatcc said: If this was a great trade how come only a couple of people from both TSN or Sportsnet think this was any good? Toronto bias media, and media in general, caters to the “hate the Canucks” markets. That hatred sells, especially in the crappy, bug infested, blizzard areas - pretty much all of Canada east of the Rockies. The rest of Canada is jealous of us. The Loser Leafs and Dubass used their next first (also protected) to dump a salary. The same media that vilifies the Canucks for trading a protected first to acquire a very good player, in his prime, and on an excellent contract, praises the Leafs for using their first to dump a player. Does that answer your question? 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Maketherightmove said: You have no idea what another team may value that pick at. You seem to be missing the point. The other teams also have no idea what to value a pick at, so the risk lowers the value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, iinatcc said: Well once Vancouver wins the lottery but it becomes Tampa's pick sure 100 bucks says that doesn't happen. You on? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: 100 bucks says that doesn't happen. You on? I’m in. Ante up boys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklas Bo Hunter Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Nyqvist Horvat Boeser Miller pettersson virtanen Beartschi gaudette leivo Pearson beagle roussel Edler Tanev Hughes Myers Benn stecher Markstrom Demko Let's go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 29 minutes ago, Alflives said: Toronto bias media, and media in general, caters to the “hate the Canucks” markets. That hatred sells, especially in the crappy, bug infested, blizzard areas - pretty much all of Canada east of the Rockies. The rest of Canada is jealous of us. The Loser Leafs and Dubass used their next first (also protected) to dump a salary. The same media that vilifies the Canucks for trading a protected first to acquire a very good player, in his prime, and on an excellent contract, praises the Leafs for using their first to dump a player. Does that answer your question? I dunno most of the people I listened to had Vancouver's best interest in mind. Ray Ferraro wasn't too keen on the idea bad he's a BC native. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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