VAN Ranked #3 For Prospect/Young Depth & Quality

[Yung1]

14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

No that’s not how it works.   It has to be close to 11 million before it gets that high.   4.3-6.5 is one first rounder and one third rounder.   Below that barely anything.  6.5-AHO is 1 first - second and one 3rd.   Below 4.3 a second rounder.   Below a certain amount Zero compensation. 
 

Edit:  If a team offer sheeted EP at 10.702 would you match or take the four first rounders?  

Woops you're right. I was looking at the 2005 numbers haha

 

I would not take the 4 first rounders. It essentially means we restart the rebuild.

[spook007]

29 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes I think QHs is exempt and doubt it will happen to us - just some rumblings/suppositions that it could happen given flat cap ... Aho, before that was 5-6 years with O’Reilly, it hasn’t happened often since Burke/Lowe debacle over Penner.   Lowe offered 5 million which is like 8-9 now .... and started a war with Burke and lost a lot of respect because Burke was 100% correct for losing his sh!t over it.   TO should have learned from Lowe’s mistakes and not offered their young stars third contract money either ha ha.   
 

Read it on NHL.com recently - one writer was saying the market would me ripe for the dreaded offer sheet - it’s probably mostly wind but it could be quite tactical depending on both teams (one against the cap - the other with room looking for that over the top piece).   Personally I think the league should consider suspending that until Covid is up because I’d don’t feel the return is very fair if a team can’t afford to match. 

Absolutely correct.

With an unexpected flat cap due to Corona virus, its massively unfair to screw up teams who is building their teams just now... mind you being screwed over by the league is hardly anything new to the Canucks..

 

The writer does have a point though, and I can just see the fan base totally lose it, if anyone started to offer sheet Petey.... Imagine only to get a 1st, a 2nd and 3rd for Petey....

Someone posted a list with approx cap space for the NHL teams...

Imagine a team with a lot of cap space, lots of Picks / young players coming through over the next 3-5 years, or Avs.... 

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by spook007

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, Yung1 said:

Woops you're right. I was looking at the 2005 numbers haha

 

I would not take the 4 first rounders. It essentially means we restart the rebuild.

Me neither.   That’s how darn good he is (EP). Hasn’t happened yet ... Penner got a deal similar to what AHO got but two less years...Burke got a first second and third and came up with these sort of gems “an act of desperation by a GM fighting to keep his job” and “ we don’t think these salaries make sense - if I accepted that would mean I’m as dumb as the one offering them “ and, my personal favourite “ we are going to take these three draft picks and given Kevin’s recent track record expect them to be excellent picks.”  Ha ha ... this debacle served as a warning in a lot of ways.  
 

For one Burke was 200% correct - not only did Lowe give Penner third contract money he should have offer sheeted Perry or Getzlaf - he picked the wrong guy (to me that’s karma and funny).    And Burke never stopped harassing him and Lowe never one for backing down from a fight had a pretty good game too - saying Burke was no substance - more worried about his 2 minutes infront of the camera then managing his team - referring to his six cup rings just enough to make a point etc etc.   
 

Get it’s a not an often used part of the CBA, especially after Lowe’s epic failure and the resulting back and forth and ill-will (both Burke and Lowe took it very personally because well it became personal right away)  -  and doubt it will actually happen.  But sure the media sure hopes it does.  Maybe that’s all this about - the media bringing it up because it definitely sold in the past.  That said it did happen for the first time in years recently so maybe they are on to something. 

[LowerMainLander18]

Is there a way to read the full article/ rankings without having to subscribe online?

 

 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, spook007 said:

Absolutely correct.

With an unexpected flat cap due to Corona virus, its massively unfair to screw up teams who is building their teams just now... mind you being screwed over by the league is hardly anything new to the Canucks..

 

The writer does have a point though, and I can just see the fan base totally lose it, if anyone started to offer sheet Petey.... Imagine only to get a 1st, a 2nd and 3rd for Petey....

Someone posted a list with approx cap space for the NHL teams...

Imagine a team with a lot of cap space, lots of Picks / young players coming through over the next 3-5 years, or Avs.... 

 

I think that JB should be planning for this.   Which is on more reasons  why I don’t think this year is a time to spend regardless of recent successes.    He’d have more leverage without having to worry about an offer sheet - GMs would look at our cap space and say no thx if we had plenty of space.   I think we’d be lucky if  EP will ends up with a similar deal to AHO.  If there isnt a season next year - and that QHs will get a similar deal as well.  If there is and he explodes for 100 points then great but crap cap wise.
 

   Some tough decisions ahead for sure.   Just hope a couple of bounces our way didn’t fool them.   Pretty sure it wouldn’t as my wife who rarely watches with me did against Vegas and could barely stand it.   Like they were on the PP 5 x 5.   That’s not a cup winning team even with TT at the top of his game ( but what about his 10 points in 10 games?) Cut bait.  Prepare for Podz, Hogs or whomever rather then spending money we don’t really have next year.   Keep it.  Best case it’s spent on our defense anyways.   JB has surprised me in the past so maybe he pulls a rabbit out of his hat.   There is merit in going for it while these kids are still in their ELCs but the actual window doesn’t start until later.  And he for sure knows this. 

[Cali Canuck]

5 hours ago, LowerMainLander18 said:

Is there a way to read the full article/ rankings without having to subscribe online?

 

 

Here's a guest pass - 1 time only - good for 30 days.  Forgot the link https://theathletic.com/gp/2zutnw371q

Edited September 13, 2020 by Cali Canuck
new info

[Cali Canuck]

Here's a link to the Canucks ranking https://theathletic.com/2035883/2020/09/10/2020-nhl-organizational-rankings-no-3-vancouver-canucks/ you might be able to do 7 or 30 days for free.

[BarnBurner]

@Davathor

 

You give me the goofy-eyed confusion icon because I said Petey and Hughes are potentially both hybrid elite players? 

 

And although I didn't specifically say potentially, based on what biestra was saying, that should be a given. 

[BarnBurner]

37 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

@Davathor

 

You give me the goofy-eyed confusion icon because I said Petey and Hughes are potentially both hybrid elite players? 

 

And although I didn't specifically say potentially, based on what biestra was saying, that should be a given. 

You seem to be confused easily.

[Nuxfanabroad]

53 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

You seem to be confused easily.

That emoji really gets to me, as it looks like my first gf!

[spook007]

10 hours ago, IBatch said:

I think that JB should be planning for this.   Which is on more reasons  why I don’t think this year is a time to spend regardless of recent successes.    He’d have more leverage without having to worry about an offer sheet - GMs would look at our cap space and say no thx if we had plenty of space.   I think we’d be lucky if  EP will ends up with a similar deal to AHO.  If there isnt a season next year - and that QHs will get a similar deal as well.  If there is and he explodes for 100 points then great but crap cap wise.
 

   Some tough decisions ahead for sure.   Just hope a couple of bounces our way didn’t fool them.   Pretty sure it wouldn’t as my wife who rarely watches with me did against Vegas and could barely stand it.   Like they were on the PP 5 x 5.   That’s not a cup winning team even with TT at the top of his game ( but what about his 10 points in 10 games?) Cut bait.  Prepare for Podz, Hogs or whomever rather then spending money we don’t really have next year.   Keep it.  Best case it’s spent on our defense anyways.   JB has surprised me in the past so maybe he pulls a rabbit out of his hat.   There is merit in going for it while these kids are still in their ELCs but the actual window doesn’t start until later.  And he for sure knows this. 

I agree Ibatch. 
I thought the boys did fantastic and showed immense heart.... however, if we are brutally honest, it was men v boys at times during the Vegas series... we had been through the mill in two previous rounds and it finally caught up with us.

 

Benning has stated before that you win with older players, so he firmly believes that as well.

He may however think, that a few players being changed could move us over the top, after seeing the boys go toe to toe with both Wild and Blues...

I have to admit, I never thought about Petey perhaps being offer sheeted, and it has put it all into a different perspective...

 

it is really hard to guess about these things just now, as nobody knows if he can get out of the Eriksson issue and what trades he may be able to make. But yes, he can not put himself in a position, where he can’t match an offers sheet for Petey. 
 

Just one question, if anyone offers Petey 10-11+mill x 4-7 on his next contract (his second), how do you leave this much money free? And aren’t  Bos, Millers and Brocks second contracts being wasted then? As they are also going to look for increases soon after? 
 

These will be the waters Benning will have to try and navigate, as he moves forward. A totally different, all be it nicer, problem to have. 
It will be very interesting to see, what Benning figures out. 
Finally, could Benning swing it around and have Tofo take a reduced contract, provided he promises him his mate Pearson stays as well beyond his contract also at a reduced rate? (make a verbal deal with both behind the scenes)? 

 

Its kinda weird thinking about these things, as with the Corona Virus hanging over their head, we don’t even know if they’ll be playing next season, Is Aquilini even interested in spending this much money on players, not knowing if he is handing out his money for nothing....
Only few business men became rich by handing out money for free.

 

PS. Just went through Cap friendly and cannot see anyway we can keep Pearson here as well after his contract runs out....so much for that idea...

Edited September 13, 2020 by spook007

[Nuxfanabroad]

Guys at the end of the '21 season, appears there's about $ 21,000,000 coming off the books.

 

EP & QH would have to go full-on Gretz & Orr for offer-sheets to upset our apple cart.

 

We just need to patiently stay the course, & cap-commitments end as we need to begin new ones.

[spook007]

20 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Guys at the end of the '21 season, appears there's about $ 21,000,000 coming off the books.

 

EP & QH would have to go full-on Gretz & Orr for offer-sheets to upset our apple cart.

 

We just need to patiently stay the course, & cap-commitments end as we need to begin new ones.

Cheers Nux.

We would also need Demko resigned and a new Dman to take Edlers slack out of the 21M ( that’ll cost around 10M+) 
How much do you think EP would get on his next contract?

Edited September 13, 2020 by spook007

[Nuxfanabroad]

12 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Cheers Nux.

We would also need Demko resigned and a new Dman to take Edlers slack out of the 21M ( that’ll cost around 10M+) 
How much do you think EP would get on his next contract?

Hey man, It's a good question. I'll go out on a limb & guess 2 offers

a.. something like Eichel. 8 yrs/80 mill

Or b.. about 3 yrs at perhaps 8 mill per

 

& then I'd guess Hughes is likely somewhere similar

 

This is where it gets iffy for me. In the cap world, I'm not big on accumulating too many superstars. It's probably easier for a team to win multiple Cups with perhaps 1 superstar, supported by 6 or 7 high-end types. A deeep, large & fast lineup with solid, superior 'tending.

 

I look back to Quebec/Colorado(early 90's) as a smart example that some GM today(maybe Sakic?) would be wise to learn from. I hope JB is reflecting on it. When they dealt away 3 first overalls(& due to various circumstances, not necc by choice), I think they established a formula that might be even more sensible in today's NHL cap parity.

 

Injecting highly performing ELC's are like legal steroids. If a team drafts well, dealing away some young talent keeps the conveyor rolling.

 

Anywho, sorry to digress :^)

 

 

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Hey man, It's a good question. I'll go out on a limb & guess 2 offers

a.. something like Eichel. 8 yrs/80 mill

Or b.. about 3 yrs at perhaps 8 mill per

 

& then I'd guess Hughes is likely somewhere similar

 

This is where it gets iffy for me. In the cap world, I'm not big on accumulating too many superstars. It's probably easier for a team to win multiple Cups with perhaps 1 superstar, supported by 6 or 7 high-end types. A deeep, large & fast lineup with solid, superior 'tending.

 

I look back to Quebec/Colorado(early 90's) as a smart example that some GM today(maybe Sakic?) would be wise to learn from. I hope JB is reflecting on it. When they dealt away 3 first overalls(& due to various circumstances, not necc by choice), I think they established a formula that might be even more sensible in today's NHL cap parity.

 

Injecting highly performing ELC's are like legal steroids. If a team drafts well, dealing away some young talent keeps the conveyor rolling.

 

Anywho, sorry to digress :^)

 

 

I get where you’re coming from. If the support isn’t there around your stars, you can easily come a cropper... think both Oilers and Leafs are in that trap just now... 

I think, we do have a few elc’s and younger players ready to take up spots on the bottom 2 lines and maybe even the 2nd line as well, although it remains to be seen. 

As I mentioned to Ibatch earlier as well, my concern is,  if we hang around too long waiting for EP and Hughes matures, we waste the good deals both Bo and Miller is on as well as Boeser. 
if it wasn’t for the offer sheet issue I wouldn’t be at all worries, but this had me slightly concerned. 
Think the big question is, if hockey will be back at xmas, will the influx of Podz, Lind and Hogs + hopefully a couple of hard nosed forwards be enough to brings us to the finals? If so, should we resign all 3 major pending free agents?
If not, then I believe letting Tofo go will be the sensible decision, as much as I’d hate for it to happen. Tanev is a huge question mark as well. What does he expect v what else is available. 
Regardless it is first world problems, and far nicer for the club and fans alike to have, than the questions/decisions faced over the last 6 years. 
Benning now has the bricks to build a proper team. Can he fit all the pieces remains to be seen. 
Always great to have a dicission with you friend 

 

And yes sorry to digress 

Edited September 13, 2020 by spook007

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, spook007 said:

I agree Ibatch. 
I thought the boys did fantastic and showed immense heart.... however, if we are brutally honest, it was men v boys at times during the Vegas series... we had been through the mill in two previous rounds and it finally caught up with us.

 

Benning has stated before that you win with older players, so he firmly believes that as well.

He may however think, that a few players being changed could move us over the top, after seeing the boys go toe to toe with both Wild and Blues...

I have to admit, I never thought about Petey perhaps being offer sheeted, and it has put it all into a different perspective...

 

it is really hard to guess about these things just now, as nobody knows if he can get out of the Eriksson issue and what trades he may be able to make. But yes, he can not put himself in a position, where he can’t match an offers sheet for Petey. 
 

Just one question, if anyone offers Petey 10-11+mill x 4-7 on his next contract (his second), how do you leave this much money free? And aren’t  Bos, Millers and Brocks second contracts being wasted then? As they are also going to look for increases soon after? 
 

These will be the waters Benning will have to try and navigate, as he moves forward. A totally different, all be it nicer, problem to have. 
It will be very interesting to see, what Benning figures out. 
Finally, could Benning swing it around and have Tofo take a reduced contract, provided he promises him his mate Pearson stays as well beyond his contract also at a reduced rate? (make a verbal deal with both behind the scenes)? 

 

Its kinda weird thinking about these things, as with the Corona Virus hanging over their head, we don’t even know if they’ll be playing next season, Is Aquilini even interested in spending this much money on players, not knowing if he is handing out his money for nothing....
Only few business men became rich by handing out money for free.

 

PS. Just went through Cap friendly and cannot see anyway we can keep Pearson here as well after his contract runs out....so much for that idea...

Thanks Spook - I agree that these guys showed great heart and wow what a show at the end with Demko.   Things went better then I’m pretty sure all of us on here excepted...first crack at it and 17 games!    To me the team could start working on getting EP signed anytime, like with Keller a year or so ago signing early as one option.   He would set the market in a way with his free agents too as they won’t wait around forever and doubt they want the 11th hour signing like with BB.    Edler is a little buffer too but that only works if he signs EP first.   Once Edler is re-signed that cash is off the table. 
 

Edit:   On Pearson,  I’m not sure how we can keep both him and TT on the roster long term either.   Their will be two layers of signings for sure - next years and the one when Horvat and Miller are up.   Covid might determine quite a bit of this.   Without a season next year the players won’t get paid so the owners won’t have to worry about that - there is an act of god clause (disaster, pandemic etc) in the CBA which would definitely get activated in this case.   Hope it doesn’t come to that as this is stressful enough (worrying about how they can fit them all in). 

Edited September 13, 2020 by IBatch

[spook007]

15 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Thanks Spook - I agree that these guys showed great heart and wow what a show at the end with Demko.   Things went better then I’m pretty sure all of us on here excepted...first crack at it and 17 games!    To me the team could start working on getting EP signed anytime, like with Keller a year or so ago signing early as one option.   He would set the market in a way with his free agents too as they won’t wait around forever and doubt they want the 11th hour signing like with BB.    Edler is a little buffer too but that only works if he signs EP first.   Once Edler is re-signed that cash is off the table. 

Sure... if they are holding back cap wise for EP's next contract, sure they may as well start talking to EP's camp now. Maybe get slightly lower AVV since they are not going to pay him pittance next year... Could actually work in their favour... again provided they don't plan to spend to the cap, but keep cap space for Peteys next contract. And that would also eliminate the offer sheet crap...

 

Will interesting to see how it plays out... and without doubt starting point of many a discussion over the next X amount of months/years

 

[IBatch]

17 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Sure... if they are holding back cap wise for EP's next contract, sure they may as well start talking to EP's camp now. Maybe get slightly lower AVV since they are not going to pay him pittance next year... Could actually work in their favour... again provided they don't plan to spend to the cap, but keep cap space for Peteys next contract. And that would also eliminate the offer sheet crap...

 

Will interesting to see how it plays out... and without doubt starting point of many a discussion over the next X amount of months/years

 

My brother also talked to me about this right after the playoffs.   Still have to finish up next season (assuming it happens)contract, but can sign him early like Keller...  we’d be going into next off season with one of the two most important deals done.   Saw the 21 million of space opening up ... I think 16 will be the low range for these two, and that could even include one on a bridge deal (one more playoffs like that with similar stats and these guys are getting paid more for sure, or seeing another level next year during the regular season for that matter).  
 

Think the range is 16-19, probably somewhere in between.   Both on bridges doesn’t make sense given then the entire core would be up within a 1-2 year period mostly but these are strange times for sure - so maybe 15 at the absolute lowest (both on bridges).   Of the guys needing new contracts, Edler, Sutter and Pearson’s spots will need replacements, a top six third line C and top four D.  In the open market that’s around what they are currently getting.   So that’s out.   Our teams fortunes are now mostly in what’s left of our prospect pool and whatever narly old UFAs we can get to come in (ala Thornton/Perry like deals), to plug the holes.   Demko should get what Markstrom is getting now - so a 2.5 ish million dollar raise - and the guys taking Sutter, Edler and Pearson spots are the very least will cost 2.1 (league minimum).   That’s 4.6 - say 5.   21-5 = 16....this is why I’ve been saying all along we can’t afford TT (yet), and need to mindful about socking away a little extra for next year.    It’s also why I’m not sure JM will be in our long term plans and although JB is talking about a nice game is secretly over the moon at what Demko did.    Now my head hurts thinking about all of this ha ha.  

[BCNate]

On 9/12/2020 at 2:30 AM, iceman64 said:

Hmmm Tryamkin and Bailey don't belong in the "potential" NHL"

 Try isn't here because Willy D sucks arse and Bailey has played already and Big Mac will be pushing, Hogs n Podz and only so many spots so depth will grow around the team as contracts drop off and just as we're getting closer to a fully open window of core for competitive hockey for awhile yet and tweaks too.. should be fun!

I put Tryamkin in potential because I am not sold he ever plays another game here.  I'm not sure I consider Bailey to have legit NHL yet.  

 

Either way, thanks for the feedback, my point was really just to prove that we have a ton of depth coming through the ranks, and are in a great spot prospect wise.

[iceman64]

11 hours ago, BCNate said:

I put Tryamkin in potential because I am not sold he ever plays another game here.  I'm not sure I consider Bailey to have legit NHL yet.  

 

Either way, thanks for the feedback, my point was really just to prove that we have a ton of depth coming through the ranks, and are in a great spot prospect wise.

Why would you not think Train will be back? I think it's the opposite if anything, I can't tell you which interview it was with JB but it was after the playoffs 2 yrs ago when JB mentioned specifically noted how physical the playoffs were and to prepare to get there he wanted to add grit and size wherever possible and that still stands, we need guys like him, just enough to say "don't F with us!"  

Last time was 2011 as I recall, we're way past due to have a evenly balanced skill and grit teams but it takes time to get it done but JB has it is his head so he'll get it right or as close to it as he can to keep us competitive but Train fits that so I'm still curious why you think that? 

 From what I've read he's kept up on the Canucks and wants another shot and I think JB will, it would be perfect to do that on D, a big crease clearing stay at home D paired with an offensive PMD sounds pretty good to me.. 

 Still seems funny that the boards want more out of the upcoming draft for a top 6 draft forward spot but we got that covered for awhile, so do we need a 1st this yr anymore to try and develop someone when we ended up with TJ instead? Not really, we still have Hogs n Podz.. among others so as you said we're sitting in a decent position now but even better in a cpl of yrs... c'mon Stanley.. time to come home ffs!!!