theo5789 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, RonMexico said: My only beef with this trade is that we shouldn't have had to make it in the first place. Miller is exactly what Virtanen should be. Instead he can barely even carry JT's jock strap. AV was asked about Miller and he said he gets it now, and told the media to tell him he said that. So they did and Miller agreed. Miller is now 26. Jake is 23. There's still hope yet and Jake has been progressing year after year. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 14 hours ago, DontMessMe said: Is he worth a lottery pick? I don't think so. Hate on me all u waant. Thats how I see it. We don't know what we gave up till next year (assuming we miss playoffs this season) 37 minutes ago, DontMessMe said: U dont get it do you. What we are concerned with is the 21 pick. Im absolutely fine with giving them 15th overall selection either draft but what I am NOT ok with is lets say the 2021 pick becomes a top 3 pick cuz it won the lottery. See flyers and dallas. This is called superstition, and typical of those whose lifestyle and retirement plan is based on buying 6/49. They'd rather have magic beans than a sure thing. Go for the mystery box, it might even get you something as good as what you give up, if yer lucky! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, DontMessMe said: U dont get it do you. What we are concerned with is the 21 pick. Im absolutely fine with giving them 15th overall selection either draft but what I am NOT ok with is lets say the 2021 pick becomes a top 3 pick cuz it won the lottery. See flyers and dallas. Well, the risk is well worth it because Miller is the extra that makes that the Canucks have a chance to to make the playoffs. If you look at it as an advanced 1st, then things aren’t so bad. Edited December 10, 2019 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 38 minutes ago, DontMessMe said: What you just said is why I am worried. Other than that, its fine. Just don't be a lottery pick. Well you can be worried about it, but it's not really worth worrying for me. The likelihood of us missing the playoffs two years in a row and then "we" win the lottery with the odds of a 13-15 placed team seems very small to me at this point. If we end up as a bottom 5 team by next year, we would have far bigger problems than worrying about that 1st. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkSave Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, RonMexico said: Miller is exactly what Virtanen should be. Instead he can barely even carry JT's jock strap. Miller is having an unreal season thus far. Aside from Petey and Quinn (future superstars) no one has been able to match Miller's play on our squad. I would argue he has been our best player. Scores big goals, hard on the forecheck and whoever he plays with, he produces. Comparing Virtanen to Miller is not fair. Virtanen is making strides and will continue to improve. Hopefully when Virtanen is 26, other players can emulate his improved game! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, theo5789 said: Well you can be worried about it, but it's not really worth worrying for me. The likelihood of us missing the playoffs two years in a row and then "we" win the lottery with the odds of a 13-15 placed team seems very small to me at this point. If we end up as a bottom 5 team by next year, we would have far bigger problems than worrying about that 1st. That right there should end this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, KirkSave said: Miller is having an unreal season thus far. Aside from Petey and Quinn (future superstars) no one has been able to match Miller's play on our squad. I would argue he has been our best player. Scores big goals, hard on the forecheck and whoever he plays with, he produces. Comparing Virtanen to Miller is not fair. Virtanen is making strides and will continue to improve. Hopefully when Virtanen is 26, other players can emulate his improved game! It's not unfair at all. He was a 6th overall pick and unfortunately that matters when you are developing at a snail's pace. I expect and expected more of a JT-like performance out of Jake. I'm trying to drink the Jake koolaid but it's weak and flavourless. All I meant from my comment was that if Jake came in as billed and lived up to the hype, the Canucks probably would have never needed to acquire Miller. I'm glad they did though as he looks to be worth every penny. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, RonMexico said: It's not unfair at all. He was a 6th overall pick and unfortunately that matters when you are developing at a snail's pace. I expect and expected more of a JT-like performance out of Jake. I'm trying to drink the Jake koolaid but it's weak and flavourless. All I meant from my comment was that if Jake came in as billed and lived up to the hype, the Canucks probably would have never needed to acquire Miller. I'm glad they did though as he looks to be worth every penny. Virtanen came as billed and crashed and has had to reinvent himself entirely. The coaching staff and the entire Canucks organization is behind this young man. Are you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Me_ said: Virtanen came as billed and crashed and has had to reinvent himself entirely. The coaching staff and the entire Canucks organization is behind this young man. Are you? Nope. Nor do I feel guilted into it by you. I have little to no emotional attachment to the team and it's players. They could trade everyone and I would still cheer for the team. The players are interchangeable to me. The team is stuck with him because he has no value. So they have no choice but to see if he can be molded into something else they didn't draft him for. Not the end of the world but I'm not very optimistic. In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy watching what Miller brings to the table. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, RonMexico said: It's not unfair at all. He was a 6th overall pick and unfortunately that matters when you are developing at a snail's pace. I expect and expected more of a JT-like performance out of Jake. I'm trying to drink the Jake koolaid but it's weak and flavourless. All I meant from my comment was that if Jake came in as billed and lived up to the hype, the Canucks probably would have never needed to acquire Miller. I'm glad they did though as he looks to be worth every penny. MacKinnon didn't really break out until his 5th year in the league. He was a 1st overall pick putting up "2nd line" numbers prior to that. How many here would've moved on from him before he broke out? Jake is obviously not at this level, but for some it simply takes time and patience and development. We all hope for that next instant superstar every draft pick we make, but I don't think Jake is done growing his game just yet. The team simply has torn him down and rebuilt him in a way that will give him a long lasting career. Hopefully having someone like Miller only helps Jake grow even more to have someone he can emulate and learn from in the style he may like to play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalCanuckFan Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 minute ago, theo5789 said: MacKinnon didn't really break out until his 5th year in the league. He was a 1st overall pick putting up "2nd line" numbers prior to that. How many here would've moved on from him before he broke out? Jake is obviously not at this level, but for some it simply takes time and patience and development. We all hope for that next instant superstar every draft pick we make, but I don't think Jake is done growing his game just yet. The team simply has torn him down and rebuilt him in a way that will give him a long lasting career. Hopefully having someone like Miller only helps Jake grow even more to have someone he can emulate and learn from in the style he may like to play. Or Roussel and Ferland for that matter. I think the increased depth is helping Jake develop his game as it gives him people to emulate, a challenge to improve to stay in the line-up, and less pressure to help him grow his confidence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said: Or Roussel and Ferland for that matter. I think the increased depth is helping Jake develop his game as it gives him people to emulate, a challenge to improve to stay in the line-up, and less pressure to help him grow his confidence. Confirmation bias doesn't prove anything though. For every Roussel or Ferland or heck even Burrows, there are hundreds who never make it off the ground floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said: Or Roussel and Ferland for that matter. I think the increased depth is helping Jake develop his game as it gives him people to emulate, a challenge to improve to stay in the line-up, and less pressure to help him grow his confidence. It's certainly less pressure than for him to be the "next Bertuzzi". It looks like we are trying to build a heavy and fast team and Jake seems to embody everything that we are trying to build towards, so his growth is important to our future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, RonMexico said: Nope. Nor do I feel guilted into it by you. I have little to no emotional attachment to the team and it's players. They could trade everyone and I would still cheer for the team. The players are interchangeable to me. The team is stuck with him because he has no value. So they have no choice but to see if he can be molded into something else they didn't draft him for. Not the end of the world but I'm not very optimistic. In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy watching what Miller brings to the table. The only part of your post that rings true is your acknowledgement that you have no attachment to the team and its players. Your claim that a player with Jake's tools, age, progression and current productivity has no value is so obviously nonsensical that it is abundantly evident that you are here for the sole purpose of trolling the Canucks fans. Were you perhaps looking for HFBoards and took a wrong turn? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 6 hours ago, Me_ said: Even then... what we gave up, is a 1st. Nothing beyond that is measurable. If the Canucks miss the playoffs, the pick becomes a 2021 pick. The Canucks also traded a third rounder, thus measurable to some extent. 2 hours ago, Gaudette Celly said: This is called superstition, and typical of those whose lifestyle and retirement plan is based on buying 6/49. They'd rather have magic beans than a sure thing. Go for the mystery box, it might even get you something as good as what you give up, if yer lucky! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, WeneedLumme said: The only part of your post that rings true is your acknowledgement that you have no attachment to the team and its players. Your claim that a player with Jake's tools, age, progression and current productivity has no value is so obviously nonsensical that it is abundantly evident that you are here for the sole purpose of trolling the Canucks fans. Were you perhaps looking for HFBoards and took a wrong turn? No not all. I've never even been to that site. At a certain point I believe your potential passes you by and I think that's where we are at with Jake. I see a player who has replacement level ability and value. You don't. That doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make you wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 hours ago, RonMexico said: It's not unfair at all. He was a 6th overall pick and unfortunately that matters when you are developing at a snail's pace. I expect and expected more of a JT-like performance out of Jake. I'm trying to drink the Jake koolaid but it's weak and flavourless. All I meant from my comment was that if Jake came in as billed and lived up to the hype, the Canucks probably would have never needed to acquire Miller. I'm glad they did though as he looks to be worth every penny. The bolded is just nuts imo. I would LOVE a JT Miller and a Jake Virtanen that BOTH play like Miller does now. Good god...... 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 hours ago, RonMexico said: Confirmation bias doesn't prove anything though. For every Roussel or Ferland or heck even Burrows, there are hundreds who never make it off the ground floor. That is such a hfcanuck thing to type. All those inbred troglodytes spew that crap all day long. What a cesspool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WeneedLumme Posted December 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 12, 2019 On December 10, 2019 at 3:07 PM, RonMexico said: No not all. I've never even been to that site. At a certain point I believe your potential passes you by and I think that's where we are at with Jake. I see a player who has replacement level ability and value. You don't. That doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make you wrong. His productivity, hitting, takeaways, etc. are obviously middle six level at present, far better than replacement level. Objectively, you are clearly wrong. Do you perhaps have any actual metrics that support your position? Because claiming that a hard hitting, defensively responsible 20 goal 40 point forward (which is his current productivity pace) is replacement level is a statement only a troll or a simpleton would stand behind. 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 3 hours ago, WeneedLumme said: His productivity, hitting, takeaways, etc. are obviously middle six level at present, far better than replacement level. Objectively, you are clearly wrong. Do you perhaps have any actual metrics that support your position? Because claiming that a hard hitting, defensively responsible 20 goal 40 point forward (which is his current productivity pace) is replacement level is a statement only a troll or a simpleton would stand behind. I'm always left wanting more. I'm not trolling nor a simpleton either but thanks for the effort to talk down to me. Are you willing to double his salary or more? I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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