Jim Benning, An Excellent Evaluator of Talent, BUT NO GM!

[oldnews]

CDC: AN ABUNDANT SOURCE OF ALL-CAPS and ONE LINERS, but substance, not so much!

[ItsMillerTime]

14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Bring up "tons of underdogs who won the cup while their kids were on ELCs"...actually just bring up the "tons" of underdogs any era.   You've lost all credibility your first paragraph to me at least.  Also brush up on your reading comprehension.   Never said COL wasn't a contender - said it's been 15 or more years since they were the last time.   Funny stuff. 

"when was COL last a contender?   15 years ago or more..." Talk about reading comprehension you legit just said when were they last a contender? It can be easily taken as two ways. Just bad wording there simple mistake on the internet... as well as  "CAR is on their 3rd core since their cup.   Faulk is gone ... OEL is still around..". You even said before OEL was on the Hurricanes. He has been on the Coyotes his whole career. I am questioning your knowledge about hockey... As what I said about underdogs I meant teams that aren't the favourites to win the cup. It's not like there is a for sure pick for the Stanley cup each year. You don't know your hockey as well as you think stop trying to nit pick an argument. You lost all your credibility by arguing with me about a hypothetical I made that the Canucks should be contenders. By arguing with me about that hypothetical you must think Benning couldn't of done a better job. You really think that was the best he could do? You think that the bad signings he did there wasn't any better options he could have done? You cannot win this argument because it's a hypothetical... Do I need to reply again to you or will you finally get it this time? In the NHL anything can happen use your imagination your view seems so pessimistic. The Canucks made it to the 2nd round game 7... Imagine if that team was just a bit stronger a bit better. It easily could have been if some of those signings didn't happen. In what world do the Canucks not have a chance to compete for a cup if they brought the same team from last years playoffs, but it's better... 

[CanadianRugby]

41 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Most isn't ALL.   And the ones that matter i posted in response ... if you keep this up i will start quoting what was said both at the time and a year later for those that didn't have him on their radar.   The Canucks did.   Yet your trying to illustrate that he dropped on our lap.   So far only Heiskanen has a case for the best player out of that draft - but go ahead and carry on. 

No. I said analysts said he might be the most talented guy in the draft left when we drafted him.  Then responded to someone that said highest he was ranked was #9.  Go ahead and quote me from the draft thread, I was happy we got him.  

[wai_lai416]

Tbh I think we missed our windows of opportunity this year when we had to let player walk due to cap. Ep and hughes alone will eat up whatever cap space freed up by eriksson Sutter beagle.. let say they both get 7-8mil each.. that's almost a 14 mil increase... and then Horvat and boeser will be due again in a few years.. so can someone enlighten me how we gonna improve elsewhere? If all the free cap space will go to our 2 stars? Where we gonna get another top 6? And we putting plugs to play the bottom 6 and defense?

[spur1]

5 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

Tbh I think we missed our windows of opportunity this year when we had to let player walk due to cap. Ep and hughes alone will eat up whatever cap space freed up by eriksson Sutter beagle.. let say they both get 7-8mil each.. that's almost a 14 mil increase... and then Horvat and boeser will be due again in a few years.. so can someone enlighten me how we gonna improve elsewhere? If all the free cap space will go to our 2 stars? Where we gonna get another top 6? And we putting plugs to play the bottom 6 and defense?

You missed Bear and  Luongo’s recapture. 

[wai_lai416]

10 minutes ago, spur1 said:

You missed Bear and  Luongo’s recapture. 

Yes and u still need to replace bottom 6 players after all of them are gone. So u need to fill at least 2-3 bottom 6 maybe replace edler and possibly find another top 4 and fill another top 6 and maybe a goalie too depending on how demko holtby plays out 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, ItsMillerTime said:

"when was COL last a contender?   15 years ago or more..." Talk about reading comprehension you legit just said when were they last a contender? It can be easily taken as two ways. Just bad wording there simple mistake on the internet... as well as  "CAR is on their 3rd core since their cup.   Faulk is gone ... OEL is still around..". You even said before OEL was on the Hurricanes. He has been on the Coyotes his whole career. I am questioning your knowledge about hockey... As what I said about underdogs I meant teams that aren't the favourites to win the cup. It's not like there is a for sure pick for the Stanley cup each year. You don't know your hockey as well as you think stop trying to nit pick an argument. You lost all your credibility by arguing with me about a hypothetical I made that the Canucks should be contenders. By arguing with me about that hypothetical you must think Benning couldn't of done a better job. You really think that was the best he could do? You think that the bad signings he did there wasn't any better options he could have done? You cannot win this argument because it's a hypothetical... Do I need to reply again to you or will you finally get it this time? In the NHL anything can happen use your imagination your view seems so pessimistic. The Canucks made it to the 2nd round game 7... Imagine if that team was just a bit stronger a bit better. It easily could have been if some of those signings didn't happen. In what world do the Canucks not have a chance to compete for a cup if they brought the same team from last years playoffs, but it's better... 

OEL is still around is referencing ARI who i've also brought up in defense  of our rebuild... guess i'm assuming the audience on here has a better understanding of the league and what's going on - and for the most part the CDC doesn't seem to mind - but you do.   To break it down into simple terms for you:  COL hasn't been competitive since Forsberg and Sakic - hence the 15 year comment,  figured most folks would understand it's taken 15 years to get back into contention.   Not you.   CAR missed the playoffs for almost a decade and ARI is still struggling.   Detroit - our closest comparable given over a 14 year period nobody won more then Detroit, SJ and Vancouver - they are also paying the piper ... Larkin and Horvat aren't much different in age right?   Holland the best GM in the league for a decade by all accounts couldn't re-build the wings twice could he ... my mistake with you is exactly what your suggesting - a lack of hockey knowledge.   Sometimes i get the date slightly off - but i don't have to use the internet to fact check because it's all upstairs.   And you've missed the point entirely - i'm suggesting JB had done at least an above average job of things - we missed four playoffs and then had the fourth best run we've ever had.   What is it exactly that you don't like about what i'm posting?  Spelling errors?   OEL is part of ARI third core too ... sorry i didn't spell that out for you 

 

Edit:  I'm surprised you feel the math is there to make the team better then last year.  It wasn't.   And for the 10th time - this is exactly what i hoped JB would do - as in not sign any of the UFAs, take some short term pain for the long term gain.   JM contract will almost certainly become and anchor for CAL - not that i blame them given their cores age - a solid move for them.   And i doubt Tanev will survive even a limited season - love the guy but when's the last time he's played more then 70 games? 

Edited January 25, 2021 by IBatch

[Hairy Kneel]

This mess started with the twins high contracts then trying to add UFAs like LE  and our expensive 3rd and 4th liners, all to try and go for the twins last playoff run. It was unrealistic. It was hope and a prayer spending which we are paying for now. 

 

[davidgoliath]

On 1/24/2021 at 8:16 AM, Provost said:

Any time there is a ranking of GMs, Benning sits at or near the bottom.

 

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2020/11/30/nhl-power-rankings-ranking-the-nhl-general-managers/

 

The most important metric is wins and Benning is sub 500 over his career and we are again currently dead last (when you equalize for game played)  in the league in his 7th season.  No active GM with his record has kept their job as long as he has.

 

There was optimism around the team having made a step in the right direction last season, but the offseason wasn’t good.  All the players we lost were outperforming their contracts and the opportunity cost of not exiting bad money meant we couldn’t sign other players.

 

The only reason we have any hope at all is because we have been one of the worst teams in the league for many years and keep drafting high.  If we are in that position again a little farther into this season he should lose his job, he is extremely lucky to still have it right now.

 

Linden is no great shakes as an executive, but we would certainly be in better shape if we hadn’t signed all those veterans that all reports say he was against.  I take Linden/Brackett over Benning/Weisbrod... and apparently those were the two main camps in the front office.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Benning may be ok at talent evaluation but is lousy at judging character and considering the value of team spirit and friendships. When Horvat speaks out he is being very diplomatic but he reflects a team that is depressed at losing part of their team brotherhood. EP 40 in particular looks to be in mourning. Not signing Stetcher and Tofolli at least was very destructive to morale. I’m sure that fellow Swede, Markstrom is also missed greatly (though he may have become unaffordable). And Tanev a warrior whose absence shows just how little will supreme dedication be rewarded. Sad.

[ItsMillerTime]

26 minutes ago, IBatch said:

OEL is still around is referencing ARI who i've also brought up in defense  of our rebuild... guess i'm assuming the audience on here has a better understanding of the league and what's going on - and for the most part the CDC doesn't seem to mind - but you do.   To break it down into simple terms for you:  COL hasn't been competitive since Forsberg and Sakic - hence the 15 year comment,  figured most folks would understand it's taken 15 years to get back into contention.   Not you.   CAR missed the playoffs for almost a decade and ARI is still struggling.   Detroit - our closest comparable given over a 14 year period nobody won more then Detroit, SJ and Vancouver - they are also paying the piper ... Larkin and Horvat aren't much different in age right?   Holland the best GM in the league for a decade by all accounts couldn't re-build the wings twice could he ... my mistake with you is exactly what your suggesting - a lack of hockey knowledge.   Sometimes i get the date slightly off - but i don't have to use the internet to fact check because it's all upstairs.   And you've missed the point entirely - i'm suggesting JB had done at least an above average job of things - we missed four playoffs and then had the fourth best run we've ever had.   What is it exactly that you don't like about what i'm posting?  Spelling errors?   OEL is part of ARI third core too ... sorry i didn't spell that out for you 

 

Edit:  I'm surprised you feel the math is there to make the team better then last year.  It wasn't.   And for the 10th time - this is exactly what i hoped JB would do - as in not sign any of the UFAs, take some short term pain for the long term gain.   JM contract will almost certainly become and anchor for CAL - not that i blame them given their cores age - a solid move for them.   And i doubt Tanev will survive even a limited season - love the guy but when's the last time he's played more then 70 games? 

You don't get it... Please stop wasting my time. I would continue talking, but you really missed the ball here and altogether your points and everything you brought up mean nothing. You keep trying to argue things that I'm not even arguing. 

[bree2]

2 minutes ago, davidgoliath said:

Benning may be ok at talent evaluation but is lousy at judging character and considering the value of team spirit and friendships. When Horvat speaks out he is being very diplomatic but he reflects a team that is depressed at losing part of their team brotherhood. EP 40 in particular looks to be in mourning. Not signing Stetcher and Tofolli at least was very destructive to morale. I’m sure that fellow Swede, Markstrom is also missed greatly (though he may have become unaffordable). And Tanev a warrior whose absence shows just how little will supreme dedication be rewarded. Sad.

Tofolli  i think was asking more from us than what he settled with Montreal, Markstrom wanted 6 x 6 and we couldn't do it, same as Tanev,  i am sure Benning would have kept them if he could,  but they  didn't care about our team as much as they cared about the money and length of time

[Honky Cat]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

MOST had him ranked 9 or above - at least the ones the mattered.  You and Rugby Fan are reaching for straws if you think EP dropped on our lap.   Glass, Mittlestadt and Valardi were ranked higher on MOST lists that matter amongst others.   I study this stuff every year.   Good grief you guys are grasping at straws... 

Haha,I was replying 'against' his claim.

He wasn't the consensus #5..Great pick by the Canucks

[Provost]

1 hour ago, bree2 said:

Tofolli  i think was asking more from us than what he settled with Montreal, Markstrom wanted 6 x 6 and we couldn't do it, same as Tanev,  i am sure Benning would have kept them if he could,  but they  didn't care about our team as much as they cared about the money and length of time

All of Toffoli, Stecher, and Tanev after they left said they basically didn’t hear anything from the team and no negotiations happened.

Tanev said he was told to wait and finally got a call after the free agency frenzy from the Canucks basically telling him they had other irons in the fire but they might call him later.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Provost

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

All of Toffoli, Stecher, and Tanev after they left said they basically didn’t hear anything from the team and no negotiations happened.

Tanev said he was told to wait and finally got a call after the free agency frenzy from the Canucks basically telling him they had other irons in the fire but they might call him later.

Markstrom was a non starter for JB at that price - can't blame either sides for that.   Tanev eventually got a short version of what he got from Calgary offered and turned it down.   TT got nothing but a little lip service from what i could find ... makes sense given the team never could afford him to start with - only able to add because BB was injured...

[Provost]

47 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Markstrom was a non starter for JB at that price - can't blame either sides for that.   Tanev eventually got a short version of what he got from Calgary offered and turned it down.   TT got nothing but a little lip service from what i could find ... makes sense given the team never could afford him to start with - only able to add because BB was injured...

I didn’t say anything about Markstrom at all, it was just a matter of too much term and money.

 

We had money available, we didn’t have qualify Virtanen and sign Hamonic... we could have found a way to afford Toffoli.  Even a Sutter buyout does that, or exiting some of a bad contract by trading an asset.

 

Benning didn’t even try to keep any of our UFAs except Markstrom.  If he could have afforded to be in that conversation and be in on dealing for OEL, he could find way less money for the other guys.  He just didn’t want to.

 

I can see why other players are annoyed.  

[iceman64]

On 23/01/2021 at 6:28 PM, Seeker1 said:

JIM BENNING HAS HAD AMPLE TIME TO demonstrate that he is a good GM.Unfortunately, all he has shown that he is an above average, perhaps, a very good HEAD SCOUT. His decision making, and his asset management  has been very, very POOR.(giving away Draft choices and receiving little or nothing in return) It is long past due for the Canucks to replace this MANAGEMENT TEAM, and replace it with a younger more savvy, competent GM, not just a Head Scout, with management aspirations.

 

 For all of Benning's "good drafting," the Vancouver Canucks have made little progress to become a top five team, and in fact, are still a stagnant, mediocre team, despite having talents like Hughes, and Petterson.

 

Ownership, you need to find, and put into place, a talented, new management team, NOT PREVIOUSLY FIRED RE-TREADS.

 

The Canucks have been  in the NHL for over 50 years, and have yet to WIN ONE STANLEY CUP.The Fan Base is tired, and angry, over the continued MEDIOCRITY OF THE VANCOUVER CANUCKS. Will it take another 25 years, or 50 more years for this Canuck team to bungle, and fumble their way to more future INCOMPETENCE?

 

The Vancouver Canucks seemingly have a good scouting staff, but GM, and Assistant GM, who have had a good run as executives with the Canucks, are the KEYSTONE COPS, OF THE NHL.

 

I submit, GM, AND ASSISTANT GM NEED TO BE REMOVED AS SOON AS THE 2021 SEASON IS OVER!

you have more nerve than Dick Tracy calling someone other than yourself 'incompetant" 

 

[ShawnAntoski]

On 1/23/2021 at 6:28 PM, Seeker1 said:

JIM BENNING HAS HAD AMPLE TIME TO demonstrate that he is a good GM.Unfortunately, all he has shown that he is an above average, perhaps, a very good HEAD SCOUT. His decision making, and his asset management  has been very, very POOR.(giving away Draft choices and receiving little or nothing in return) It is long past due for the Canucks to replace this MANAGEMENT TEAM, and replace it with a younger more savvy, competent GM, not just a Head Scout, with management aspirations.

 

 For all of Benning's "good drafting," the Vancouver Canucks have made little progress to become a top five team, and in fact, are still a stagnant, mediocre team, despite having talents like Hughes, and Petterson.

 

Ownership, you need to find, and put into place, a talented, new management team, NOT PREVIOUSLY FIRED RE-TREADS.

 

The Canucks have been  in the NHL for over 50 years, and have yet to WIN ONE STANLEY CUP.The Fan Base is tired, and angry, over the continued MEDIOCRITY OF THE VANCOUVER CANUCKS. Will it take another 25 years, or 50 more years for this Canuck team to bungle, and fumble their way to more future INCOMPETENCE?

 

The Vancouver Canucks seemingly have a good scouting staff, but GM, and Assistant GM, who have had a good run as executives with the Canucks, are the KEYSTONE COPS, OF THE NHL.

 

I submit, GM, AND ASSISTANT GM NEED TO BE REMOVED AS SOON AS THE 2021 SEASON IS OVER!

Since you are asking for the heads of the management team you might as well go scorched earth and include the staff..  If you were the owner who would you hire to replace the our Bumbling GM but I do agree that Weisbrod needs to be replaced...

Edited January 26, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[spur1]

Can you smell what JB is cooking?  

[Ms.Glitter]

19 hours ago, kilgore said:

Righteous rant

 

Even his draft age evaluation is suspect IMO.  It was only after Linden pushed Benning to hire a full time chief amateur scout and promote the talented Judd Brackett that the Canucks drafting suddenly improved.   His fist year he found Boeser and Gaudette. When Benning had taken more of the reigns in the beginning he had insisted on Virtanen when Nylander and Ehlers were there. In 2016 we took Joulevi over Tkachuk, and Keller.  You could say that Brackette, being then in charge of amateur scouting,  blew the evaluation of Juolevi, in the 2016 draft, but as Ian Macintyre said about that decision:. ...

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-mailbag-whats-going-gm-jim-benning-judd-brackett/

 

But Juolevi was Benning’s choice back in 2016 because the GM wanted a defenceman and loved what he saw from the Finn at the world juniors. He could have chosen Mikhail Sergachev or Charlie McAvoy. Benning is believed to have gone with Brackett’s first-round recommendation ever since. 

 

 

.

 

Thanks !  I generally feel better after having a little rant.   

You wrote an excellent post.  I too would rather have Tanev and Stecher, these guys were playing so hard for each other. We were getting so close last year. 

In the current reality though , it looks like the upcoming Petterson and Hughes contracts will not be nearly as pricey.

 

Brackett was also a very valuable piece of the staff. I wish that he was still here.

[stawns]

On 1/23/2021 at 6:28 PM, Seeker1 said:

JIM BENNING HAS HAD AMPLE TIME TO demonstrate that he is a good GM.Unfortunately, all he has shown that he is an above average, perhaps, a very good HEAD SCOUT. His decision making, and his asset management  has been very, very POOR.(giving away Draft choices and receiving little or nothing in return) It is long past due for the Canucks to replace this MANAGEMENT TEAM, and replace it with a younger more savvy, competent GM, not just a Head Scout, with management aspirations.

 

 For all of Benning's "good drafting," the Vancouver Canucks have made little progress to become a top five team, and in fact, are still a stagnant, mediocre team, despite having talents like Hughes, and Petterson.

 

Ownership, you need to find, and put into place, a talented, new management team, NOT PREVIOUSLY FIRED RE-TREADS.

 

The Canucks have been  in the NHL for over 50 years, and have yet to WIN ONE STANLEY CUP.The Fan Base is tired, and angry, over the continued MEDIOCRITY OF THE VANCOUVER CANUCKS. Will it take another 25 years, or 50 more years for this Canuck team to bungle, and fumble their way to more future INCOMPETENCE?

 

The Vancouver Canucks seemingly have a good scouting staff, but GM, and Assistant GM, who have had a good run as executives with the Canucks, are the KEYSTONE COPS, OF THE NHL.

 

I submit, GM, AND ASSISTANT GM NEED TO BE REMOVED AS SOON AS THE 2021 SEASON IS OVER!

 

Change the record already