Coronavirus outbreak

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, AbbyNux said:

The fact that they never tried anything to assist with early infection should be alarming. 

 

1 hour ago, AbbyNux said:

 

@Sharpshooter post that you replied to then I quoted your reply was about kids dying.

 

Not about kids being hospitalized.

 

As he stated that breaks my heart.

 

All the deaths,the people in hospital,the people that will suffer long term effects from this virus,all touch my heart.

 

 

 

 

[Sharpshooter]

2 hours ago, AbbyNux said:

I get that there is a group in here that doesn't want their echo chamber entered into. Reading this thread makes that evident. 

 

However, if there isn't a dissenting opinion covid thread somewhere else on here, I will express my opinions freely in here. 

 

If it offends you or upsets you, then you are likely perpetually offended by trivial things, like math. 

 

 

There is an echo chamber against nonsense. You got that right. 
 

Express your opinion all you like but understand that your nonsense will be pushed back against by many other posters who have the information to refute nonsense. 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

8 hours ago, Gatzkek said:

The question is why are Drs at risk of losing their license if they prescribe it off label. This is the single most demoralizing aspect of the response. The ivermectin thesis is to use it immediately upon diagnosis to keep people out of the hospital. The drug companies love studies where it's administered seriously ill patients. Using ivermectin has no serious downside and the upside is huge, even if it's placebo effect.

You are at risk of losing your license because prescribing it is extremely irresponsible.

 

Maybe if your a large animal veterinarian and prescribing this to equine owners then what they do with it afterwards is on them but holy crap if people are actually serious that prescribing ivermectin for covid is a responsible thing to do.

[DrJockitch]

10 hours ago, Gatzkek said:

The question is why are Drs at risk of losing their license if they prescribe it off label. This is the single most demoralizing aspect of the response. The ivermectin thesis is to use it immediately upon diagnosis to keep people out of the hospital. The drug companies love studies where it's administered seriously ill patients. Using ivermectin has no serious downside and the upside is huge, even if it's placebo effect.

That’s an easy one, no doctor is at risk of loosing their licence for prescribing ivermectin.  They are at the risk of liability for the off label prescribing of a drug with no proven efficacy and som significant risks. Actually loosing your licence requires some pretty big mis-steps.  
No physician has been threatened to loose their licence over prescribing ivermectin though plenty have received threats when they have not. 
The evidence for the safety and efficacy of the immunizations is orders of magnitude better than the ivermectin studies to date. 
By definition if just Placebo effect, the upside is zero and the downside is arrhythmias.

[Gatzkek]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

That’s an easy one, no doctor is at risk of loosing their licence for prescribing ivermectin.  They are at the risk of liability for the off label prescribing of a drug with no proven efficacy and som significant risks. Actually loosing your licence requires some pretty big mis-steps.  
No physician has been threatened to loose their licence over prescribing ivermectin though plenty have received threats when they have not. 
The evidence for the safety and efficacy of the immunizations is orders of magnitude better than the ivermectin studies to date. 
By definition if just Placebo effect, the upside is zero and the downside is arrhythmias.

Good, I was hoping you'd chime in. So there have been no warnings submitted to doctors about prescribing ivermectin from your governing body. Ok. I was misinformed. I will try to get some.

The risks according to the doctor in the video are extremely low, less than tylenol or amoxicillin as examples. Is this not true? I've heard similar from several doctors.

A person can be vaccinated and still take ivermectin when they get sick. But you believe vaccines are safer as well. That's a shocker, and I don't believe it.

You don't believe the placebo effect can aid a person's recovery. Really?

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect

 

[DrJockitch]

1 minute ago, Gatzkek said:

Good, I was hoping you'd chime in. So there have been no warnings submitted to doctors about prescribing ivermectin from your governing body. Ok. I was misinformed. I will try to get some.

The risks according to the doctor in the video are extremely low, less than tylenol or amoxicillin as examples. Is this not true? I've heard similar from several doctors.

A person can be vaccinated and still take ivermectin when they get sick. But you believe vaccines are safer as well. That's a shocker, and I don't believe it.

You don't believe the placebo effect can aid a person's recovery. Really?

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect

 

We do get frequent updates about efficacy of various medications throughout the pandemic but it is more of here is the evidence good and bad.  We do need to work from a basic standard though. 
The Placebo effect is very consistent and can be gotten from the Placebo so no need to take the risk or deplete the stocks of the drug, save it for those who need it for evidence based reasons. Ivermectin is a life changer for many people and depleting the stocks has had a very deleterious effect on many who actually need it.
You can believe all you want about lack of safety of the vaccines but then you shouldn’t be quoting papers and evidence on other things that have inconsistent results and lack demonstrated efficacy. The quality of evidence is much greater on the vaccines, that is not debatable or at least not from somebody who has the background to interpret these things. 

[Gatzkek]

9 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

We do get frequent updates about efficacy of various medications throughout the pandemic but it is more of here is the evidence good and bad.  We do need to work from a basic standard though. 
The Placebo effect is very consistent and can be gotten from the Placebo so no need to take the risk or deplete the stocks of the drug, save it for those who need it for evidence based reasons. Ivermectin is a life changer for many people and depleting the stocks has had a very deleterious effect on many who actually need it.
You can believe all you want about lack of safety of the vaccines but then you shouldn’t be quoting papers and evidence on other things that have inconsistent results and lack demonstrated efficacy. The quality of evidence is much greater on the vaccines, that is not debatable or at least not from somebody who has the background to interpret these things. 

I'm glad the placebo effect is, in fact, real. 

 

If you believe the vaccines fight covid better than ivermectin there seems to be no argument, even the ivermectin studies show that. I don't believe the vaccines are proven to be safer than ivermectin (side effects).

[Ghostsof1915]

1 minute ago, Gatzkek said:

I'm glad the placebo effect is, in fact, real. 

 

If you believe the vaccines fight covid better than ivermectin there seems to be no argument, even the ivermectin studies show that. I don't believe the vaccines are proven to be safer than ivermectin (side effects).

It's not a matter of what you believe. It's a matter of what you can prove. 

[Gatzkek]

2 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

It's not a matter of what you believe. It's a matter of what you can prove. 

Nah. The world is full of uncertainty. Penicillin hasn't survived double blind studies for it's uses and this list is long apparently. Vaccines haven't proven safe over the long term, yet I took them anyway because I believed the odds were in my favour. Hope I was right. Nothing is proven. If it has been let me know. I'd appreciate the certainty.

[Gawdzukes]

16 hours ago, gizmo2337 said:

The metrics is "covid19 health policy measures".  This guy is a world expert in airborne transmission. BCCDC is currently #2 worst offender behind the Netherlands.

You could say she did a good job and the death rates are low. You could also say the health policy is very poor and not based in science and probably would have saved more lives done differently. See whichever angle you want to see. The rest of the world regularly mocks our PHO decisions because the provinces head scientist doesn't listen to science.

Just the other day, she was asked about the test kits in the warehouse, calling it an "urban myth" they existed. The news reporter followed up, and indeed there is 1.3M test kits in a warehouse. So on top of bad policy we are also getting lies. And no, we didn't need to save the test kits, there's 14M more on the way this month. Plus, the kits also have an expiry date.

Even the WHO admits covid is airborne, so why do we have to take off our N95 mask in the hospital and replace it with a surgical mask. It's lunacy, it's obvious, and none of the trained peer scientists are supporting such policy. And that's just one policy... the list is pretty long.
 

 

Well they obviously do that because they don't trust where you mask has been and the contagions they contain from the outside environment. They can't just give out thousands of N95's like candy everyday. A covid filled N95 mask isn't better than a sterilized face covering. Use your noggin.

 

I was in the hospital for 4 months and went through 5-6 masks a day going outside and moving from area to area. I always wondered why I had to always change masks. It helps if you actually try to understand the situation and work with others instead of just being a huge bitch about everything.

 

Some people just need to cause problems everywhere they go. That appears to be the case here.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[stawns]

16 hours ago, gizmo2337 said:

The metrics is "covid19 health policy measures".  This guy is a world expert in airborne transmission. BCCDC is currently #2 worst offender behind the Netherlands.

You could say she did a good job and the death rates are low. You could also say the health policy is very poor and not based in science and probably would have saved more lives done differently. See whichever angle you want to see. The rest of the world regularly mocks our PHO decisions because the provinces head scientist doesn't listen to science.

Just the other day, she was asked about the test kits in the warehouse, calling it an "urban myth" they existed. The news reporter followed up, and indeed there is 1.3M test kits in a warehouse. So on top of bad policy we are also getting lies. And no, we didn't need to save the test kits, there's 14M more on the way this month. Plus, the kits also have an expiry date.

Even the WHO admits covid is airborne, so why do we have to take off our N95 mask in the hospital and replace it with a surgical mask. It's lunacy, it's obvious, and none of the trained peer scientists are supporting such policy. And that's just one policy... the list is pretty long.
 

 

I don't think it's the mask as much as it's an outside mask coming in.  I know at the booster clinicbi went to, everyone had to get a new mask at the door

[JM_]

12 hours ago, gizmo2337 said:

Countries that are faring better do all the right things. Improving masks, ventilation is at top of the list, because that's how an airborne disease transmits. Getting the vax helps reduce severity of cases, but doesn't stop transmission. Japan is near the top of that list, go check their numbers. 

Fine you won't budge - Bonnie's credentials are the most important thing to you, I get it. If she had read even the most basic science, there would have already been a 100% N95 mask mandate in all hospitals (including patients)  because it's an airborne disease as stated by the WHO. I don't care what her credentials are, because it's about to harm a lot of people without just cause, including members of my family, friends, and community. People aren't afraid right now because this is a new unknown virus. They are afraid because better measures could have been put in place, and they weren't!

 

this is one of those, its not me its you times. You made a claim and you haven't backed it up.

 

[Gatzkek]

This is terrible. Triple vaccinated seniors rotting away in their rooms because chicken $&!# officials are afraid of another single covid death.  The last minute of this is really too much.

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/like-being-in-solitary-confinement-residents-families-angry-at-return-of-strict-lockdowns-in-long-term-care-1.5730999

Edited January 7, 2022 by Gatzkek

[Gawdzukes]

16 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

This is very strange that they would send someone away for wearing an N95 mask especially if they were fitted and certified for it.

What I took From Dr. Henry’s statement that vaccine clinics are not high risk areas was yeah she is right they are not. High risk areas are emerg departments, nursing homes and COVID wards. Vaccine clinics are screened (though honesty has been a BIG problem in this pandemic) and no higher risk than other forward facing medical clinics or services. 
They use a standardized mask and the only reason I would think they turn people away for wearing their own N95 is that they can’t certify fit or even that a “N95” mask is an N95 mask if they don’t provide them.  I think would be reasonable letting nurses and physicians working this clinic to let them wear a N95 mask they are certified to but saying you can provide your own mask leads to things like idiots walking around with thongs on their face for the wrong reasons. 
It may be idiot proofing with idiocy by saying everyone has to use the standard mask. 

Well this is exactly it. Also like I said in another post how do they guarantee you have handled your mask properly, have cleaned it fastidiously, and it's not dripping with Covid? I can only imagine the gross conditions of some of things people tried coming in with in the beginning. It's most likely borne out of some policy that they strive to guarantee no one comes in spreading Covid due to dirty PPE. As time progresses we find out what worked well and what, as in this case, may be somewhat wasted effort. 

 

One thing I will say is that it does ensure the basic societal requirement that everyone wears a mask or face covering ... and it also ensures these are brand new and not a source of infection. It seems pretty reasonable to me. I'm not sure if that guy understands giving everyone brand new N95 masks every time they enter the main doors isn't feasible in Canada in any stretch of the imagination. It's probably better than doing nothing.

 

I guess alternatively you could just turn most people away and just N95 the really sick.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[JM_]

26 minutes ago, Gatzkek said:

Nah. The world is full of uncertainty. Penicillin hasn't survived double blind studies for it's uses and this list is long apparently. Vaccines haven't proven safe over the long term, yet I took them anyway because I believed the odds were in my favour. Hope I was right. Nothing is proven. If it has been let me know. I'd appreciate the certainty.

if this is your logic process no wonder  you're confused. Penicillin was never going to be effective against every single type of bacteria. 

 

You are designing fake claims in your head you then use as analogies to not want to take a vaccine. Congrats, thats a heck of an achievement.

 

You are a great example of what I've been talking about re: informed consent. You clearly believe that you have done the work and have your conclusion. Nothing I say can change that, or any health professional. 

 

You are exactly the type of person we need to design restrictions for. 

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Gatzkek said:

This is terrible. Triple vaccinated seniors rotting away in their rooms because chicken $&!# officials are afraid of another single covid death.  The last minute of this is really too much.

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/like-being-in-solitary-confinement-residents-families-angry-at-return-of-strict-lockdowns-in-long-term-care-1.5730999

if it upsets you so much go get vaccinated and help end this. 

[DrJockitch]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

Well this is exactly it. Also like I said in another post how do they guarantee you have handled your mask properly, have cleaned it fastidiously, and it's not dripping with Covid? I can only imagine the gross conditions of some of things people tried coming in with in the beginning. It's most likely borne out of some policy that they strive to guarantee no one comes in spreading Covid due to dirty PPE. As time progresses we find out what worked well and what, as in this case, may be somewhat wasted effort. 

 

One thing I will say is that it does ensure the basic societal requirement that everyone wears a mask or face covering ... and it also ensures these are brand new and not a source of infection. It seems pretty reasonable to me. I'm not sure if that guy understands giving everyone brand new N95 masks every time they enter the main doors isn't feasible in Canada in any stretch of the imagination. It's probably better than doing nothing.

He actually has a valid point that Certified and fitted N95 masks should be worn in high risk areas, along with all the Other standard respiratory precautions such as eye protection. Now as mentioned, Dr. Henry is correct that vaccine clinics are not high-risk areas, no higher risk than a family medicine clinic and probably in fact lower risk than many. 
Masks can certainly be contaminated but that is unlikely to cause spread unless your passing dirty masks around. More that some of the masks people show up with are meant to satisfy other the requirement that they need to wear a mask, not a requirement that people wear effective masks. I see people in my office with essentially bejewelled lace masks, that is a fashion piece, not PPE. 
I also don’t believe that staff who are showing up in appropriate N95 masks are being sent away. 

[Gatzkek]

11 minutes ago, JM_ said:

if this is your logic process no wonder  you're confused. Penicillin was never going to be effective against every single type of bacteria. 

 

You are designing fake claims in your head you then use as analogies to not want to take a vaccine. Congrats, thats a heck of an achievement.

 

You are a great example of what I've been talking about re: informed consent. You clearly believe that you have done the work and have your conclusion. Nothing I say can change that, or any health professional. 

 

You are exactly the type of person we need to design restrictions for. 

Is uncertainty the same as confusion? I am confused about your post though. I don't understand it at all.

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, DrJockitch said:

He actually has a valid point that Certified and fitted N95 masks should be worn in high risk areas, along with all the Other standard respiratory precautions such as eye protection. Now as mentioned, Dr. Henry is correct that vaccine clinics are not high-risk areas, no higher risk than a family medicine clinic and probably in fact lower risk than many. 
Masks can certainly be contaminated but that is unlikely to cause spread unless your passing dirty masks around. More that some of the masks people show up with are meant to satisfy other the requirement that they need to wear a mask, not a requirement that people wear effective masks. I see people in my office with essentially bejewelled lace masks, that is a fashion piece, not PPE. 
I also don’t believe that staff who are showing up in appropriate N95 masks are being sent away. 

That I agree with as it should be common sense. I'm talking about the people walking in the front door/(showing up for work). To be honest though I don't anything about the workers per se.

 

If not to make sure you have a new clean mask what is purpose of replacing 

with  

 

when you walk in the front door, unless they are providing a new clean mask?

[Gatzkek]

17 minutes ago, JM_ said:

if it upsets you so much go get vaccinated and help end this. 

Why do you think I'm not vaccinated?