[Discussion] Arizona/OEL

[Pete M]

OEL will be a mistake...he isn't a franchise defensemen...overrated. In a few years, he will bring the same sentiments as LE to this fanbase.

Do not repeat the same mistake that was done by signing LE. This time, it will be a $8.25M mistake.

[Chickenspear]

5 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

for this year, at least in Loui's final year as mll pointed out there's a 2 mil savings at least. You'd think Loui would want to terminate, if he chooses to wait he'll have not played in over a year and be out there trying to look for a job. Good luck. 

 

I do think Jim will try to move Baer for anything today, probably unsuccessfully, and we'll see Baer bought out tomorrow. 

I don't see this one happening, but it might be best to retain 50% on Loui to a team with cap, just for the purposes of a buyout. Would cost us $2.833m year one, year 2 would only be $1.833m, $333K last 2 years... even better if there were a 3rd team involved @33% retained. Wonder what the cost for us pick/prospect-wise would be?

[Dazzle]

1 minute ago, Pete M said:

OEL will be a mistake...he isn't a franchise defensemen...overrated. In a few years, he will bring the same sentiments as LE to this fanbase.

Do not repeat the same mistake that was done by signing LE. This time, it will be a $8.25M mistake.

He is an excellent defenceman. He scored a lot of points for a pretty mediocre Arizona team. But the salary and term are dreadful. He's not going to be LE.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Chickenspear said:

I don't see this one happening, but it might be best to retain 50% on Loui to a team with cap, just for the purposes of a buyout. Would cost us $2.833m year one, year 2 would only be $1.833m, $333K last 2 years... even better if there were a 3rd team involved @33% retained. Wonder what the cost for us pick/prospect-wise would be?

interesting idea... I'd guess something like that costs us Hoglander. 

[Pete M]

Just now, Dazzle said:

He is an excellent defenceman. He scored a lot of points for a pretty mediocre Arizona team. But the salary and term are dreadful. He's not going to be LE.

IMHO, it is the kid in the candy store scenario which only leads to regret for buying what you bought without considering everything....7 year at $8.25M player who hasn't done anything special and has average stats.

[peaches5]

7 minutes ago, Pete M said:

OEL will be a mistake...he isn't a franchise defensemen...overrated. In a few years, he will bring the same sentiments as LE to this fanbase.

Do not repeat the same mistake that was done by signing LE. This time, it will be a $8.25M mistake.

He's literally been an franchise defesmen for the better part of a decade.

[Dazzle]

Just now, Pete M said:

IMHO, it is the kid in the candy store scenario which only leads to regret for buying what you bought without considering everything....7 year at $8.25M player who hasn't done anything special and has average stats.

His most eye popping stats happened 5 years ago, roughly, and he had noticeably declined stats wise. However he has a very accurate shot from the point, albeit on the left side. He almost got 10 goals as a defenceman. It's not bad.

[peaches5]

4 minutes ago, Pete M said:

IMHO, it is the kid in the candy store scenario which only leads to regret for buying what you bought without considering everything....7 year at $8.25M player who hasn't done anything special and has average stats.

Hasn't done anything special? He led his team in scoring and scored 20 goals in a season, twice, as a defensemen. He's literally been the offense in Arizona. A team that struggles to score.. on a team that can put the puck in the net he is a 60-70pt defensemen.

Edited October 7, 2020 by peaches5

[Nucker 67]

3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

He is an excellent defenceman. He scored a lot of points for a pretty mediocre Arizona team. But the salary and term are dreadful. He's not going to be LE.

I think some have a bit of PTSD from the Eriksson signing, so there is some fear the same mistake will be repeated, but on a larger scale.

OEL is an elite Dman in the league, any other fan base would love to have. Who cares if he's expensive if he helps make the Canucks contenders? Not up to me to fit everyone under the cap, I'm just a fan who wants to see the Canucks kick some butt next season. Tired of the Canucks cheaping out on mediocre UFAs, time to get serious and build a winner.

 

[aGENT]

7 hours ago, .Naslund said:

I don't get the people worried about losing Rathbone or Juolevi.  OEL is like the end product of what you'd hope for any of those guys to be, if its possible, why not trade them straight up for the end product and call it a day. 

Multiple years of far cheaper ELC and bridge deals and youth is what they bring to the table.

 

That said, OEL is a number one D. He might stay that way or ease down to a number two over the term of his contract but that's still better than the likely ceilings of either Juolevi (likely #3) or Rathbone (likely #4).

 

So I'm happy to make that swap. Ideally we could add OEL and keep both of them and send other assets but that's unlikely unfortunately. And if we do add OEL, we can afford to move one of them.

[Odjick29willkillyou]

Lost in all of this is where in the hell is Ferland and his money?!? Every future roster prediction does not include him and one cannot help but wonder if he may end up on LTIR or just medically retire. Would be great if he got healthy and became the physical asset we desired, but history would suggest otherwise. His money could go far in re-signing one of our UFAs and/or making this trade more feasible.  

[peaches5]

11 minutes ago, Odjick29willkillyou said:

Lost in all of this is where in the hell is Ferland and his money?!? Every future roster prediction does not include him and one cannot help but wonder if he may end up on LTIR or just medically retire. Would be great if he got healthy and became the physical asset we desired, but history would suggest otherwise. His money could go far in re-signing one of our UFAs and/or making this trade more feasible.  

He's has to be on LTIR to start the year and probably for the remainder of the year but after that he might try to come back.

[Pete M]

13 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

His most eye popping stats happened 5 years ago, roughly, and he had noticeably declined stats wise. However he has a very accurate shot from the point, albeit on the left side. He almost got 10 goals as a defenceman. It's not bad.

Yeah, and one of those seasons, 5 years ago, the team ended dead last in the conference. He did lead the team in scoring, but on a bad team. 

Do these stats mean much playing on a dead last team? Plus this was five years ago....during that time the team ended dead last in another year.

 

If anything, I'm on record for saying to not touch this contract because it will end up like an LE contract and hamstring (cripple) this team for a few years, just like what is happening with LE. Please do not cripple this team, period.

 

[Odjick29willkillyou]

5 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

He's has to be on LTIR to start the year and probably for the remainder of the year but after that he might try to come back.

Just feels like another "unknown" factor preventing us from improving  

[PhillipBlunt]

5 minutes ago, Odjick29willkillyou said:

Lost in all of this is where in the hell is Ferland and his money?!? Every future roster prediction does not include him and one cannot help but wonder if he may end up on LTIR or just medically retire. Would be great if he got healthy and became the physical asset we desired, but history would suggest otherwise. His money could go far in re-signing one of our UFAs and/or making this trade more feasible.  

Supposedly his agent said that he’s still set on playing hockey. 

[Odjick29willkillyou]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Supposedly his agent said that he’s still set on playing hockey. 

I tell my mom (yes I am a mama's boy lol) and my Fiance that all the time and while I am planning on skating this afternoon, my body is telling me it is time to start coaching. After my 9th concussion earlier this year I have really had to think about my long term health.  Maybe ol Ferly needs to listen to his body/brain and do the same. 

[Provost]

5 minutes ago, Pete M said:

Yeah, and one of those seasons, 5 years ago, the team ended dead last in the conference. He did lead the team in scoring, but on a bad team. 

Do these stats mean much playing on a dead last team? Plus this was five years ago....during that time the team ended dead last in another year.

 

If anything, I'm on record for saying to not touch this contract because it will end up like an LE contract and hamstring (cripple) this team for a few years, just like what is happening with LE. Please do not cripple this team, period.

 

If we got 4 great years out of Eriksson as a top contributor and then had to deal with a couple of bad years, that would have been easy to swallow.

 

We can be pretty assured of getting several great years out of OEL before a “possible” tail off.  Nobody legitimate is saying OEL is a bad player, the estimated range from “still an elite #1 guy in a different situation” to “Maybe only a #2 guy that is overpaid”.

 

Neither end of that spectrum is what Eriksson was right off the bat.  

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, Odjick29willkillyou said:

I tell my mom (yes I am a mama's boy lol) and my Fiance that all the time and while I am planning on skating this afternoon, my body is telling me it is time to start coaching. After my 9th concussion earlier this year I have really had to think about my long term health.  Maybe ol Ferly needs to listen to his body/brain and do the same. 

Based on how many stops and starts he’s had since he signed with Vancouver, I’d tend to agree with you. 

[Pete M]

1 minute ago, Provost said:

If we got 4 great years out of Eriksson as a top contributor and then had to deal with a couple of bad years, that would have been easy to swallow.

 

We can be pretty assured of getting several great years out of OEL before a “possible” tail off.  Nobody legitimate is saying OEL is a bad player, the estimated range from “still an elite #1 guy in a different situation” to “Maybe only a #2 guy that is overpaid”.

 

Neither end of that spectrum is what Eriksson was right off the bat.  

I lean more toward a New England Patriot model of building a franchise where they try not to have any bad contracts...not even for one year during the duration of a contract.

[rekker]

2 minutes ago, Pete M said:

I lean more toward a New England Patriot model of building a franchise where they try not to have any bad contracts...not even for one year during the duration of a contract.

Tough to compare NFL to NHL that way. NHL has guaranteed long term contracts which drives me nuts. I prefer the NFL model where the player has some guarantees but the club can also cut a player at the end of a contract if they are not performing. IE, LE and many other UFA free agent blunders of that year.