In defense of EP & QH

[Pickly]

49 minutes ago, khay said:

Well said.

 

I think it's the McDavid effect (or Crosby effect or generational player effect). Since McDavid/Crosby reached his peak production by the age of 20-21, everyone should  reach their peak production by age 21. It's ridiculous.

 

That's a little bet farfetched to lump 'everyone' in to having this belief or comparison to two generational talents. I think fans are frustrated right now that the teams two best talents are struggling and are looking for reasons why.

 

My take on it is like many others, that the league has figured out how to neutralize Petey and Hughes and now it's up to those two to figure out how to adapt. It happens with all great players. People have to remember to that these two players are still kids especially the way they are physically built its going to take a few years for their bodies to mature to be able to handle the rigours of a full NHL season and playoffs without regularly getting worn down. Before the Sedins reached their peak they struggled with this too but over time they trained hard and became world class athletes. It definitely helps when your built like a Bo Horvat coming into the league and your physically ready for it. 

[Convincing John]

I think everyone misinterpreted your evaluation. What I got was they’re too young to be expected to carry a team to the Stanley cup and we shouldn’t have such high expectations right now. 

[nergish]

Quinn is still carrying the team offensively, he’s just been egregiously bad defensively in the last 3-4 games.

[6YPE]

Watching this team is like a NHL 21 CHEL drop in game with a poor connection... zero structure, no one having a clue what's going on and always a little bit behind the play.... they'll be fine. Imo this year is a write off anyways, I don't expect this team to be a "contender " for at least another year or two. I'm just happy we have hockey to watch... 

[thrago]

18 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

EP & QH are good enough to be your main core, but not good enough to drag a team to victory. 

 

These two guys are just entering their prime and will get more consistent, they're straight up playing bad right now but the talent didn't just go away.  

 They are years away from their Prime, like 3-5 years away not even close to entering it now.

[Junkyard Dog]

This is Horvat's 7th year.

 

Took time for Bo to become the player he is now. Remember that season where he was complete trash for the first half of the year then lit it up the 2nd half?

 

Even Boeser went through trouble just as recent as last year with his goal scoring.

 

Hughes is a 2nd year player and Petey is a 3rd. In Mackinnon's 3rd year he had two 5 game scoreless stints and it wasn't till his 5th year when he became a legit top player.

 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

17 hours ago, nergish said:

Quinn is still carrying the team offensively, he’s just been egregiously bad defensively in the last 3-4 games.

Yeah, a little crazy that he’s being discussed the way he is.

Hughes is on a 70+ points/82 pace right now, and if he keeps doing what he’s doing in terms of offensive production, he’ll be a Norris finalist.

 

Defensively, yeah, there have been some lapses. But the team defence has been so god awful (improved last game), so it’s not surprising that Huggy has had some rough plays. 
 

And he doesn’t look 100%, physically speaking. Skating looks a little hindered, even laboured at times (for Quinn), and he’s lost his edges on moves that are pretty much unconscious for him normally. 
 

But the numbers don’t lie. Hughes is tied for the league lead in points scored by defencemen. And unlike Petry (who is tied with Hughes), Huggy’s production looks more sustainable, and not just from a hot start. It could even increase, if and when Petey and the Lotto line ever gets going, and the team actually starts winning more games than they lose.

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Yeah, a little crazy that he’s being discussed the way he is.

Hughes is on a 70+ points/82 pace right now, and if he keeps doing what he’s doing in terms of offensive production, he’ll be a Norris finalist.

 

Defensively, yeah, there have been some lapses. But the team defence has been so god awful (improved last game), so it’s not surprising that Huggy has had some rough plays. 
 

And he doesn’t look 100%, physically speaking. Skating looks a little hindered, even laboured at times (for Quinn), and he’s lost his edges on moves that are pretty much unconscious for him normally. 
 

But the numbers don’t lie. Hughes is tied for the league lead in points scored by defencemen. And unlike Petry (who is tied with Hughes), Huggy’s production looks more sustainable, and not just from a hot start. It could even increase, if and when Petey and the Lotto line ever gets going, and the team actually starts winning more games than they lose.

If he is, there is something broken about the Norris criteria - and admittedly that is more and more the case.

 

If he continues doing what he's doing....let's look at what he's doing.

7 pts in 8 games, 6 of them assists, half of those assists on the powerplay.

-7 is highly problematic, obviously.  Not only is that the team worst, but it's come in the following deployment:

70.1% offensive zone starts - highest on the blueline by quite a margin.

50.3% corsi is not particularly 'good' in context (ie Schmidt's is 50.0%, with 42.4% ozone starts).

4:47 / game of powerplay ice-time - puts those 3 pp assists in a different light (ie nearly 40 minutes of pp ice time already).

Most concerning are his goal differentials (excluding Rafferty and Chatfield's minute samples).

4.1 on ice goals against per 60 5on5 = worst on the blueline

2.4 on ice goals for = worst on the blueline.

 

As has been the case thus far in his early career - obviously high upside - however not very good 'possession' numbers, and poor goal metrics 5 on 5 (last year had a blueine worst 3.5 on ice goals against per 60 - playing primarily with Tanev - and a blueline worst -10, in spite of, again, situational use tailored for his success.

 

Of course - this is all to be 'expected' with a rookie and sophomore pmd that jumped straight into the NHL out of college.

 

But what is absolutely does not indicate - is a Norris defenseman.  The Norris is/was supposed to designate the NHL's best defenseman - ie a guy that can play in all situations, that is both productive and a high end defensive blueliner, someone that can handle hard minutes, any matchups you throw at them,  - ie a player like Mark Giordano, for example.

 

Quinn Hughes is not that - not remotely close.  The day that Norris trophies start getting handed out to sophomores with the kind of outcomes that Hughes has is the day the NHL has become a highlight reel league that has devolved the Norris into a relatively meaningless scoring race.

 

And don't mistake this for a 'criticism' of Hughes - as I said, these outcomes are to be expected at this stage of his career - the young man is a remarkable talent that is also developing his play without the puck.

 

Where I'd agree with you is that he doesn't quite look like himself.  I brought this up in a GDT - the game he was at his worst thus far in his career, with a number of vacant efforts (beaten easily on the rush) and uncharacteristic giveaways.  Someone mentioned the hit he took from McMe1st and it made sense (he's also been -9 since opening night).  I agree that he seems to be fighting through something, but regardless, he's nowhere near ready to be considered a Norris candidate imo (it's akin to suggesting his rookie season was the 3rd best in Canucks blueline history - that too is really premature and a one-dimensional take).

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by oldnews

[RogersTowell]

We're 8 games in.  Sure, this was posted before last nights game, but that's kind of the point.  Our goal tending has been mediocre, which won't win you a lot of games with the style we've become accustomed to in the last couple of years under Green.  Hughes is producing almost a point a game in a team 'slump' and I have no worries about him.  Petterson is in a slump, but there are things to his game that I'm happy to see.  He's starting to pursue the puck hard and he's able to compete better physically.  Now he just has to get the juggling balls and unicycle out again and get his equilibrium back.  Work on that one timer a bit more too.

 

I'm guessing nobody remembers a couple of years ago when the Blues were last in the league in January.  Who won the cup that year?  There are adjustments to be made but there are some good core pieces.  Demko is still potentially a great goalie and he showed that last night.  Holtby has been playing like a #2 guy and Demko's first three performances were pretty soft but they can both be much better, which changes the picture dramatically.  Last night, Demko did what he was supposed to, which is rob players on a number of occasions.  In the mean time, the rest of the team kept the good scoring chances down for the most part.

 

While Beagle and Sutter are probably over paid, they do perform some very important duties.  They are responsible defensively, play hard PK minutes and win a lot of face offs.  They are likely more adequately priced at 2M a year, but that's life.  Every so often they show us something special like Sutter's hattie last night.

 

Watch for the team to get back into a similar form to last year.  The only question is the consistency of the goal tending.