A Fair Criticism of Jim Benning

[kanucks25]

3 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Richardson was offered a deal but wanted term,

When has that ever stopped Benning from signing a depth veteran?

 

3 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Matthias was the softest 6’4 player in the NHL and failed to score more than 10 goals again after his 18 goal season here.

He was still a responsible veteran that could play center, doesn't really do anything to disprove my point. Veterans were acquired to shelter the kids, he was one that could have been kept for free.

 

4 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Beth Bartkowski said the 19 year old kid was the only player she didn't like. Benning didn't “leak” anything. 0-3 

Great, the mother of one of Benning's prized pro D-man acquisitions had an opinion, we should really care.

 

Fantastic rebuttal.

[canuck73_3]

4 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

When has that ever stopped Benning from signing a depth veteran?

 

He was still a responsible veteran that could play center, doesn't really do anything to disprove my point. Veterans were acquired to shelter the kids, he was one that could have been kept for free.

 

Great, the mother of one of Benning's prized pro D-man acquisitions had an opinion, we should really care.

 

Fantastic rebuttal.

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

When has that ever stopped Benning from signing a depth veteran?

He offered Santo a one year deal but he wanted two. He let him walk and traded for Vey instead. Santo discover in free agency nobody was interested in giving him a two year deal. McCann wasn't "forced in" he beat out Vey for a spot with his play in preseason.

 

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

He was still a responsible veteran that could play center, doesn't really do anything to disprove my point. Veterans were acquired to shelter the kids, he was one that could have been kept for free.

Free doesn't make you the best choice moving forward. Players are let go through free agency every year.

 

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

Great, the mother of one of Benning's prized pro D-man acquisitions had an opinion, we should really care.

 

Fantastic rebuttal.

Unfortunately management, who sees a lot more of the players, rather saw it the same way. Btw, if Guddy was a bottom pair d-man you'll have to explain ice time:

 

Regular season

 

Playoffs

 

[Honky Cat]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

Try this one:

 

Letting Richardson and Matthias walk for nothing (quality vets that could have "sheltered" the kids) and then McCann is thrust into an NHL centre role he's not ready for because we have no depth.

 

Management turns on McCann, leaks to the media that he has "attitude issues" when he inevitably struggles, and trades him along with a high 2nd round pick for a bottom-pairing D-man that they thought (for some reason, hard to say why, really makes you question what the hell their pro scouts are watching) was a top-4 guy.

 

Before being given up on, McCann was touted as a steal by the "draft guru" Benning. Fast-forward a few years later and he's a potential winger for Sidney Crosby.

 

Funny how things change.

It was a crappy trade that sent McCann to Florida,but this is the first time that I have heard that the 'management' leaked that he had attitude issues..?.Do you have a source for that?

Gudbranson was sought after by other GM's ..even by Mike Gillis.(what were his pro scouts thinking?)

 

I don't think that Benning wanted to give up on McCann,but he had to give to get...

 

[Bubble Man]

14 hours ago, oldnews said:

kudos on the litterbox drama -  mindless one-liners - lack of any analysis - presumption of correctness - and hard-headed determination to prejudge and hate the deal forever - regardless of "what he becomes".

 

'I will never rethink this deal no matter what MIller does, no matter what becomes of the pick spent!!'

 

You sure make a reasoned case.  Cool "2 way street" story.

I argued with you in the Luongo trade thread for years. You are the last person that should be telling me about etiquette He paid too big of a price regardless of what TJ Miller brings. His value at the time of the transaction is all that matters. The only place you will find support for that use of a 1st is right here. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Bubble Man

[canuck73_3]

6 minutes ago, Bubble Man said:

I argued with you in the Luongo trade thread for years. You are the last person that should be telling me about educate. He paid too big of a price regardless of what TJ Miller brings. His value at the time of the transaction is all that matters. The only place you will find support for that use of a 1st is right here. 

I see your issue with the trade you thought we traded a 1st and 3rd for an actor 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

He offered Santo a one year deal but he wanted two. He let him walk and traded for Vey instead. Santo discover in free agency nobody was interested in giving him a two year deal. McCann wasn't "forced in" he beat out Vey for a spot with his play in preseason.

Santo went on to put up 33 points in 79 games and wouldn't have cost Canucks a single pick to resigning him.  Vey cost Canucks a 2nd and put up worse numbers.  

 

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Free doesn't make you the best choice moving forward. Players are let go through free agency every year.

This statement would imply that Benning made the right choice by letting Richardson and Matthias go as UFA's?  With nothing to show for it at the time or today, i would state that it wasn't the correct decision.  

 

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Unfortunately management, who sees a lot more of the players, rather saw it the same way. Btw, if Guddy was a bottom pair d-man you'll have to explain ice time:

 

Edler gets #1 D ice time for Vancouver. does that equate to him having a #1 D value around the league?

 

Great you found a single season where the panthers lost Mitchell to injury, forcing guddy to play in a bigger role, and you label him more than he is....Haha, by that same logic I guess hutton is a top pairing D since he 2nd on Canucks roster this year.   Or does that logic only apply when you are using it as a cherry picking statement?

 

 

For the record (and even only including D who played greater than 40% of the reg seasons games) 

in 2017-18 season gudbranson was 5th on canucks blueline for ice time

in 2018-19 season gudbranson was 5th on canucks blueline for ice time

 

In 2014-15 season gudbranson was 5th on panthers blueline for ice time

In 2013-14 season gudbranson was 5th on panthers blueline for ice time

In 2012-13 season gudbranson was 6th on panthers blueline for ice time

In 2011-12 season gudbranson was 7th on panthers blueline for ice time

 

I guess if he quacks like a duck and looked like a duck.......then there was be a JB white knight somewhere trying to cherry pick some stats, to justify calling him a swan.....

[Bubble Man]

On 7/5/2019 at 5:32 PM, NUCKER67 said:

What's to complain about? Canucks went to Game 7 of the SCF 8 years ago. They played their last playoff game 4 years ago, and are already set to take another run this coming year. I feel good about where they're at, espeially seeing what's happening to some other teams (EDM, CBJ, WPG, etc). Canucks have added some real good, key players in Miller, Hughes, Myers and Benn. They had good goaltebnding last year from Makrstrom, and now have a good backup in Demko. Who knows what they can do this year. I'm confident they won't get pushed around like previous years.

 

So, Canucks took 4 years off without playoffs to rebuild, and theyr'e ready to have at 'er again - all without getting a Top 3 pick. To put that into perspective, the Oilers made the playoffs once in the last 13 years, and they got how many 1sts?

 

Great job Benning.  

Wow, there are a lot of assumptions here. We were the 9th worst team last year and you have automatically anointed them a playoff team without watching a single game? We still have zero room for error. A few key injuries and we are in the same place we were. We still don’t have even close to the depth we need. 

 

I actually hope we miss the playoffs the next 2 seasons and Tampa Bay wins the draft lottery so Jim can finally get the axe he so richly deserves. 

[spur1]

The only thing JB deserves is a raise. 

[smithers joe]

the new core will determine how well JB has done. mistakes aside, i love the supporting cast he has brought in, roussel, beagle, pearson, miller, leivo, motte, benn and stecher. 

when petey, brock, quinn, demko, juolevi, gaud and jake are fully developed and the rest of the next wave of prospects continue the building process, we’ll honestly be able to judge JB. bo, chris and alex were here and important to our development. 

we don’t know yet how myers will turn out, but time will tell. 

eriksson was a miss calculation. the biggest mistake was money and term. the idea was sound. a 30 goal scorer with boston, who had showed good chemistry with the sedins in international play. 

sutter’s money and term was a little excessive but when healthy, he gave the team something they didn’t really have. he was a very good defensive player with some offensive skill. 

vancouver fans are famous for wanting their team to play musical GM’s, coaches, goalies and skaters. it has been going on since 1970.

 

[mikeyman109]

On 7/1/2019 at 12:13 PM, Bertuzzi44ever said:

I’ve watched Tyler Myers in Kelowna and in buffalo and then with the jets so hundreds of games.

 

nice kid, stands out for obvious reasons, long reach which helps as a hockey player especially a dman, not consistent though, now overpaid and he’s going to be over exposed and will not like the travel.

 

myers is a 6m dollar dman that plays most times like a 3m dman with the potential of a 7 m d man.  He doesent use his size to advantage he has flashy skill that will make Canucks fans do their “whoaaaa” when seeing Bert bure  nazzy ep,  and hughes on that shift.

 

but he doesent do it enough like ristolainen. They both don’t and Myers doesent hit as well as ristolainen or as much. He’s good at being in the right spot but game and confidence dropped off faaaar after junior and year one in buffalo.

Sometimes its just about finding the right partner to play with for the kid to find success. Myers has been in Winnipeg and last season had to step up in his role and minutes when the other D got hurt. We need someone to play more solid minutes here and Hutton and Stecher were not cutting it. They had a better season last year but neither moved up the ladder that much thus the need to go out and get better potential players and the decision to let Hutton go with his Arbitration rights available and the cost could have been 4 mill for him. I believe the extra 2 million to get Myers is money well spent because his ceiling is higher than Hutton and he can play the bigger minutes. There's a reason so many were looking at the Jets players in free agency.

Travel in and out of Winnipeg is not a lot of fun either. I agree the travel on the west coast is brutal. Its been a major disadvantage for years. but i dont think Myers is the only player on the team that will have to endure or work through that. I think its a major reason Petey tailed off at the end of last season and also part of why Brock seems to tail off at the end of the season each year so far.

We dont need Myers to play like Chara,we just needed some D to take the workload off of Edler and Tanev so that they dont get injured as often. Myers and Benn will be able to take some of the hard minutes away from those two and this should result in a fresher D, less injuries, and a better effort in front of Marky.

Having a bit more size at the back end should result in less injuries for all. Its not about them shelling out the abuse.... its more about them surviving the abuse sent their way.

[mikeyman109]

On 7/5/2019 at 3:32 PM, NUCKER67 said:

What's to complain about? Canucks went to Game 7 of the SCF 8 years ago. They played their last playoff game 4 years ago, and are already set to take another run this coming year. I feel good about where they're at, espeially seeing what's happening to some other teams (EDM, CBJ, WPG, etc). Canucks have added some real good, key players in Miller, Hughes, Myers and Benn. They had good goaltebnding last year from Makrstrom, and now have a good backup in Demko. Who knows what they can do this year. I'm confident they won't get pushed around like previous years.

 

So, Canucks took 4 years off without playoffs to rebuild, and theyr'e ready to have at 'er again - all without getting a Top 3 pick. To put that into perspective, the Oilers made the playoffs once in the last 13 years, and they got how many 1sts?

 

Great job Benning.  

The issue here is that so many"fans" here have been fortunate to live through the Naslund, to Sedin era and think this is how it goes all the time. That GMs' can always attain or develop players like we have for the last 20 years.I know there are enough of us on here that started watching when Pat Quinn was a player not a coach and GM. Every team goes through Ups and downs and four years is not a long time to miss the playoffs at all. Look at what Detroit had to go through in the 21 team league until they finally drafted a 18 yr old Yzerman or Quebec(that became Colorado) that drafted, i believe someone can correct  me if i am wrong but i think it was 5 years in a row at last in the league. Regardless teams go through down cycles when the talent changeover happens.

We have been lucky and privileged to watch our team make the playoffs most of the last 20 years. I think once we get going again this season it could be the beginning of another 20 years. As a kid born in the mid 60s there hasn't been a lot to cheer for in the last 50 years. a few grey cups, one NASL championship and three finals appearances. Not a lot of major sports accomplishments. One thing i have learned is every team, regardless of city, manager, players or fans will have their ups and downs. Its not accepting failure so much as understanding that we will rise again. The Blues took 52 years to win their cup. Toronto hasn't been to the finals in the last 50 years or seen their team in the finals in color.

As for what Benning has done, built a great core, fixed a sad sack D core, added a few needed pieces while adding a few not so needed. At this point this season and next are the ones to decide what he has done. There were way too many handcuff issues he was dealt to start with. I will watch again this season, my 50th and cheer when we score and win and throw my hat when we lose but I will know we are on the cusp of better times. I am going to enjoy the ride

 

[ilduce39]

7 hours ago, Bubble Man said:

I actually hope we miss the playoffs the next 2 seasons and Tampa Bay wins the draft lottery so Jim can finally get the axe he so richly deserves. 

There it is.  No surprise.

 

It’s more about being right than being a fan of the team. 

[oldnews]

7 hours ago, Bubble Man said:

Wow, there are a lot of assumptions here. We were the 9th worst team last year and you have automatically anointed them a playoff team without watching a single game? We still have zero room for error. A few key injuries and we are in the same place we were. We still don’t have even close to the depth we need. 

 

I actually hope we miss the playoffs the next 2 seasons and Tampa Bay wins the draft lottery so Jim can finally get the axe he so richly deserves. 

the smarmy mentality in a nutshell.

[Bubble Man]

6 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

There it is.  No surprise.

 

It’s more about being right than being a fan of the team. 

I can’t think of anything that annoys me more than a “fan” complaining about another fan. Mind your own business. I’ll follow my team the way I please. 

 

 

[oldnews]

Just now, Bubble Man said:

I can’t think of anything that annoys me more than a “fan” complaining about another fan. Mind your own business. I’ll follow my team the way I please. 

 

 

You're posting on a *public* message board.

[spur1]

11 minutes ago, Bubble Man said:

I can’t think of anything that annoys me more than a “fan” complaining about another fan. Mind your own business. I’ll follow my team the way I please. 

 

 

Thank our lucky stars your team is not the Canucks.

[Bubble Man]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

the smarmy mentality in a nutshell.

 

14 hours ago, oldnews said:

kudos on the litterbox drama -  mindless one-liners - lack of any analysis

There is no bigger hypocrite on any Canucks related board. Your condescending replies are legendary. If I cared, I could go back years and years of you being ridiculously wrong and just litter these boards with your garbage. Call it Old News contradictions talk. 

[Baggins]

11 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Santo went on to put up 33 points in 79 games and wouldn't have cost Canucks a single pick to resigning him.  Vey cost Canucks a 2nd and put up worse numbers.  

Vey had potential. Santo was what he was. It doesn't change the fact he was offered a one year deal and turned it down. He overvalued himself as shown in free agency. Nobody offered him the two year deal he was seeking. How it works out is hindsight.

 

11 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

This statement would imply that Benning made the right choice by letting Richardson and Matthias go as UFA's?  With nothing to show for it at the time or today, i would state that it wasn't the correct decision.  

So GM's should sign players they'd rather move on from purely so they don't walk for nothing? I wonder where all those UFA's appear from every July 1st......

 

11 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Edler gets #1 D ice time for Vancouver. does that equate to him having a #1 D value around the league?

It certainly doesn't make him a bottom pair d-man.

 

11 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Great you found a single season where the panthers lost Mitchell to injury, forcing guddy to play in a bigger role, and you label him more than he is....Haha, by that same logic I guess hutton is a top pairing D since he 2nd on Canucks roster this year.   Or does that logic only apply when you are using it as a cherry picking statement?

Explain the logic of Guddy's playoff ice time then.

 

11 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

For the record (and even only including D who played greater than 40% of the reg seasons games) 

in 2017-18 season gudbranson was 5th on canucks blueline for ice time

in 2018-19 season gudbranson was 5th on canucks blueline for ice time

 

In 2014-15 season gudbranson was 5th on panthers blueline for ice time

In 2013-14 season gudbranson was 5th on panthers blueline for ice time

In 2012-13 season gudbranson was 6th on panthers blueline for ice time

In 2011-12 season gudbranson was 7th on panthers blueline for ice time

 

I guess if he quacks like a duck and looked like a duck.......then there was be a JB white knight somewhere trying to cherry pick some stats, to justify calling him a swan.....

It was said we traded for a bottom pair d-man. We didn't. We traded for a top 4 d-man. How it turned out is irrelevant to why we traded for him at the time. Again, that's called hindsight.

 

 

[Baggins]

8 hours ago, Bubble Man said:

Wow, there are a lot of assumptions here. We were the 9th worst team last year and you have automatically anointed them a playoff team without watching a single game? We still have zero room for error. A few key injuries and we are in the same place we were. We still don’t have even close to the depth we need. 

 

I actually hope we miss the playoffs the next 2 seasons and Tampa Bay wins the draft lottery so Jim can finally get the axe he so richly deserves. 

Another that enjoys losing. You really do want to become Edmonton. AT some point you need to surround your young stars that will help the team make that next step. Otherwise you just keep wasting years of those young stars playing a waiting. Creating a cycle of losing.