qwijibo Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) On 12/9/2019 at 12:24 PM, gameburn said: But, we all do care who plays now. We have somewhere between 15 and 19 NHL caliber forwards hanging around now. If it weren't for the CAP and the waiver complication, this would be like the depth of the Montreal teams of the early 1970s -- i.e., something to celebrate. Obviously, this isn't 1975. And the unresolved mess that is Eriksson haunts the team and bothers a lot of the fans. Uhm no. Those Montreal teams were full of hall of famers and were some of the most dominant teams in NHL history. The Canucks have some nice pieces for sure. But comparing them to the 70’s Habs isn’t remotely accurate Edited December 10, 2019 by qwijibo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Just now, qwijibo said: Uhm no. Those Montreal teams were full of hall of gamers and were some of the most dominant teams in NHL history. The Canucks have some nice pieces for sure. But comparing them to the 70’s Habs isn’t remotely accurate Unless we win five cups over the next decade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, Alflives said: Unless we win five cups over the next decade! Yeah. Unless that. Which would actually be a much more impressive feat given the parity in the salary cap era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 minute ago, qwijibo said: Yeah. Unless that. Which would actually be a much more impressive feat given the parity in the salary cap era I will settle for three Cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gameburn Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 hours ago, qwijibo said: Uhm no. Those Montreal teams were full of hall of famers and were some of the most dominant teams in NHL history. The Canucks have some nice pieces for sure. But comparing them to the 70’s Habs isn’t remotely accurate You're right of course: hall of famers with a string of cups we don't have. Obviously. But we do have a lot of forwards capable of playing in the NHL. Baertschi, Goldobin, maybe Graovac -- these guys could make some other teams. And there is Eriksson, the odd man out to add to that list. We got rid of players too that made other teams -- Gagner and Granlund come to mind. Call it unsustainable depth or bad asset management, or just plain evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 On 12/9/2019 at 12:09 PM, Viper007 said: $0 Dollar and 0 Cents. iTS A DEAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) On 12/9/2019 at 12:24 PM, gameburn said: But, we all do care who plays now. We have somewhere between 15 and 19 NHL caliber forwards hanging around now. If it weren't for the CAP and the waiver complication, this would be like the depth of the Montreal teams of the early 1970s -- i.e., something to celebrate. Obviously, this isn't 1975. And the unresolved mess that is Eriksson haunts the team and bothers a lot of the fans. The 1970s Canadiens? Dear lord... 70s Canadiens --> Present Day Canucks Counterpart Ken Dryden --> Nobody Guy Lafleur --> Nobody Guy Lapointe --> (maybe) Quinn Hughes (if lucky) Pete Mahovlich --> Brock Boeser Yvan Cournoyer --> Elias Petterson (if lucky) Steve Shutt --> Nobody Larry Robinson --> Nobody Serge Savard --> Nobody Bob Gainey -- > Nobody Henri Richard --> Nobody Doug Jarvis --> Nobody (maybe Brandon Sutter on his best day) Mario Tremblay --> Nobody (mayyybe Ferland?) Yvon Lambert --> JT Miller (slightly better) Jacques Lemaire --> Nobody Doug Risebrough --> Horvat (somewhat better) Nobody --> Alex Edler Edited December 15, 2019 by Kevin Biestra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said: The 1970s Canadiens? Dear lord... Ken Dryden --> Nobody Guy Lafleur --> Nobody Guy Lapointe --> (maybe) Quinn Hughes (if lucky) Pete Mahovlich --> Brock Boeser Yvan Cournoyer --> Elias Petterson (if lucky) Steve Shutt --> Nobody Larry Robinson --> Nobody Serge Savard --> Nobody Bob Gainey -- > Nobody Henri Richard --> Nobody Doug Jarvis --> Nobody (maybe Brendan Sutter on his best day) Mario Tremblay --> Nobody (mayyybe Ferland?) Yvon Lambert --> JT Miller (slightly better) Jacques Lemaire --> Nobody Doug Risebrough --> Horvat (somewhat better) Nobody --> Alex Edler What does better than nobody mean? I'm confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said: What does better than nobody mean? I'm confused. That is the Canadiens lineup and the counterpart on the Canucks lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said: That is the Canadiens lineup and the counterpart on the Canucks lineup. lol, i thought that is what you were saying. way off though ... borderline troll carry on as you will, as gross as it is 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 9 hours ago, Gawdzukes said: lol, i thought that is what you were saying. way off though ... borderline troll carry on as you will, as gross as it is No, if anything this just says how little respect you have for that Canadiens dynasty and its roster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) How is Sutter and Ferland also not waived.... I guess they have to be off the injuried list before that could happen. Both are damaged goods now and it is time the Canucks moved on with them. See you Loui E, Ferland and Sutter. Time for the club to go younger, stronger and faster........ Edited December 12, 2019 by kingofsurrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said: How is Sutter and Ferland also not waived.... I guess they have to be off the injuried list before that could happen. Both are damaged goods now and it is time the Canucks moved on with them. See you Loui E, Ferland and Sutter. Time for the club to go younger, stronger and faster........ Lol... go ahead, explain your inclusion of a couple of vets who could still prove to be better than average contributors to this team over Eriksson.. go ahead, step up,. Go first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 12 hours ago, SilentSam said: Lol... go ahead, explain your inclusion of a couple of vets who could still prove to be better than average contributors to this team over Eriksson.. go ahead, step up,. Go first... Loui E - 6 mil Ferkland - 3.5 Sutter 4.4. 13 MIl next season for 3 guys that the club simply does not need as they are so rarely healthy ( Ferk and Suts ) . and Loui rarely effective... 13 mil.... Get rid of all 3 of them and lets bring in some guys that can play and contribute for 80 games a year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'NucK™ Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 On 12/10/2019 at 6:01 PM, gameburn said: You're right of course: hall of famers with a string of cups we don't have. Obviously. But we do have a lot of forwards capable of playing in the NHL. Baertschi, Goldobin, maybe Graovac -- these guys could make some other teams. And there is Eriksson, the odd man out to add to that list. We got rid of players too that made other teams -- Gagner and Granlund come to mind. Call it unsustainable depth or bad asset management, or just plain evolution. Well they both made one team.. just so happens to be the Oilers though And I'm not so sure that Baer Goldy or Grao are really players who could make other teams considering they weren't able to stick here even when we had a few injuries. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 3 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: Loui E - 6 mil Ferkland - 3.5 Sutter 4.4. 13 MIl next season for 3 guys that the club simply does not need as they are so rarely healthy ( Ferk and Suts ) . and Loui rarely effective... 13 mil.... Get rid of all 3 of them and lets bring in some guys that can play and contribute for 80 games a year.... Eriksson and the Luongo cap hit are what’s really hurting this team. Sutter needs to prove himself worthy of sticking, even before we can move him.. Ferland I think is the one to have a little patience with,. Could still be a monster in a playoff series, and that contract isn’t really hurting us. 3.5 mil in the near future will look like what 2 mil is this year. Hard to move anybody if they are not producing,. That’s what has to happen regardless of moves or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gameburn Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/10/2019 at 11:16 PM, Kevin Biestra said: The 1970s Canadiens? Dear lord... 70s Canadiens --> Present Day Canucks Counterpart Ken Dryden --> Nobody Guy Lafleur --> Nobody Guy Lapointe --> (maybe) Quinn Hughes (if lucky) Pete Mahovlich --> Brock Boeser Yvan Cournoyer --> Elias Petterson (if lucky) Steve Shutt --> Nobody Larry Robinson --> Nobody Serge Savard --> Nobody Bob Gainey -- > Nobody Henri Richard --> Nobody Doug Jarvis --> Nobody (maybe Brendan Sutter on his best day) Mario Tremblay --> Nobody (mayyybe Ferland?) Yvon Lambert --> JT Miller (slightly better) Jacques Lemaire --> Nobody Doug Risebrough --> Horvat (somewhat better) Nobody --> Alex Edler I wasn't referring to the talent of the best 8 players each, we have only 4 players who are as good as their best 9. And Markstrom is no Dryden, agreed. I grew up watching those teams (I lived in Sherbrooke.) I saw them win a lot of games. I know how good they are. What I was referring to was the bottom 21 -- especially the forwards -- beyond the best 5 each. I.e., the top 26 players in an organization, with the emphasis on the ones in the pressbox or in the minors. Like Montreal, we have more NHL players than we can play. They were able to protect theirs better because the waiver rule was very different then to say the least. Like Montreal we have more depth than many teams in the league. Our depth has less total talent, obviously, but still we have a a lot of players capable of playing in the NHL far too many in fact. We waived better players than some teams have playing now, we let players like Hutton and Gagner go because we couldn't find a way to use them or pay them. Baertschi and Eriksson could both play somewhere else, so could Goldobin I suspect. Juolevi and Chatfield could both play on some teams right now. We used FAs to get most of our surplus, while Montreal used Pollock's drafting/trading. Re your list. Henry Richard played too long, a third of his career was quite mediocre. Tremblay, Houle, Jarvis, Lambert, these players were carried by the rest of the team and were largely workable as players because so many of the expansion teams were so weak. No parity then, which makes our depth all the more interesting, imo. Pete Mahovlich was a centre, more like Horvat than Boeser. Shutt was a classic sniper, more like Boeser. Although Boeser is already a better playmaker than Shutt ever was. Pettersson is a generational talent, certainly the equal of Lafleur at the start of his career who mostly sat on the bench his first two years. (Weird coaching decision, I know.) Cournoyer was unique, his speed could kill a team and was effective on any line. He ruled on that first Team Canada. That guy we really have no equivalent to, I mean he had Virtanen's speed and Boeser's finish. My mistake in posting what I did was using the word "depth" which does usually imply more than just NHL-ready players. What I should have said is "like Montreal and Boston of that era (1971?) we have many more NHL-ready players than a lot of teams have." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gameburn Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 9 hours ago, 'NucK™ said: Well they both made one team.. just so happens to be the Oilers though And I'm not so sure that Baer Goldy or Grao are really players who could make other teams considering they weren't able to stick here even when we had a few injuries. Graovac made the Washington team (that won a cup) out of training camp I think. Although he didn't stick I assume. Goldobin is unknown as to his potential. But now that Vancouver is a middling team, we know there are teams like NJ, Ottawa, and Detroit, and probably Chicago that need more NHL caliber players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 hours ago, gameburn said: Re your list. Henry Richard played too long, a third of his career was quite mediocre. Tremblay, Houle, Jarvis, Lambert, these players were carried by the rest of the team and were largely workable as players because so many of the expansion teams were so weak. No parity then, which makes our depth all the more interesting, imo. Pete Mahovlich was a centre, more like Horvat than Boeser. Shutt was a classic sniper, more like Boeser. Although Boeser is already a better playmaker than Shutt ever was. Pettersson is a generational talent, certainly the equal of Lafleur at the start of his career who mostly sat on the bench his first two years. (Weird coaching decision, I know.) Cournoyer was unique, his speed could kill a team and was effective on any line. He ruled on that first Team Canada. That guy we really have no equivalent to, I mean he had Virtanen's speed and Boeser's finish. My mistake in posting what I did was using the word "depth" which does usually imply more than just NHL-ready players. What I should have said is "like Montreal and Boston of that era (1971?) we have many more NHL-ready players than a lot of teams have." My counterpart list was more caliber of player than specific role. Yes, Boeser is more like Shutt than he is like Pete Mahovlich, but I was already being kind equating him to a player with two 100 point seasons. I'm not equating him to a 60 goal scorer as of yet. The same goes with Petterson. Yes, Cournoyer is a winger, but the way things are trending so far, I think it's better to cross off Cournoyer on the counterpart list than three-time Art Ross winner and three-time league MVP Lafleur. How confident are we really that Petterson will win even one of either? As to Petterson - "generational generational generational" yadda yadda yadda. No. This has absolutely not been established as of yet. Generational talents are players like Crosby, Mario, McDavid, etc. Petterson is excellent, but I'm already being charitable if I say he will have a career on par with Denis Savard, a certain Hall of Famer but not a "generational" talent. Anyway, as to your point on depth way down the chart... Well, Canucks are looking pretty good. But those Canadiens teams had players like John Van Boxmeer who never really got a sniff of the ice in Montreal and went on to very good things. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see the Canucks with some good talent for the future and things could look very good. But people are throwing around terms like "generational" pretty loosely and while I'm very glad to have Petterson and think he has the tools to eventually even be a Hall of Famer, I don't have much reason to be more optimistic than saying he has about a 50% chance of winning one Hart or one Art Ross trophy in his career, and that is an excellent achievement but not "generational." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Can we get back on topic and stick to Loui bashing! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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