BPA Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 But but Miller cost a 1st. The 1st could have been the next McJesus!!!!! That bum Miller only has 31 points in 30 games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 27 minutes ago, BPA said: But but Miller cost a 1st. The 1st could have been the next McJesus!!!!! That bum Miller only has 31 points in 30 games. Thats technically true u know. Nobody knows yet. Is miller a good player? Absolutely. Is he worth a lottery pick? I don't think so. Hate on me all u waant. Thats how I see it. We don't know what we gave up till next year (assuming we miss playoffs this season) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 https://twitter.com/RobTheHockeyGuy/status/1204263982002888704?s=20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastPast Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, DontMessMe said: https://twitter.com/RobTheHockeyGuy/status/1204263982002888704?s=20 Is this what they have resorted to? Referencing 30 year old trades that are totally irrelevant ? If that pick lands at, say, 15th overall (middle of a realistic range) that's roughly a 60%* chance to yield a noteworthy player, and in that range there will be some more noteworthy than others.(Maybe Erik Karlsson, maybe Cody Ceci) The 71st they gave up is closer to a 1/10 chance so in combination there is ~36 % chance they yield nothing . I think an outcome like this is sold short when people look at the price paid. Of course there is still uncertainty as to where the pick lands but this serves to give some rough idea of what could potentially have been sacrificed. Although I suppose it could be said that what they really sacrificed is the pick as it would have fallen had the trade not taken place. * Probability estimated from past draft selections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 15 minutes ago, BlastPast said: Is this what they have resorted to? Referencing 30 year old trades that are totally irrelevant ? If that pick lands at, say, 15th overall (middle of a realistic range) that's roughly a 60%* chance to yield a noteworthy player, and in that range there will be some more noteworthy than others.(Maybe Erik Karlsson, maybe Cody Ceci) The 71st they gave up is closer to a 1/10 chance so in combination there is ~36 % chance they yield nothing . I think an outcome like this is sold short when people look at the price paid. Of course there is still uncertainty as to where the pick lands but this serves to give some rough idea of what could potentially have been sacrificed. Although I suppose it could be said that what they really sacrificed is the pick as it would have fallen had the trade not taken place. * Probability estimated from past draft selections. There is a chance we miss playoffs slightly and that pick wins the lottery. See Dallas Stars (drafting Heiskanen), Flyers (drafting Patrick). There is a possibility. The pick shouldve been permanently locked from lottery then I would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruilin96 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Everyone kept talking about the first round pick which is an unknown for atleast until June of 2020. Meanwhile, I took a look at who the Lightning grab with the 3rd round pick: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=214039 Don’t know anything about him, so I just do a quick summary base on stats. This is a 6 ft 3 18 year old goalie playing as a back-up in the SHL, putting up very good numbers. And look to have some NHL potential as a solid goalie. I would say as of right now, this is a good hockey trade for both sides. The Canucks get a player that we could use right away and fit in very well with the current core group. While the Lightning shed the salaries and got some pieces to work with for the future. I also suspect the Lightnings may a 1st to another team to acquire asset at the deadline. Whether that 1st is our first or theirs would be up to them to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 5 hours ago, DontMessMe said: There is a chance we miss playoffs slightly and that pick wins the lottery. See Dallas Stars (drafting Heiskanen), Flyers (drafting Patrick). There is a possibility. The pick shouldve been permanently locked from lottery then I would be fine. Or at least give Vancouver the option to give up the 2020 pick or 2021 like the Sens did. If Vancouver misses the playoffs and gets the 15th pick they have no choice but to keep it but it would be a problem if Vancouver is a lottery team again in 2021 and actually wins it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 12 hours ago, SilentSam said: We have done well in this trade, our first overall next season will be lottery exempt if we are in the playoffs,. Even then the luck in getting a first round pick to perform point wise in 2 years, as well as J.T. is already (and he could be an iron man on top of that) would be pure luck. JT is 3 birds in the hand presently,. That pick is one bird in the Bush 2 years from now. This player was built for this club as it is presently representing itself the opposition,. And he will probably be an asset to keep or move on for futures in 3 years. I can’t even, and will never dwell on this move or what that 1st round pick aims to be,. JT might even bring one back to us in 3years. Wonder what teams would be willing to pay for him this year if we put him to market and he agreed to go to a contender? Mortgage the entire house is my bet - a couple of firsts and a grade A prospect back. In 3 years id be happy to re-sign this guy long term if he continues the way he is - and if I had to choose would consider trading Horvat if we needed space or a blockbuster to bolster a position rather then Miller and I love Horvat. Like the iron man comment. This is already the best trade JB made to date - and a ballsy one at that. If Vegas showed us anything it is the difference between stars and blue chip good players is very thin - give them the primo minutes instead and they can do it. Seen it before with Stephen Wiesse in Florida. Middle six guy gets the minutes and produces on the low end scale of first line centers. Miller has exceeded that in every way - our best forward and MVP by far this year - whatever line needs a boost hes the guy that gives it that. I really wanted Stone when he came available having seen a fair amount of him live living near OTT. Miller is playing at least at his level right now - for almost half the cost. His next pay cheque might be too rich for us so yeah i could see us getting back a first and a third his last year as a rental. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamhuis Hip Check Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 12 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said: You are giving him credit Alf. I think he is just stupid......like...just not smart. But but but... he graduated magna cum laude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-P Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 hours ago, iinatcc said: Or at least give Vancouver the option to give up the 2020 pick or 2021 like the Sens did. If Vancouver misses the playoffs and gets the 15th pick they have no choice but to keep it but it would be a problem if Vancouver is a lottery team again in 2021 and actually wins it. There’s always risks involved in trades, you can’t protect yourself from everything. The thinking is we’ll make the playoffs this year or next year or both. That’s reasonable thinking IMO, you can’t rebuild forever. Getting a player like Miller In the middle of his prime and on a good contract with team control requires giving up something valuable. As long as he’s playing top 6 and both producing and playing a 200 ft game I think it’s definitely worth it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, J-P said: There’s always risks involved in trades, you can’t protect yourself from everything. The thinking is we’ll make the playoffs this year or next year or both. That’s reasonable thinking IMO, you can’t rebuild forever. Getting a player like Miller In the middle of his prime and on a good contract with team control requires giving up something valuable. As long as he’s playing top 6 and both producing and playing a 200 ft game I think it’s definitely worth it. i agree have always supported this trade and i think people should give their head a shake about what tampa bay gets back too many suggest nucks should be able to protect the 1st round pick traded away forever basically why would tampa do this deal if they never see their return until the nucks make the playoffs?? (ie nucks get indefinite lottery protection) the nucks bet on themselves and gave themselves 1 year cushion to make the playoffs seems fair and reasonable to me the trade is pointless for the nucks if they do not get a playoff spot within 2 years of the trade oh and also, why does everyone seem to assume the nucks were the only team speaking to tampa and could simply dictate terms to them pretty unlikely some other team was not sniffing out tampa players given their cap issues 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, DontMessMe said: Thats technically true u know. Nobody knows yet. Is miller a good player? Absolutely. Is he worth a lottery pick? I don't think so. Hate on me all u waant. Thats how I see it. We don't know what we gave up till next year (assuming we miss playoffs this season) Even then... what we gave up, is a 1st. Nothing beyond that is measurable. If the Canucks miss the playoffs, the pick becomes a 2021 pick. Edited December 10, 2019 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 12 hours ago, DontMessMe said: Thats technically true u know. Nobody knows yet. Is miller a good player? Absolutely. Is he worth a lottery pick? I don't think so. Hate on me all u waant. Thats how I see it. We don't know what we gave up till next year (assuming we miss playoffs this season) It's only a lottery pick if we miss the playoffs two years in a row. And even then the odds are low that it'll be a winning lottery pick (although who knows with our luck). Miller is contributing in a big way for us to not give up a lottery pick and he would be exactly what we want from that 1st round pick anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Me_ said: Even then... what we gave up, is a 1st. Nothing beyond that is measurable. If the Canucks miss the playoffs, the pick becomes a 2021 pick. U dont get it do you. What we are concerned with is the 21 pick. Im absolutely fine with giving them 15th overall selection either draft but what I am NOT ok with is lets say the 2021 pick becomes a top 3 pick cuz it won the lottery. See flyers and dallas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, theo5789 said: It's only a lottery pick if we miss the playoffs two years in a row. And even then the odds are low that it'll be a winning lottery pick (although who knows with our luck). Miller is contributing in a big way for us to not give up a lottery pick and he would be exactly what we want from that 1st round pick anyway. What you just said is why I am worried. Other than that, its fine. Just don't be a lottery pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 minute ago, DontMessMe said: What you just said is why I am worried. Other than that, its fine. Just don't be a lottery pick. IMO we make the playoffs this year, and (if not) certainly next year. If we don't though, that draft lottery in 2021 will be unbearable to wait for and watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastPast Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, DontMessMe said: U dont get it do you. What we are concerned with is the 21 pick. Im absolutely fine with giving them 15th overall selection either draft but what I am NOT ok with is lets say the 2021 pick becomes a top 3 pick cuz it won the lottery. See flyers and dallas. You can't be paralyzed with fear of a black swan that has a low chance ( ~2% maybe) of occurring. Being concerned is fine as that outcome would suck but give it an appropriate amount of concern . 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yung1 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) tbh Miller is performing pretty much as well as you hope a top 3-10 pick would perform right now. 1 PPG player. Relied upon defensively. 58% in the dot. Makes his linemates better. If you get that kind of player with 3rd overall you're probably quite happy. We have to miss the playoffs next year and the pick has to be top 2 for this trade to be even be considered bad. Both those things are extremely low probability. Edited December 10, 2019 by Yung1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Just now, Yung1 said: tbh Miller is performing pretty much as well as you hope a top 3-10 pick would perform right now. 1 PPG player. Relied upon defensively. 58% in the dot. Makes his linemates better. If you get that kind of player with 3rd overall you're probably quite happy. Good points. Plus, Miller is hard to play against. And he's on a really good contract for such a good player. If he was a young guy coming out of his ELC doing what he's doing now, he'd be looking at 8 million or more per season. Factor all these in together, and we basically stole a player. Hell the Leafs, who are not in a playoff spot right now, and might miss the playoffs, gave up their first just to dump Marlow. Teams trade their firsts at the TDLs for rentals in hopes of bettering their playoff chances. Great trade by JB. Well worth the (potential) cost. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 My only beef with this trade is that we shouldn't have had to make it in the first place. Miller is exactly what Virtanen should be. Instead he can barely even carry JT's jock strap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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