2021 NHL Entry Draft

[R3aL]

25 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Interesting rankings

https://dobberprospects.com/2021/06/30/ferrari-2021-nhl-draft-rankings-the-final-cut/

 

While I don’t agree 100% I really enjoyed going through His list and reading what he had to say.

 

love the amount of disparity Amongst rankings and lists super exciting having no idea how the chips will fall.

[HighOnHockey]

14 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Similar to Broberg as he has really good tools and size, Edvinsson is much better defensively than Broberg and he was able to make a big difference on the defensive side of the game at the U18. Just not sure of his offensive upside and makes me a little cautious of using a top 10 pick on him. Some scouts are very high on him though and he is a safe bet to be an NHL defender. If our Euro scouts give you the green light and he is there at 9, zero problem taking him.   

I'm at the far other end of this debate. I just think Edvinsson's defense is a major concern. He looked much improved at U18s compared to U17s or 5NU17s, so that's promising, but I'm still far from sold. The entire team was shamefully outclassed by Canada in both games, so hard to pin too much on him, but on the other hand, as the team's workhorse number one defenseman, and your team is getting dismantled like that, I dunno. It's a big part of Buffalo's $&!#show the past few years: they were convinced Risto was the guy, and attached their carriage to the wrong horse, so it's hard to compete when he's getting shelled 25 minutes a night.

 

My thing with Edvinsson has always been, yeah on average he's fine defensively at his own age group, but head to head against high-skill, high IQ offensive forwards, he struggles. Svechkov, Yurov, Guenther, Bedard, Tuomaala are the names I took particular note of Edvinsson getting burned. OK, Bedard isn't fair, he does it to everyone. But the problem is, those are all the types of guys that Edvinsson is going to have to face at the highest level to be a top end D. I'm a diehard John Torterella fan, and I try to watch as many of his media availabilities as I can; one thing he's always talking about is the little chess matches going on all over the ice. For instance he talks constantly about the need for young skilled players to "respect the league", and when asked what this means he explains: these elite skill young players can do all kinds of amazing thing at lower levels, but here you're up against a Duncan Keith or a Patrice Bergeron, those guys will bait you into thinking you have a brilliant play set up, only to realize you're falling into a trap and they embarrass you.

 

The number one key element to being an elite skilled offensive player in the NHL is elite hockey sense. Every one of them has it to some degree. Those guys are always thinking multiple steps ahead, and right now, at least on the defensive side, Edvinsson is processing the game so far behind the top end guys in his age group. Very different type of player than Ristolainen, but similar in the sense that they have the size, skating and puck skills, but if they're relied on to be top pairing defensemen and match against top offensive players, they're in way over their heads. As a 4/5 defenseman he could be elite. Just my take, but I have seen quite a bit of him at various different levels. I think I have him ranked 15 or so.

Edited July 7, 2021 by HighOnHockey

[R3aL]

4 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

I'm at the far other end of this debate. I just think Edvinsson's defense is a major concern. He looked much improved at U18s compared to U17s or 5NU17s, so that's promising, but I'm still far from sold. The entire team was shamefully outclassed by Canada in both games, so hard to pin too much on him, but on the other hand, as the team's workhorse number one defenseman, and your team is getting dismantled like that, I dunno. It's a big part of Buffalo's $&!#show the past few years: they were convinced Risto was the guy, and attached their carriage to the wrong horse, so it's hard to compete when he's getting shelled 25 minutes a night.

 

My thing with Edvinsson has always been, yeah on average he's fine defensively at his own age group, but head to head against high-skill, high IQ offensive forwards, he struggles. Svechkov, Yurov, Guenther, Bedard, Tuomaala are the names I took particular note of Edvinsson getting burned. OK, Bedard isn't fair, he does it to everyone. But the problem is, those are all the types of guys that Edvinsson is going to have to face at the highest level to be a top end D. I'm a diehard John Torterella fan, and I try to watch as many of his media availabilities as I can; one thing he's always talking about is the little chess matches going on all over the ice. For instance he talks constantly about the need for young skilled players to "respect the league", and when asked what this means he explains: these elite skill young players can do all kinds of amazing thing at lower levels, but here you're up against a Duncan Keith or a Patrice Bergeron, those guys will bait you into thinking you have a brilliant play set up, only to realize you're falling into a trap and they embarrass you.

 

The number one key element to being an elite skilled offensive player in the NHL is elite hockey sense. Every one of them has it to some degree. Those guys are always thinking multiple steps ahead, and right now, at least on the defensive side, Edvinsson is processing the game so far behind the top end guys in his age group. Very different type of player than Ristolainen, but similar in the sense that they have the size, skating and puck skills, but if they're relied on to be top pairing defensemen and match against top offensive players, they're in way over their heads. As a 4/5 defenseman he could be elite. Just my take, but I have seen quite a bit of him at various different levels. I think I have him ranked 15 or so.

If the Canucks took him would you trust our teams Swedish scouts?

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

Who might the faller be? Could see it being Guenther or Edvinsson. I'd be elated with either.

 

Edvinsson needs some work, but with some help from Shaw, I see him becoming the type of top-4 Dman that's impossible to find. The Sedins would play a large part in bringing him along, too. 

 

Meanwhile, Guenther is a guy you win with. Period. No two ways about it. That right wing position is a little bit clogged atm, but if Guenther is there for the taking at 9, it should almost be a no-brainer.

 

BUCKLE. UP. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Herberts Vasiljevs

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

For those of you who have a subscription to the Athletic, here's a very enjoyable article on Edvinsson.

 

https://theathletic.com/2546953/2021/06/03/what-is-the-allure-of-simon-edvinsson-the-2021-nhl-drafts-unicorn/

 

It's also cool to note that he takes up MMA, like Jurmo. 

[BarnBurner]

18 hours ago, nowhereman said:

If she can throw some hits and chuck some knuckles, sign 'er up!!

Butch Goring? 

[HighOnHockey]

6 hours ago, R3aL said:

If the Canucks took him would you trust our teams Swedish scouts?

Can't say I'd be excited about the pick at 9, but yeah basically. But then that's only one part of the equation. Partly it is about trusting the scouts to trust the Canucks' (or whatever team drafts him) coaching and development staff to be able to figure this out with the player. This is my problem as a laymen; I'm confident enough in my assessment that I know what I see. But the question is how fixable is it? Best case scenario, even if he does end up reaching something like his ceiling, I'm betting it will be  a long, windy development path to get him there, a la Dougie Hamilton.

[Nucker 67]

11 hours ago, HighOnHockey said:

Well, I know there's been a bit of debate lately about Eklund possibly going first overall. I'd say that is almost as good as squashed with Eklund's statement about staying in Sweden. When's the last time a 1st overall pick didn't make the jump straight to the NHL? Erik Johnson 2006 I believe? Whatever team picks first wants to get that guy in the lineup ASAP.

There might not be any players who jump right into the NHL next season. This Draft isn't like the others. 

[Alflives]

20 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

Can't say I'd be excited about the pick at 9, but yeah basically. But then that's only one part of the equation. Partly it is about trusting the scouts to trust the Canucks' (or whatever team drafts him) coaching and development staff to be able to figure this out with the player. This is my problem as a laymen; I'm confident enough in my assessment that I know what I see. But the question is how fixable is it? Best case scenario, even if he does end up reaching something like his ceiling, I'm betting it will be  a long, windy development path to get him there, a la Dougie Hamilton.

Edvinsson could be another Broberg.  Million dollar body, but a 10 cent brain.  I don’t think he’s there for us at 9 anyway.  He’s big, skates great, and GMs like that.  

[Nucker 67]

8 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Interesting rankings

https://dobberprospects.com/2021/06/30/ferrari-2021-nhl-draft-rankings-the-final-cut/

 

Raty at #9 is very interesting. I really like his Top 8 

[Gawdzukes]

15 hours ago, Nicklas Bo Hunter said:

Better off trading down with us and getting dipetro

 

15 hours ago, Alflives said:

You mean flip our first for theirs and the cost is dipietro?  

Unfortunately I don't think any team is dumb enough to draft a goalie top 10, or trade for Dipietro. Not going to leave us as much as people hope.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Unfortunately I don't think any team is dumb enough to draft a goalie top 10, or trade for Dipietro. Not going to leave us as much as people hope.

Where was MAF drafted?  

[Nucker 67]

5 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Unfortunately I don't think any team is dumb enough to draft a goalie top 10, or trade for Dipietro. Not going to leave us as much as people hope.

You mean, Any GMs courageous enough to take Wallstedt

[Nucker 67]

Players are assets. 

 

An elite goaltender is most likely worth more than a Top 6 Forward or Top 4 D

 

Canucks don't really need Wallstedt, but he would be an incredible asset to have. I wonder what DET would give VAN for Wallstedt?

[73 Percent]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

Players are assets. 

 

An elite goaltender is most likely worth more than a Top 6 Forward or Top 4 D

 

Canucks don't really need Wallstedt, but he would be an incredible asset to have. I wonder what DET would give VAN for Wallstedt?

Probably the same we got for Schneider and lu. Goalies are a dime a dozen. You dont need a HOF goalie to with the cup. 

[Bure_Pavel]

9 hours ago, HighOnHockey said:

I'm at the far other end of this debate. I just think Edvinsson's defense is a major concern. He looked much improved at U18s compared to U17s or 5NU17s, so that's promising, but I'm still far from sold. The entire team was shamefully outclassed by Canada in both games, so hard to pin too much on him, but on the other hand, as the team's workhorse number one defenseman, and your team is getting dismantled like that, I dunno. It's a big part of Buffalo's $&!#show the past few years: they were convinced Risto was the guy, and attached their carriage to the wrong horse, so it's hard to compete when he's getting shelled 25 minutes a night.

 

My thing with Edvinsson has always been, yeah on average he's fine defensively at his own age group, but head to head against high-skill, high IQ offensive forwards, he struggles. Svechkov, Yurov, Guenther, Bedard, Tuomaala are the names I took particular note of Edvinsson getting burned. OK, Bedard isn't fair, he does it to everyone. But the problem is, those are all the types of guys that Edvinsson is going to have to face at the highest level to be a top end D. I'm a diehard John Torterella fan, and I try to watch as many of his media availabilities as I can; one thing he's always talking about is the little chess matches going on all over the ice. For instance he talks constantly about the need for young skilled players to "respect the league", and when asked what this means he explains: these elite skill young players can do all kinds of amazing thing at lower levels, but here you're up against a Duncan Keith or a Patrice Bergeron, those guys will bait you into thinking you have a brilliant play set up, only to realize you're falling into a trap and they embarrass you.

 

The number one key element to being an elite skilled offensive player in the NHL is elite hockey sense. Every one of them has it to some degree. Those guys are always thinking multiple steps ahead, and right now, at least on the defensive side, Edvinsson is processing the game so far behind the top end guys in his age group. Very different type of player than Ristolainen, but similar in the sense that they have the size, skating and puck skills, but if they're relied on to be top pairing defensemen and match against top offensive players, they're in way over their heads. As a 4/5 defenseman he could be elite. Just my take, but I have seen quite a bit of him at various different levels. I think I have him ranked 15 or so.

To be fair Canada did outclassed most teams in the U18 Tourny. I personally dont buy the whole low IQ thing with Edvinsson, Ive seen much improvement in his gap control and breaking up rushes. Some scouts have him as a top 5 pick in this draft and really like him and others are still on the fence, will be interesting to see where he goes. If here is there, I could see the Canucks taking him, the prospect of a potential 6'6" 2 way defender might be too enticing. Personally I think if Kent Johnson and Edvinsson were both available I would lean towards Johnson. Some other factors that could encourage Canucks to draft Edvinsson are success of guys like Ohlund and Edler in our market and our recent success drafting out of Sweden. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Bure_Pavel

[HighOnHockey]

6 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

To be fair Canada did outclassed most teams in the U18 Tourny. I personally dont buy the whole low IQ thing with Edvinsson, Ive seen much improvement in his gap control and breaking up rushes. Some scouts have him as a top 5 pick in this draft and really like him and others are still on the fence, will be interesting to see where he goes.  

I can really only say what I see and try to break it down to the best of my abilities. Don't expect to convince anyone who has formed their own opinions, but if I can find the time I'll try to put together some footage to highlight my points.

[Bure_Pavel]

2 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

I can really only say what I see and try to break it down to the best of my abilities. Don't expect to convince anyone who has formed their own opinions, but if I can find the time I'll try to put together some footage to highlight my points.

All good, the wide range in opinion on Edvinsson could be caused by some consistency issues.  

[Nucker 67]

Canucks have Pearson for the next 3 years and it's well known that Bo really likes him on his line. So, looking at the pairs and what complimentary pieces they need. Would be nice to have 3 scoring lines. 

 

PETTERSSON and BOESER - Could Hoglander join them at LW? With the #9, Eklund, Guenther or Lysell would be great on this line in a couple of years.

 

HORVAT and PEARSON - Does Hoglander stay put? With the #9, Guenther.

 

MILLER and PODKOLZIN - The so-called 3rd line, put Motte with them and it's a tough line to play against

 

 

Leaning towards them taking a Forward with the #9, D take so long to develop and you never know what you're gonna get with a Top 10 Dman - a Juolevi or a Sergachev

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Where was MAF drafted?  

I believe he went first which was widely regarded as a big mistake. Obviously it's possible but I wouldn't go for it. Cossa is just not ranked that high and Wallstedt has been the best young Swedish goalie comparable to Kari Lehtonen. While good he's not top 10 worthy in my books. 

 

I believe Yzerman is a shrewd operator and what people see as an obvious pick will not be according to him. As a player he has played with Osgood, and Hasek, as well as running Tampa. He knows how valuable players are and unless he sees an absolute homerun I don't know that he adds a goalie without having many other pieces. I also don't see SJ going that route as they are constantly re-tooling and it appears that is their current desire as well.

 

I guess if a team wants to build from the net out and do a proper, slow burn rebuild it may be the way to go. It just seems like a lot of risk in today's day and age. That would take a real gutsy approach.

 

Here's to hoping!