[Proposal] Revamp of Third Line

[BigTramFan]

I am happy with the moves JB has made, but been missing hockey and just been thinking about options for the Nucks...

 

My guess is that our third line will be Baer-Sutter-Virt.

 

Having both Sutter and Beagle effectively means that VAN has two shut down lines. Even with some creative wingers on his flanks Sutter is where the play goes to die. I think we need to start transitioning to 3 legit scoring lines. That starts with moving Sutter for a driver of play.

 

How about these trades and signings to get there?

 

To WPG: Sutter

To VAN: Perreault

 

WPG need a third line center quite badly, one that is defensively strong and can take tough matchups. Sutter is a good fit. They move Perreault’s contract ($4.125m AAV) to fit Sutters $4.375m. Both contracts finish in 2 more years.

 

With Sutter gone, I feel that Gaudette is not yet ready to center the third line and needs time to develop his game. Miller is an option as 3C but I want him in our top 6. So let’s sign UFA Derick Brassard to a one year deal. Give us time to see if Gaudette can improve and take the 3C next season. If he can’t then we get the opportunity to see how Brassard works in our system. If neither works out then we have bought some time to either bolster our top 6 with Podz/Hogs and move Miller to 3C, or sign a UFA such as Charlie Coyle.

 

2019 UFA signing: Brassard, $3.5m for 1 year

 

Brassard is looking for a one year deal to prove that he is still legit and show he can be a 50pt+ player. His camp is likely looking for $4m+, but with his recent dip in form 3.5 should get it done. No team will pay him $4m until he proves he still has it. It’s a fair deal for both sides. Other landing options for Brassard may include the Oilers, so pretty sure he’d rather come to VAN!

 

With Perreault on the roster we have an excess of LW depth. IMO this makes Baer the odd one out, and with the signing of Brassard we will need to clear Baer’s salary to be cap compliant.

 

To OTT: Baertschi

To VAN: 2020 4th round pick

 

 

Forward lineup becomes:

 

Ferland Pettersson Boeser

Pearson Horvat Miller

Perreault Brassard Virtanen

Roussel Beagle Motte

(Leivo)

 

I think that third line looks much more offense oriented. If nothing else it’s likely to be healthier too!

 

I don’t think JB will do this, but what do you think?

[Drakrami]

Perreault and Brassard may not be upgrades over Baertschi and Sutter you know. Especially Brassard, 5 NHL teams over the past 4 years and none has bothered to keep him. 

[DrJockitch]

Salary cap waiver?

[smithers joe]

i’ld like to see the team play as is before moves are made. green now has options. we might have 2 scoring lines and 2 checking lines until pod, hog and lind make the team. 

gaudette, hoglander and lind may make a good 3rd line, when they are ready. that is why we say, have patience, stick to the plan. 

[Putgolzin]

I've been thinking the same thing, although I would do it differently using the guys we already have.

Obviously Green loves legit NHL'ers who can play a shutdown game. I would love to see one elite shutdown line including both Sutter and Beagle. That way we've got a faceoff guy to back up the guy getting waved out.

Next I would create a kid/development line because Green is going to have a line he only plays 7 minutes a night.

So essentially three potent lines that get most of the minutes.

Something like this -

 

Ferland Pettersson Boeser

Pearson Horvat Miller

Baertschi/Roussel Beagle Sutter

Leivo/Goldobin Gaudette Virtanen

 

[nuck-lifer]

Depending on who they play I like moving Miller to 3C with Baer-Leivo/JV if they want to balance out their line up for offense.

If they have San Jose, Vegas, Toronto etc.. I don't mind them running 2 shutdown centers to offset a good top 9 from another team.

Whatever it takes to win, but would like to see how Sutter does when and if he can remain healthy with a deeper lineup.

[Dixon Ward]

I don't think Perrault and brassard are a big upgrade at this point.

 

I think it's funny that everybody complained that we are a team of 3rd liners and now that we have more depth speed and skill we think our 3rd liners aren't good enough. 

 

Bo, Petey, Boeser, Miller guaranteed top 6

 

Ferland, Pearson, Baertschi, Virtanen, Goldobin fighting for 2 spots in top6.

 

Sutter, Beagle and Gaudette for bottom 6 center.

 

Rousel, Motte, Leivo, Macewen, Eriksson, Schaller fighting for bottom 6 roles.

 

Podkolzin, hoglander, Madden, Lind, etc.. waiting in the wings.

 

This will be a hard fought training camp with a bunch of legit nhlers fighting for their lives.  Should be awesome and produce a tough, fast, hard working team that I can't wait to watch. 

 

This is why the Seahawks are good.  Competition in training camp and professionals fighting for jobs.  Benning has tried to do this when he sent Gagner down and waived Corrado.   This year it might be Schaller? Eriksson? Someone else?

[Jaku]

7 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

To WPG: Sutter

To VAN: Perreault

I'm extremely speculative about this. I don't think the Jets have any interest in a deal of this sort involving Perreault. If anything they're trying to move Perreault to open cap space to sign Laine and Connor. 

 

Brandon Sutter being an NHL calibre player is debatable at this point. He's not a great skater, his advanced stats are pretty bad. He's a black hole of offense, in this NHL as a 3rd center a team needs a top 9 rather than top six - botton six. Brandon Sutter is a 4C at best, maybe. 

 

At this point it's likely he owns negative value and isn't a tradable asset on his own. 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Jaku

[nux_win]

3 hours ago, Jaku said:

I'm extremely speculative about this. I don't think the Jets have any interest in a deal of this sort involving Perreault. If anything they're trying to move Perreault to open cap space to sign Laine and Connor. 

 

Brandon Sutter being an NHL calibre player is debatable at this point. He's not a great skater, his advanced stats are pretty bad. He's a black hole of offense, in this NHL as a 3rd center a team needs a top 9 rather than top six - botton six. Brandon Sutter is a 4C at best, maybe. 

 

At this point it's likely he owns negative value and isn't a tradable asset on his own. 

I respectfully disagree.  I think that Sutter is a bona-fide NHLer.  And not just a fringe NHLer, he can actually help our team.  I'd like to keep him on the team and see what he can do.  He's not that old and when healthy he is a useful player.  He's had some really bad luck with injuries but I still think he has some good hockey in him.  I also think that he's not a bad skater for his size, and while he is definitely better at the defensive side of the game (not that there is anything wrong with that) he even has flashes of offence from time to time.  I want to see him play when he is healthy and I think that he can contribute to this team in a positive way as a 3rd line center if he can.  Go Canucks Go!

[canucklehead44]

8 hours ago, nuck-lifer said:

Depending on who they play I like moving Miller to 3C with Baer-Leivo/JV if they want to balance out their line up for offense.

If they have San Jose, Vegas, Toronto etc.. I don't mind them running 2 shutdown centers to offset a good top 9 from another team.

Whatever it takes to win, but would like to see how Sutter does when and if he can remain healthy with a deeper lineup.

I agree with this, and perhaps double shifting Miller at first line LW as Ferland is the type of player you want to keep at around 13 minutes per game. The lineup I like with zone starts)

Ferland/Miller EP40 Boeser (80/20)

Pearson Horvat Leivo (40/60)

Baertschi Miller Virtanen (60/40)

Motte Beagle Sutter (20/80)

 

[rawkdrummer]

double shift? this isn't beer league hockey

Edited August 8, 2019 by rawkdrummer

[BigTramFan]

17 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

Salary cap waiver?

Huh?

[BigTramFan]

Thanks for the critique all.

 

Its not that Perreault and Brassard would be major upgrades - and nor would you expect them to be since we trade the existing players for one of them and sign an as yet unsigned UFA at similar salary for the other. But my OP was more about thinking how we can turn our 3rd line into a more offense orientated line. As I said above, it’s more likely to be a healthier third line for a start!

 

Moving Miller to 3C is one idea, but unless you double shift him as suggested above, then the move just weakens our top 6 - which we should NOT do at this stage.

 

Perhaps my thinking is too early, maybe we just need to bed in the new look top 6 and only once we are happy with it then we look to improve the third line. Or maybe Baer-Sutter-Virt will surprise me!

 

Cheers

[kloubek]

I think we need to give both Sutter and Baer this offseason to get back to 100%, then see what they can do. I feel both are still capable of performing the roles they will be asked to play.

[DrJockitch]

6 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Huh?

You have traded Sutter in an almost salary neutral deal and added Brassard for 3.5 when we are up against the cap.

You have now added another forward to a core that was already bursting with too many bodies.

 

I have been promoting three scoring lines and to do that you need to get Sutter off the line, he is where offence goes to die.  As a rebuilding team I think we should be doing this with youth though, not more used up vets and UFA signings.

Edited August 8, 2019 by DrJockitch

[IBatch]

TG already has the middle six guys to make three scoring lines, he just has to be willing to move Sutter down to Beagles line - play him with LE and we should have to most expensive fourth line in the league ha ha.   Then play Miller between Bear and JV.  Or Pearson and JV and Ferland can play the deterrent banger with EP and Boeser.  Also this allows us to play Goldobin.  I get where the OP is going, do we really need two checking lines and given the glut of middle six players we currently have why not make three scoring lines out of them... I agree that offense dies on Sutters stick.   Couldn’t imagine anyone enjoying playing against LE Sutters and Beagle.   Injuries will occur.  This time it won’t matter...reminds me of Vegas - a team made up of very good third liners that are capable of moving up as needed.  Except we also have EP, Horvat and Boeser where as they did not .  Of course now they have legitimate top line guys ...

[BigTramFan]

6 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

You have traded Sutter in an almost salary neutral deal and added Brassard for 3.5 when we are up against the cap.

You have now added another forward to a core that was already bursting with too many bodies.

 

I have been promoting three scoring lines and to do that you need to get Sutter off the line, he is where offence goes to die.  As a rebuilding team I think we should be doing this with youth though, not more used up vets and UFA signings.

Firstly there are no cap concerns with the OP. I think you missed the bit where Baer is traded.

 

In summary...Add Perreault + Brassard + 4th. Take away Sutter + Baer.

 

Cap wise = + 4.125 + 3.5 - 4.375 - 3.367 = -0.117m

 

So we clear a little cap.

 

Regarding your comment about promoting youth, I would like to see that too but the only youth we have ready to step in now and center the third line is Gaudette. He’s not exactly a playmaker. And based on last year he has a long way to go to be a difference maker at the NHL level. I would prefer to have him playing top minutes in the AHL for at least one more season.

 

This is just my opinion. I can see your POV if you think we should just play Gaud as Canucks 3C and let him develop.

[BigTramFan]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

TG already has the middle six guys to make three scoring lines, he just has to be willing to move Sutter down to Beagles line - play him with LE and we should have to most expensive fourth line in the league ha ha.   Then play Miller between Bear and JV.  Or Pearson and JV and Ferland can play the deterrent banger with EP and Boeser.  Also this allows us to play Goldobin.  

This is possible, but moving Miller to 3C will weaken our Top 6.

 

If you have a third line of Baer-Miller-Virt then you are relying on either Goldy or Loui to play in our top 6, e.g.

 

Ferland Pettersson Boeser

Pearson Horvat Goldobin/LE

 

I am am not in favour of that!

 

I would rather just keep a third line of Baer-Sutter-Virt and maintain a strong top 6 that includes Miller.

 

The OP was aimed at revamping our third line without weakening our top 6.

[DrJockitch]

2 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

Firstly there are no cap concerns with the OP. I think you missed the bit where Baer is traded.

 

In summary...Add Perreault + Brassard + 4th. Take away Sutter + Baer.

 

Cap wise = + 4.125 + 3.5 - 4.375 - 3.367 = -0.117m

 

So we clear a little cap.

 

Regarding your comment about promoting youth, I would like to see that too but the only youth we have ready to step in now and center the third line is Gaudette. He’s not exactly a playmaker. And based on last year he has a long way to go to be a difference maker at the NHL level. I would prefer to have him playing top minutes in the AHL for at least one more season.

 

This is just my opinion. I can see your POV if you think we should just play Gaud as Canucks 3C and let him develop.

I think we get too much into labeling 1-4 lines.  

Youth would also include Goldy who could take a more play making role on the line where Gaudette is more of a shooter/net crasher.  They would really be the core of an all around 4th line in terms of minutes and could play fairly sheltered minutes.

You could have an excellent shutdown line with Beagle and Sutter on right wing.  If Sutter could stay healthy and garner some interest we may be able to lose him at deadline.

Gaudette looked like a rookie that belonged in the NHL.  Is he a completed project?  No.  He did look like a quality rookie.  Most rookies look more like him than EP.  Being in Utica likely wouldn't hurt him and may or may not help him.

Should be a really interesting season.  Looking forward to seeing what happens.

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

This is possible, but moving Miller to 3C will weaken our Top 6.

 

If you have a third line of Baer-Miller-Virt then you are relying on either Goldy or Loui to play in our top 6, e.g.

 

Ferland Pettersson Boeser

Pearson Horvat Goldobin/LE

 

I am am not in favour of that!

 

I would rather just keep a third line of Baer-Sutter-Virt and maintain a strong top 6 that includes Miller.

 

The OP was aimed at revamping our third line without weakening our top 6.

I agree.  My point was we do have the players already on the team to create a third scoring line - and as the OP states offense dies when the puck hits Sutters stick which I happen to agree with.  Move Sutter to the fourth line and use what we have rather then bringing in more had beens that won’t get more points then LE or Goldodin anyways.   I see Miller on the third line only if and when Sutter goes down (which seems likely at this point) - and TG won’t play the line the same way once that happens. We’d have balanced scoring through the top three lines and won’t have to rely on one or two lines for offense.  Which happens to win series once the playoffs start, the whistle is put away and star players start to take constant abuse.