Jim Benning, An Excellent Evaluator of Talent, BUT NO GM!

[ImConfused]

6 hours ago, Heretic said:

 

 

 

According to Wikipedia, " He serves as the general manager of the Vancouver Canucks".

 

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, Pears said:

Interesting because I thought the consensus around Pettersson and Podkolzin were considered by most to be reaches/questionables at the time of their drafts. 

If I looked at the GDT from Petey's draft, I bet a lot of the people moaning about Benning right now also hated the pick.  There were pages and pages full of posters demanding Benning's head for that choice.

Edited January 24, 2021 by King Heffy

[Pears]

18 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

If I looked at the GDT from Petey's draft, I bet a lot of the people moaning about Benning right now also hated the pick.  There were pages and pages full of posters demanding Benning's head for that choice.

And then pivot to say Gradin convinced Benning to take him when he became a superstar .

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Pears said:

Interesting because I thought the consensus around Pettersson and Podkolzin were considered by most to be reaches/questionables at the time of their drafts. 

Podz wasn't a reach at all at ten ... a lot had him at 3-5...EP for sure was a reach, nobody had him at 5 ... 9-15 

 

Edit:   Out of every single JB draft he's the only one i picked right ... suggested before the draft they Podz might slip, and if he did we'd take him.   

Guys and gals need to settle down a little.   The team is going through some adversity at the moment - which builds character.   Our team needs support not a bunch of ninnies criticizing every move.   Shameful really.   And don't need rose coloured glasses, mine are clear - well actually i don't wear them.   Only one other time have i seen this much youthful talent in our lineup at once.   But go ahead and flame away. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

24 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

If I looked at the GDT from Petey's draft, I bet a lot of the people moaning about Benning right now also hated the pick.  There were pages and pages full of posters demanding Benning's head for that choice.

Me included.    Hate to admit but I wasn't crazy about that pick, wanted Glass.   Also wanted Bouchard and PLD/MT.... good thing I'm not running things.   Well time will tell for sure 

Edited January 24, 2021 by IBatch

[CanadianRugby]

19 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Excellent evaluator of talent?

 

Two words:  Virtanen Juolevi 

Gudbranson, Myers, Roussel, Sutter, Vey, Beagle, Eriksson...

[CanadianRugby]

1 hour ago, Pears said:

Interesting because I thought the consensus around Pettersson and Podkolzin were considered by most to be reaches/questionables at the time of their drafts. 

Really?  I remember analysts to right away say Petterson might be the most talented player in the draft, only question was his size.  Podz was said to be a for sure thing, but 2 years away.

 

Virtanen was a reach.  As he was a north/south physical guy but low hockey sense.  And OJ as there was no consensus top defenseman at where we were picking.  

[IBatch]

3 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Gudbranson, Myers, Roussel, Sutter, Vey, Beagle, 

Stick to Rugby 

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, CanadianRugby said:

Really?  I remember analysts to right away say Petterson might be the most talented player in the draft, only question was his size.  Podz was said to be a for sure thing, but 2 years away.

 

Virtanen was a reach.  As he was a north/south physical guy but low hockey sense.  And OJ as there was no consensus top defenseman at where we were picking.  

EP highest ranking was 9.   Podz was in the mix for 3.   JV was all over the map right into the second round.   OJ was a top ten pick.   If your going to do this get your facts straight. 

[CanadianRugby]

It wasn't just a lot of fans that were upset with this offseason. 

[CanadianRugby]

15 minutes ago, IBatch said:

EP highest ranking was 9. If your going to do this get your facts straight. 

 

If you're going to do this get your facts straight, and if you're trying to sound smart at least spell things correctly.

[Nucker 67]

The statements (Shah) above kind of make sense of things. The players don't seem connected. Benning removed a big part of that room (Marky and Tanev), could possibly be a reason why Pettersson has struggled this season. Apparently he was close to Marky, and we know Hughes was close to Tanev. Kind of gutted the team.  

[UFCanuck]

2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

The statements (Shah) above kind of make sense of things. The players don't seem connected. Benning removed a big part of that room (Marky and Tanev), could possibly be a reason why Pettersson has struggled this season. Apparently he was close to Marky, and we know Hughes was close to Tanev. Kind of gutted the team.  

When will they learn to stand on their own two feet. Mom and Dad won't be there forever! &^@#

Edited January 25, 2021 by playboi19

[ItsMillerTime]

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

Honestly should be contenders now?   In what hockey universe does that happen...not in this one.   

Lol what type of statement is that? Obviously not in this universe because it didn't happen. If Canucks could of been able to use their cap space better they 100% could of been contenders... Look at who they lost and some of Benning's signings. Replace those signing with shorter length contracts and some better signings in general. Canucks could of brought back in those key pieces they lost in the offseason and maybe add some better depth too. 

[hockeygod77]

OK BENNING IS THE WORST GM FOR SURE..like i said the errors i see are gudbranson mcann vey erickson and the rest like beagle roused and sutter i can live with they are hard working players...rousel i think has lost his game in away..id like to see ..drafing he has made some poor selections and no im not talking boeser petey demo Hollander...podzkin im still on thence but i would've passed on him..now oili benn just avg players but ok for a pass and getting rid of tanev was a mistake but had to for money so why not pull off a trade if he knew this would happen like...ok so jim needs to be better at his shelling and dealing

[Provost]

When rating Benning’s draft prowess... we can use a “control group” to look at who we would have had each 1st round if we didn’ bother to do our own scouting at all and just picked the highest ranked player available off the ISS board when we selected, or looked back at MyNHLDraft which shows all the major draft ranking lists at the time of the draft:

 

2014 - We would have ended up with Nylander instead of Jake by following ISS.  This one has an odd year as different rankings had a wide range of opinions but the weighted consensus rankings gives us Perlini or Ehlers depending on which rankings you include. Only one notable ranking had Jake as high as 6th and several had him way later.  Interestingly, we still end up with McCann either way and he isn’t playing with us so he can be ignored.  We do better with this pick by just listening to the draft boards.

 

2015 - We end up with Konecny over Boeser from ISS.  I think this one is pretty much a wash.  Their numbers are pretty comparable.  I think they are both good picks late in the round who have outperformed their draft position.

 

2016 - We end up with Matthew Tkachuk over Juolevi based on ISS.  I think it is fair to say we do better by listening to them on this one.

 

2017 - We have Vilardi instead of Petterson based on ISS.  That would have been tragic.  The only other possible pick just based on weighting other draft ranking boards would be taking Glass.  Only one serious draft board had Petterson to be picked in that spot, most had him 7-13th.

 

2018 - ISS has us taking Wahlstrom over Hughes.  Most of the rest of the boards give either Hughes or Wahlstrom in that spot.  I think it is safe to say that Benning wins this one over the ISS board.  The other draft rankings gave a consensus pick of Hughes so we could have ended up with him either way by listening to the field.

 

The 2019/20 drafts we can’t really rate as it is way too early.

 

In the end the difference is:

 

Virtanan, Boeser, Juolevi, Petterson, Hughes

 

instead of:

William Nylander, Konecny, Matthew Tkachuk, Vilardi, Wahlstrom 

 

Benning definitely beats the ISS board I think by having taken the two best players in the bunch he beats the consensus boards by a little less as he probably still ends up with Hughes, but has Glass instead of Petterson.

 

I don’t think it points to the genius leave that some are professing though.

He missed on 2, is a wash on 1, and beats two (he beats these two by a lot, at least so far).

 

Edit.  An interesting note is following Craig Button’s list for highest available player left to us when we drafted  gives us:

2014- Ehlers, Kempe

2015 - Boeser (he had him 9th)

2016 - Matthew Tkachuk

2017 - Glass

2018 - Hughes
 

We miss on Petterson, but probably end up better overall with Buttons picks overall than Benning.  

 

Tkachuk-Horvat-Ehlers

Kempe-XX- Boeser

XX-Glass-XX

Edited January 25, 2021 by Provost

[D-Money]

13 hours ago, coolboarder said:

Benning will have its opportunity to get the better free agent this summer with boatload of cap space to bolster the roster easily.

Say what? 

Most of the money going out the door will be required to extend Pettersson and Hughes. Unless Eriksson can be dumped, and/or Seattle takes Myers in the expansion draft, things are going to be just as tight (if not tighter) next offseason.

 

[IBatch]

16 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

 

If you're going to do this get your facts straight, and if you're trying to sound smart at least spell things correctly.

Which one is this anyways?  Someone's blog?   Not International Scouting Services or a name i'd be too concerned about...

April 27th article ...

Bob McKenzie 11 (mid-season) 

THW 13

ISS (April) 16 

Craig Button 12th

Jeff Marek 27

THN 9 - pre-draft ...  A fair amount has been written about him since the draft, why teams passed on him, and for sure he wasn't given the recognition by teams scouting departments, as well as the guys that actually make a living doing this sort of thing.    Delmore continues to get credit for the "discovery" and he wasn't even the one who did....THN did a cover with him on it, if your interested it's all in there.    Trying to say he fell on our lap and he was ranked around where he was picked - again the vast majority had him outside of the top ten...speaking of which - not that GMs play all their cards but the only other team that was rumoured to be remotely interested in him was NYR...

 

Also - as an aside - I was one of those "fools" that didn't like the QHs pick.   With EP i was mostly indifferent although i had Glass, Middlestadt and Valardi as our best options, in that order.   As of right now it's either Heiskanen or EP as the best of the draft - expect things will change over time.   The fact is, five teams passed on him - and that EP was firmly our first choice.    Trying to make it out like it was both luck and a fluke isn't accurate at all.   

 

With QHs ... well right now he's not playing like a top player is he.   Bouchard was my first pick, followed by Dobson.   As of right now both these guys are still considered top 30 prospects and wouldn't at all think that Hughes draft story is over yet.   Hate to say this, but it could end up becoming a regrettable pick .... it happens.  Joe Thornton, Stamkos and Jack Hughes all came highly touted - none of them had a great rookie season.    Point is - even though there is some evidence on how well EP and QHs are - it's not a big enough sample size.   

 

As a fan base patience isn't a virtue on this site.    JB made IMO, the correct long term solutions for the group - and provided enough for the team to have a similar season as last year - nothing more and nothing less.    We aren't CAL, with most of their players in their primes, rather 2-4 years behind that.   Made perfect sense for CAL and they for sure should be the better team this year.   A lot need to go right for us to repeat what happened .... it still could - that said a down year and another draft like we've been having for the most part - is the better long term solution and i'm sure from ownership down they know it.    Best year possible to do this from a business viewpoint as no bums in seats anyways .... 

Edited January 25, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, ItsMillerTime said:

Lol what type of statement is that? Obviously not in this universe because it didn't happen. If Canucks could of been able to use their cap space better they 100% could of been contenders... Look at who they lost and some of Benning's signings. Replace those signing with shorter length contracts and some better signings in general. Canucks could of brought back in those key pieces they lost in the offseason and maybe add some better depth too. 

Really?   We could match up with veteran teams like Vegas, TB - or even Boston, WSH without LE, Sutter, Beagle and AR (two of which helped us be the best face off team in the playoffs- not that it mattered much as we weren't a good possession team).   Who exactly would you put into that lineup instead if we didn't have these guys?   Even if somehow we managed to get Stone and not Vegas - it's not enough to be contenders right now.   The core is way too young to do that.   Only CHI managed a cup since the cap with their future stars on their ELCs - Toews final year.    Yes we had a good run - no we are not contenders - and wouldn't be now even with the extra 6-9 million in cap space.   Not until EP, QHs and BB put the type of effort and play in that Horvat is now - and there usually takes TIME.    Something a fair amount of posters don't seem to get .   CAR is on their 3rd core since their cup.   Faulk is gone ... OEL is still around..when was COL last a contender?   15 years ago or more...  the team has shown it can dominate good teams ... it's also shown it can suck for long stretches.    We won't have a window until the core grows up and more is added.   

Edited January 25, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, aGENT said:

CDC - Excellent at prematurely panicking, but NOT AT BEING CALM AND RATIONAL!

aGENT ... like usual the voice of reason.

 

So far our preseason is wrapped up - new players have had only game situations to prepare for the most part,  JB provided enough for us to stay flat assuming all the play was about the same, yet the sky is falling, we should fire a coach who was picked by some as an Adams runner up before the season started, fire a GM whose overall game has been up trending for four years (out of curiuosity, over the past decade - who else has added legitimate top four RHD via free agency, traded a first for a guy like Miller (check out what Vegas paid for Tatar, or last year Coleman lol), and added a top pairing LHD/RHD in his prime, under a Ballard comparable contract - for a 3rd rounder)  hint nobody...  JB has gone from a  zero to a hero as far as GMs go - and for me at least - cemented his legacy by not doing ruining our prospect pool and at least one core player  to keep Markstrom and Tanev.   His biggest failure outside of LE, was allowing his young stars to enter the lineup and make an impact a year earlier then the contracts allowed for better support.    That's a problem i'd take any day compared to the alternative - which just happens to be MT, Glass, Bouchard and someone worse then Podz.   Good grief folks.   There are 31 other GMs now.   He has to present a good front and believe in his guys - but don't think for a second that things as of right now - are not following a script he's not preparing for as well.