[Report] Don Cherry Fired

[smokes]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Don Cherry said nothing wrong. He said something that many people can agree with and not agree with. It's the beauty of freedom of speech. Dumbest reason to fire someone. Poppies are a Canadian tradition. If you come to Canada then why not respect it's traditions?

[Chicken.]

1 minute ago, peaches5 said:

Racism is a little ambiguous with its definition. It used to be a lot more black and white but nowadays things like a nationality and regional culture are considered a race. Him hating on Russians is racist. He is 100% racist to other nationalities and cultures that are not Canadian. Him saying there needs to be more Canadians on their team! is racist. He has gotten away with this for years. 

Every hockey team needs more Canadians.. I said it  dare I say Canadian hockey players are on average better than other countries’ players.. is that racist or am i grasping 

[Dr. Crossbar]

8 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I think it's actually quite clear what racism is and that what ends up happening in situations like these is comments are said that many agree with, and then they hear their opinions are discriminatory and racist, and instead of confronting their own internal racism as possibly being so, they dig their heels in and cry freedom of speech and other red herrings.

I'm not going to invalidate what you're saying at all. You do have a valid point. I do agree that it's all about going inward and taking self-responsibility instead of looking for a villain. I think racists project others to be racists ... they have to because they're racists.

 

Where I differ is in your absolute clarity in what racism is ... especially in an age when common sense is on the decline to make such assumptions.

[awalk]

1 hour ago, VanIsleNuckFan said:

 

What do you think the term toxic masculinity is? Or the ilk of feminism that is prominently pushing the anti man ideal. A young white boy is on the bottom of this totem pole. My whole point was not that YOU think this way, but that you not being aware of or having experience with this is privileged for YOU. (Did not mean to antagonize) My larger point that I claimed you missed is that any talk of anyone being better or worse than anyone else based on race or gender was just as bad as any other. Its a slippery slope, and I am seeing the tip of the iceberg. A generation of men raised by women to be fair and idealistic, only to be blamed for these issues they had nothing to do with!

 

I have talked to very intelligent women about how for instance when this hypocrisy exists, for instance men with breast cancer being turned away from the breast cancer organization because they are men. In response I get from these women, "yes, but its our turn now"

 

To write me off, especially claiming that your subjective point of view relates to a general one, where I can point out time and time again where masculinity is being attacked, in the ever increasing feminizing of the west is the laughable and misguided part.

 

Love that every response from you was purposefully antagonizing..thanks for the discourse. That being said, I typically like your posts.

 

I get that this is getting way off topic. This is all a divisive subject.

You've come a far way from my original post, which was that it's better to protect rather than denigrate immigrants and minority groups, and I find the views you are diving into to not only be misguided but dangerous, and I'm not sorry about that. But yes it's moving away from the point so let's just drop it. I've learned we can only change our own minds.

[gttxc]

12 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

This is something I've thought too. And not from a judgmental standpoint, but to me racism is & should be a really serious charge. 

 

I'm curious here about people's definitions aswell.

Blanket prejudice of race(or any group, I think the definition has evolved to this), for better or worse.  Whether it is cultivated within the mind, spoken, or acted upon.

 

  Also, I think it’s important to understand that racism can be a subtle, natural, attribute with horrifying consequences.   Because of this it needs to be watched carefully by the individual and society as a whole.  To what is to befall the offender I’m not sure, but to be fired from a show you were questionably qualified for is no over reaction.

 

Regardless of the above, hockey night in Canada is not platform to be broaching subjects like this.  It’s a family program designed to bring folks together, not plant seeds of division in the most impressionable of viewership.

[Jester13]

12 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

I'm not going to invalidate what you're saying at all. You do have a valid point. I do agree that it's all about going inward and taking self-responsibility instead of looking for a villain. I think racists project others to be racists ... they have to because they're racists.

 

Now this is claim I'd love to hear your reasoning for.

 

Quote

 

Where I differ is in your absolute clarity in what racism is ... especially in an age when common sense is on the decline to make such assumptions.

rac·ism

/ˈrāˌsizəm/

Learn to pronounce

noun

1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 

What about the standard definition do you disagree with?

[peaches5]

11 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

Every hockey team needs more Canadians.. I said it  dare I say Canadian hockey players are on average better than other countries’ players.. is that racist or am i grasping 

Based on Sweden's population they produce more hockey players than Canada. 

 

Anytime a Canadian does something he defends them or doesn't call them out anytime a Russian or European does something he just attacks relentlessly. "You wouldn't see a canadian boy do that!" 

[BPA]

16 minutes ago, smokes said:

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Don Cherry said nothing wrong. He said something that many people can agree with and not agree with. It's the beauty of freedom of speech. Dumbest reason to fire someone. Poppies are a Canadian tradition. If you come to Canada then why not respect it's traditions?

It's OK if he did his speech on his own time. However, he is a TV personality.   He cannot say stuff like that on the air as it probably goes against Company (Sportsnet) policy.  Imagine that you are the spokesperson of a large firm (Microsoft for example) and said stuff similar to what Cherry said.  Do you not think there would be repercussions?

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

Would love to see Brian Burke take over Coaches Corner. 

[HerrDrFunk]

43 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Not at all what I'm saying. Nice try though. Just because you think it's weird doesn't mean it is.

Then what do you mean by attributing a symbol that represents the sacrifices Canada and it’s veterans have made in war to shutting up people who you don’t agree with?

Edited November 12, 2019 by HerrDrFunk

[Sbriggs]

21 minutes ago, smokes said:

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Don Cherry said nothing wrong. He said something that many people can agree with and not agree with. It's the beauty of freedom of speech. Dumbest reason to fire someone. Poppies are a Canadian tradition. If you come to Canada then why not respect it's traditions?

What Don Cherry said was racist to many Canadians and he has said many racist things over the years. If you don't believe that then when your at work go tell some of your companies customers those kinda views and see how fast your boss fires your ass. Freedom of speech gives Rogers the right to send him packing for his views while working and earning money from the very customers he offended. If you come to Canada you do NOT have to take part in our traditions, thats why many new immigrants come here and especially why our freedoms are so important. Feel free to ask our service members how important the freedoms they fought for are and If you don't agree or like those freedoms we also give you the freedom to leave.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Sbriggs

[HerrDrFunk]

44 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Did he specify color ?

 

He was stating the obvious, which is a lot of people don't wear poppies, a lot of people immigrating here don't know traditions, customs, etc. That again is stating the obvious. Its something right infront of you but to speak up opens you up to many unflattering labels.

 

Granted you can't really use HNIC as a forum for this its not really appropriate but it was done. I suspect he was a solid 10 years past his expiration in terms of coachs corner and this was overplayed and used to move on from Don.

 

 

How does Cherry know who’s an immigrant or not?

[Dr. Crossbar]

3 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

Now this is claim I'd love to hear your reasoning for.

I don't have to explain it to some guy on a message board. I already know your position by how you framed your wording. You didn't come back with anything intelligent other than a deflection. I won't answer something you should be doing the heavy lifting on to make your point.

[Guest]

One thing is for sure, he's not afraid to speak his mind.  Sometimes that's good and sometimes that's bad.

 

Like I said in my earlier post, he's said way more controversial stuff in the past, its just that before his comments stayed with the people who watched HNIC. Now they spread everywhere, even to people who didn't originally watch the show. And now they can all voice their opinion on it.

 

Just see this video, he said he bunch of stuff but still kept his job. Our society has changed a lot. 

 

 

 

 

[Smashian Kassian]

15 minutes ago, gttxc said:

Blanket prejudice of race(or any group, I think the definition has evolved to this), for better or worse.  Whether it is cultivated within the mind, spoken, or acted upon.

 

  Also, I think it’s important to understand that racism can be a subtle, natural, attribute with horrifying consequences.   Because of this it needs to be watched carefully by the individual and society as a whole.  To what is to befall the offender I’m not sure, but to be fired from a show you were questionably qualified for is no over reaction.

 

Regardless of the above, hockey night in Canada is not platform to be broaching subjects like this.  It’s a family program designed to bring folks together, not plant seeds of division in the most impressionable of viewership.

 

I really appreciate your response. 

 

I agree about with the 'horrifying consequences' point. Which is why I take this serious. I think is a great post that I generally agree with. 

 

Agree completely HNIC is a family program. Whether Cherry is qualified or not is up for debate. My personal opinion would be that, he absolutely was but perhaps no longer is. He's very old, senile & ignorant. But he's an icon and has done good things in the past that shouldn't be glossed over. I'm fine with him being off TV but I acknowledge both sides to Cherry.

 

Prejudice is a keyword in racism, & perhaps that's more-so where I'm curious. According to Google:

Quote

preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience

 

This is really where my original question comes from I suppose.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Smashian Kassian

[Sbriggs]

8 minutes ago, BPA said:

It's OK if he did his speech on his own time. However, he is a TV personality.   He cannot say stuff like that on the air as it probably goes against Company (Sportsnet) policy.  Imagine that you are the spokesperson of a large firm (Microsoft for example) and said stuff similar to what Cherry said.  Do you not think there would be repercussions?

If any of my employees said that to my customers they'd be gone on the spot, no explanation needed

[nucklehead]

5 hours ago, Jaimito said:

There are many ways to remember and honor the war dead.  No one in US wears them except the hockey guys. Majority have no clue what it means.  But Americans are big on veterans day.  Each person can pay their respects in their own way. 

 

The whole argument/rant by Don was so stupid.  Wearing a poppy or not means nothing. Acknowledging the war and cost of lives is meaningful and showing the surviving vets some respect is proper.   Attacking immigrants is just racist and ignorant. He could have used his pulpit in a much more effective way. But no, he likes to antagonize because "he tells it like it is". 

 

For current and future generations, they need to understand why wars were fought. Many of the freedoms we have now have actually came much later after the WWII. Black and white Americans did not go fight racism when they killed Nazis in Europe, or the Japanese in Pacific.  They fought becuase their country drafted them or felt the need to enlist because their country or allies were in danger.  Many jews on refugee ships were actually turned away by US, only to be slaughtered in nazi concentration camps.  Returning black soldiers from WWII could not go to the same restaurants or washrooms as white people and also can't vote.   They didn't go to wars to fight for freedom in their own land.  It was freedom from the invaders. 

Even after WWII, France was unwilling to give up their colonies in Indochina.  A country that surrendered to Nazis in less than a month, still felt they were superior to Asians. 

 

It took decades of civil rights action and protests to get the freedoms we have now for all, which used to belong only to a few. Women had to fight for it too.  Glorification of war without some tough discussions doesn't make us a better society.   

Talk about telling it like it is. A lot of perspective has been lost over time in favor of a reimagined reality.  

[Jester13]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

I don't have to explain it to some guy on a message board. I already know your position by how you framed your wording. You didn't come back with anything intelligent other than a deflection. I won't answer something you should be doing the heavy lifting on to make your point.

I'm merely using the Socratic method to get you to dig deeper when you make a claim. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

6 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Then what do you mean by attributing a symbol that represents the sacrifices Canada has made in war to shutting up people who you don’t agree with?

People need to muster the courage of our veterans, be fearless in the fight, and realize the enemy won't stop until our freedome is silenced. 

 

I'm confident those reading this post know who the enemy really is. 

 

 

[riffraff]

2 hours ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

 

 

what the &^@# is this linden17 are you a racist person too? do you have a &^@# in issue with immigrants?  do you even know what they are complaining about? no then shut the &^@# up.