RUPERTKBD Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 14 hours ago, The Lock said: The real problem's not the economy in the US (well the US does have problems there but that's not my point). It's with the economy in Mexico. Improve the Mexican economy and you have less people who want to move to the states. This supports the supply and demand in that you have less supply then from Mexico and thus more demand for those low-paying jobs in the states, raising the wages of those jobs. It's a solid idea, however I don't think you can stop at Mexico. Many of the illegals showing up at the US border aren't even from Mexico....they're from Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador and Nicaragua.... Many of these people are fleeing from the Cartels and gangs. They literally show up at the border knowing that they'll likely be separated from their children, with no guarantee that they'll be reunited.....But they do it anyway. That's how desperate they are.... But according to Trumpists like Kragar, I'm the racist for wanting these folks to be granted asylum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: It's a solid idea, however I don't think you can stop at Mexico. Many of the illegals showing up at the US border aren't even from Mexico....they're from Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador and Nicaragua.... Many of these people are fleeing from the Cartels and gangs. They literally show up at the border knowing that they'll likely be separated from their children, with no guarantee that they'll be reunited.....But they do it anyway. That's how desperate they are.... But according to Trumpists like Kragar, I'm the racist for wanting these folks to be granted asylum... Well perhaps then the US needs to also assist in fighting cartels. They have the manpower. I do agree though that it probably doesn't stop in just Mexico, but I'm more a believer in that sometimes half the battle is just starting and starting with 1 country is going to be easier than starting with several. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Lock said: Well perhaps then the US needs to also assist in fighting cartels. They have the manpower. I do agree though that it probably doesn't stop in just Mexico, but I'm more a believer in that sometimes half the battle is just starting and starting with 1 country is going to be easier than starting with several. Maybe. And certainly some sort of action is better than nothing. As far as helping to fight the cartels, I'm not sure if that can even be done. It would require some sort of occupying force. Not out of the realm of possibility I suppose, but I wonder how much enthusiasm there would be for creating another Afghanistan, even if it were closer to home. IMO, the far better idea would be to decriminalize drug possession across the board, regulate and tax the sale and treat them like alcohol and cigarettes. In effect, take the bulk of the criminal element out of the equation.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Just now, RUPERTKBD said: Maybe. And certainly some sort of action is better than nothing. As far as helping to fight the cartels, I'm not sure if that can even be done. It would require some sort of occupying force. Not out of the realm of possibility I suppose, but I wonder how much enthusiasm there would be for creating another Afghanistan, even if it were closer to home. IMO, the far better idea would be to decriminalize drug possession across the board, regulate and tax the sale and treat them like alcohol and cigarettes. In effect, take the bulk of the criminal element out of the equation.... I can't disagree there really. Even if you can convince one of those countries to decriminalize, I think it would only be a matter of time before other countries follow suit. It's always nice theorizing on what could be. There are definitely methods to combat all of this. Convincing however is a whole different ballgame unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 minute ago, The Lock said: I can't disagree there really. Even if you can convince one of those countries to decriminalize, I think it would only be a matter of time before other countries follow suit. It's always nice theorizing on what could be. There are definitely methods to combat all of this. Convincing however is a whole different ballgame unfortunately. Actually, I'm talking about decriminalizing in the states. It's the illicit nature of the product that makes it so lucrative for the Cartels. If everything were above board, the inherent violence would be unnecessary and people from central America wouldn't have to be so desperate to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: Actually, I'm talking about decriminalizing in the states. It's the illicit nature of the product that makes it so lucrative for the Cartels. If everything were above board, the inherent violence would be unnecessary and people from central America wouldn't have to be so desperate to leave. I think that will happen anyway. Each election, more and more states have more relaxed laws for marijuana and it's now only the most conservative state governments that don't allow it. Oregon was just the first state in the 2020 election to decriminalize drugs altogether, so it's happening. It'll be slow, but it's happening. Edited February 15, 2021 by The Lock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 hour ago, The Lock said: Well perhaps then the US needs to also assist in fighting cartels. They have the manpower. I do agree though that it probably doesn't stop in just Mexico, but I'm more a believer in that sometimes half the battle is just starting and starting with 1 country is going to be easier than starting with several. They may have the manpower but not the will...after all they created the cartels for political and economic purposes. You don’t really think that some street gangster rises to the top of a cartel with out making deals with the rich overlords. I would venture to guess most of those overlords are located in the US and Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 minute ago, spur1 said: They may have the manpower but not the will...after all they created the cartels for political and economic purposes. You don’t really think that some street gangster rises to the top of a cartel with out making deals with the rich overlords. I would venture to guess most of those overlords are located in the US and Europe. But are those cartel overlords in the political system? It's possible but do we actually know that for certain? I'd argue that they wouldn't have the will due to different parties having different interests and this doesn't even consider how messed up the US political system is at the moment. So I do agree that the will to do this is questionable, but I don't think it's because of the overlords, at least not directly as the overlords can of course bribe the politicians. Still, if what I've thought of is actually presented to congress and there's enough politicians that do agree on it, there is that possibility that it does get passed. It's an uphill battle, and I think that's what you're implying here, but it's not impossible either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 I think this story is right in the wheelhouse of this thread: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newspolitics/people-are-boycotting-publix-because-a-member-of-its-founding-family-gave-dollar300000-to-the-trump-rally-that-led-to-the-january-6-capitol-riots/ar-BB1dHUBl?li=AAggNb9 Quote People are calling for a boycott of Publix after the Wall Street Journal unmasked an heiress to the Southern grocery empire as the top donor to the Trump rally that led to the Capitol riots on January 6. Julie Jenkins Fancelli, an heiress to the Publix founding family's nearly $9 billion fortune, has previously donated millions to Republican causes and candidates. On January 30, the WSJ reported Fancelli as having contributed $300,000 out of the roughly $500,000 total raised for Trump's now-infamous "Stop the Steal" rally. Publix has a dedicated fanbase, but Fancelli's contribution to the rally was the last straw for many loyal customers, The Guardian reported Monday. On Monday, the hashtag #BoycottPublix was trending on Twitter, with many users expressing outrage and claiming betrayal over Fancelli's donation. Fancelli's donation was facilitated by far-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, who himself donated $50,000 to the rally that led to the deaths of five people, the Journal reported. I would boycott as well, but I'm interested in others' opinions. Is this an example of "Cancel Culture"? Is it unfair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 13 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: I think this story is right in the wheelhouse of this thread: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newspolitics/people-are-boycotting-publix-because-a-member-of-its-founding-family-gave-dollar300000-to-the-trump-rally-that-led-to-the-january-6-capitol-riots/ar-BB1dHUBl?li=AAggNb9 I would boycott as well, but I'm interested in others' opinions. Is this an example of "Cancel Culture"? Is it unfair? It’s tricky isn’t it. You kind of have to pick your spots or you’d be boycotting most everything. Then you have companies like Goya where one side boycotts and the other side over buys. I know this though, I would sleep on a pillowcase filled with bricks before I’d buy a Mypillow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Just now, 4petesake said: It’s tricky isn’t it. You kind of have to pick your spots or you’d be boycotting most everything. Then you have companies like Goya where one side boycotts and the other side over buys. I know this though, I would sleep on a pillowcase filled with bricks before I’d buy a Mypillow. It is. As much as I'd like to see this woman lose money, she's still going to be a billionaire no matter what. So who gets hurt by a boycott? The people who work for the company.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkNuk Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 hour ago, RUPERTKBD said: I think this story is right in the wheelhouse of this thread: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newspolitics/people-are-boycotting-publix-because-a-member-of-its-founding-family-gave-dollar300000-to-the-trump-rally-that-led-to-the-january-6-capitol-riots/ar-BB1dHUBl?li=AAggNb9 I would boycott as well, but I'm interested in others' opinions. Is this an example of "Cancel Culture"? Is it unfair? I kind of understand 'cancel culture' as referring to people in authority doing the cancelling, not an individual average person. For an individual average person, that's simply exercising personal choice. It's one thing for you, as an individual, to decide to boycott, say, Jeff Bezos and Amazon. It's another for Jeff Bezos and Amazon to decide to boycott you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 20 hours ago, PistolPete13 said: I think that It’s more about the latter. The Newt Gingrich doctrine that Trump has glommed onto. It’s a very racist doctrine that harkens back to the “good old days” when immigrants weren’t flooding into the country, snapping up all the good jobs. A lot of people that buy into this world view don’t like being called on it. Hence the whataboutism and all the bleating about being “persecuted” by Libtards. 19 hours ago, 4petesake said: The very idea of “build the wall, build the wall” is beyond ridiculous. Suppose just for a moment that it actually accomplished keeping illegal immigrants out. Now the people doing the chanting can have access to all the menial low-paying jobs that they already don’t want. Full-time jobs paying liveable wages are the problem not immigrants. Anti immigration sentiment is as American as apple pie and peanut butter. Nothing that we see today has not been seen before, just different “actors” are involved. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 47 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: Anti immigration sentiment is as American as apple pie and peanut butter. Nothing that we see today has not been seen before, just different “actors” are involved. The problem is, after more than a century you would hope that people had evolved.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete13 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, CBH1926 said: Anti immigration sentiment is as American as apple pie and peanut butter. Nothing that we see today has not been seen before, just different “actors” are involved. Amen to that, My family came to America in 1955 from Ireland. Landed in New York and hopped on a train all the way to Vancouver., where we settled down. Growing up in East Van, the Chinese immigrants were taking the brunt of the racism in those days. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 9 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: thats really true, when you read the un-watered down versions of the classics you see that the Greeks in particular were pretty wild. I think the world is a pretty ugly place a lot of the time, and if we just did business with countries that believed what we do we'd be an island. Canada's a pretty special place, we actually have a sense of fairness built into our systems, which of course fails often but we try harder than many countries to get it right. I also think the stronger economic links we can have with countries the more chance we have at effecting changes. Again, doesn't always get the job done, but the alternative is sanctions which never do much or isolation which does nothing. Right now with Xi running China its not doing us much good, but we'll see where we end up with them in the long run. It's not just just economic links but social,educational,sporting the whole spectrum of human interaction. I know I keep saying this,however until we see ourselves as all being human being's sharing this planet rather than a disparate group of nations/countries,not much is going to change. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 7 hours ago, The Lock said: Well perhaps then the US needs to also assist in fighting cartels. They have the manpower. I do agree though that it probably doesn't stop in just Mexico, but I'm more a believer in that sometimes half the battle is just starting and starting with 1 country is going to be easier than starting with several. The US government has a history of bringing drugs into the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 17 minutes ago, Ilunga said: The US government has a history of bringing drugs into the country. Even if that's true (and I'm sure it is), history doesn't have to repeat itself either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 50 minutes ago, The Lock said: Even if that's true (and I'm sure it is), history doesn't have to repeat itself either. Mate Ollie North. Not only was he working with cocaine traffickers he was funneling the money to terrorist's. Check out the movie White boy Rick Based on a true story of a 14 year old kid the feds approached and used to traffic drugs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 3 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said: The problem is, after more than a century you would hope that people had evolved.... Unfortunately when it comes to certain things, people will never evolve. Truth be told, for every racist that I have encountered that has been in the U.S for generations. I can show you way more that are immigrants and come from immigrant families. It feels almost like a tradition, for every ethnic group on their way, up to $&!# on another group deemed bellow them. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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