[Report] Jim Benning to return for next season

[canuck73_3]

16 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

That is the missing ingredient for me, more than anything. 

 

This team, from management down, has a very disjointed feel to it. Its tough to describe or isolate. No identity, no pushback, no having each others backs. 

 

This doesnt feel like a tight knit group that would go through walls for each other. They say the right things but actions and body language speak louder than words.

 

How many times have we seen Holtby glare at his D when they hang him out to dry? How many times have we seen Miller get frustrated not only by mistakes he makes but by ones by his teammates? Thats not to disparage either guy. Its just interesting to see that frustration.

 

Its not just player to player either. Look at Hoglander on the bench with the empty net and 2 goals. The look on his face said volumes about how he felt there. He didnt hide it at all. Yet a few games later Edler is net front on pp1 to try to get him a personal milestone. 

 

Gads showed more balls in that game than we see from anyone not named MacEwan. Thats sad to me. The kid may need to get his skating up but to not play him after that was a bad look for Green.

 

No wonder our young guys get mugged. No one gives a $&!# when they do. This "play for the PP" bs has been going on too long. 

 

 

We don’t know he was benched, he may have injured his hand in the scrap. We don’t have enough information to decide what actually took place. 

[BPA]

I think most can agree is that the Canucks needs to add sandpaper players that can play and throw down when necessary.  Turning the other cheek to get a PP is not working.  Especially if the PP sucks. We need to be a team that everyone hates to play against because we hit hard every time and finish our checks.  Drop those gloves and go Gino Odjick on their ass.

[Blömqvist]

Long post, just spewing my thoughts into the retool/rebuild and the current state of our Canucks. IMO, some aspects of the retool set the rebuild back a few years but also was of overall benefit.
 

The contracts handed out to Eriksson, Sutter, Roussel, and Beagle have set the rebuild back because of their value and term. To be fair, one would have anticipated Eriksson to not fall off a cliff offensively after having consistent offensive success throughout his career. Similarly, one would also have anticipated that Sutter would not be so injury prone after missing only 13 games in his 6 full NHL seasons prior to becoming a Canuck. 

 

That said, the Canucks did achieve playoff success last year in the bubble, winning the play-in round and the first round against the then-defending Stanley Cup champions. There is something of value in insulating youth with veterans to instil a winning culture, which Benning has talked about in the past. Look at the Buffalo Sabres as an example of what not to do, as they remain at the bottom of the league despite multiple top draft picks.

 

I agree with Benning in that our timeline is in 2 years; however, it could have been now if it weren’t for the value and term of the contracts noted above. Had Benning not been as overtly generous to Eriksson/Sutter/Roussel/Beagle/etc. we would have had the cap space to re-sign a Toffoli and a Stecher [It was right to not re-sign Markstrom and Tanev, given the contracts that they received from the Calgary Flames]. Toffoli in the Top-6 would have been deadly, and Montreal would not have their leading goal-scorer. Stecher always paired well with Edler, and the two would have made a great bottom pairing with Benn and Juolevi as further depth.
 

There is hope in that Benning’s more recent UFA signings and pending UFA re-signings have been on the fair-side, but still not that good. These include Tyler Myers’ 6 year, $36M contract (signed pre-COVID) and Tanner Pearson’s $3 year, $9.75M contract (signed during COVID). Boeser and Demko’s RFA deals have been widely considered as good at the time of signing.
 

Apart from contract signings, the Achilles Heel of the Canucks stems from their coaching. When Green and the team are in synch they are a playoff caliber team (see the first two rounds of the Bubble Canucks). When things aren’t going well, the Canucks are a bottom 5 team in the NHL. The inconsistency of our play, our seemingly lack of a system, and our impotent PP is frustrating! Heck, our defensive zone coverage was a tire fire the whole season! Save for Clarke, a new coaching staff is needed. Green may have helped develop the likes of Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson, and Hughes, but he does not currently have the systems to have consistent success. A new head coach is needed and there are other “free agent” coaches or soon-to-be “free agent” coaches that could do better than Green. One thing is for certain: Baumgartner and Brown definitely need to be shown the door. 

 

It is frustrating as a Canucks fan to get the taste of playoff hockey last year and having the mistakes of our past severely limit us this year, but, things can be done/moves can be made to get rid of bad contracts and hire better than sub-par coaching. If Benning can’t/doesn’t navigate out of the mess he made, then when the new regime steps in at least all of the bad contracts will be gone.
 

Cheers to everyone who supported the team with everything that happened this year, ‘cuz there was a lot! Here’s to hoping for a solid draft, Benning not going trigger happy on UFA spending and instead making savvy moves this offseason, retaining Clarke, and an upgrade on Baumgartner and Brown! Stay safe and see y’all back here at the draft!

[Dazzle]

6 hours ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

There is nothing healthy about this kind of toxicity...

 

 

Could've told people sooner. We have a terrible reputation as fans around the league. This cements it.

[joe-max]

3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Could've told people sooner. We have a terrible reputation as fans around the league. This cements it.

At least they're not trashing their own city after a loss. Oh wait...

[Numba9]

3 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

What would fellow CDC members call what the NYR did? To me they were in the playoffs then tanked and sold off veterans who weren't even past their prime off for tons of young assets/futures and are already now turning back into a near playoff team this season. 

They sure had a plan and went hard at it and have done so much more than Vancouver in a shorter period of time, winning draft lotteries helps too!

NYR would definitely be an outlier and can't be in good conscious be used as an example of "How to rebuild properly".  NYR have had so many things just fall into their lap compared to the Canucks.  Their top players are mostly older (Zibenejad, Buchnevich, Kreider were there before they rebuilt),  they won the Panarin and Fox free agent lotteries and two draft lotteries.   The team that Benning took over in 2014 had one of the bleakest futures i've ever seen in a team.  

[FaninMex]

18 minutes ago, Blömqvist said:

Long post, just spewing my thoughts into the retool/rebuild and the current state of our Canucks. IMO, some aspects of the retool set the rebuild back a few years but also was of overall benefit.
 

The contracts handed out to Eriksson, Sutter, Roussel, and Beagle have set the rebuild back because of their value and term. To be fair, one would have anticipated Eriksson to not fall off a cliff offensively after having consistent offensive success throughout his career. Similarly, one would also have anticipated that Sutter would not be so injury prone after missing only 13 games in his 6 full NHL seasons prior to becoming a Canuck. 

 

That said, the Canucks did achieve playoff success last year in the bubble, winning the play-in round and the first round against the then-defending Stanley Cup champions. There is something of value in insulating youth with veterans to instil a winning culture, which Benning has talked about in the past. Look at the Buffalo Sabres as an example of what not to do, as they remain at the bottom of the league despite multiple top draft picks.

 

I agree with Benning in that our timeline is in 2 years; however, it could have been now if it weren’t for the value and term of the contracts noted above. Had Benning not been as overtly generous to Eriksson/Sutter/Roussel/Beagle/etc. we would have had the cap space to re-sign a Toffoli and a Stecher [It was right to not re-sign Markstrom and Tanev, given the contracts that they received from the Calgary Flames]. Toffoli in the Top-6 would have been deadly, and Montreal would not have their leading goal-scorer. Stecher always paired well with Edler, and the two would have made a great bottom pairing with Benn and Juolevi as further depth.
 

There is hope in that Benning’s more recent UFA signings and pending UFA re-signings have been on the fair-side, but still not that good. These include Tyler Myers’ 6 year, $36M contract (signed pre-COVID) and Tanner Pearson’s $3 year, $9.75M contract (signed during COVID). Boeser and Demko’s RFA deals have been widely considered as good at the time of signing.
 

Apart from contract signings, the Achilles Heel of the Canucks stems from their coaching. When Green and the team are in synch they are a playoff caliber team (see the first two rounds of the Bubble Canucks). When things aren’t going well, the Canucks are a bottom 5 team in the NHL. The inconsistency of our play, our seemingly lack of a system, and our impotent PP is frustrating! Heck, our defensive zone coverage was a tire fire the whole season! Save for Clarke, a new coaching staff is needed. Green may have helped develop the likes of Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson, and Hughes, but he does not currently have the systems to have consistent success. A new head coach is needed and there are other “free agent” coaches or soon-to-be “free agent” coaches that could do better than Green. One thing is for certain: Baumgartner and Brown definitely need to be shown the door. 

 

It is frustrating as a Canucks fan to get the taste of playoff hockey last year and having the mistakes of our past severely limit us this year, but, things can be done/moves can be made to get rid of bad contracts and hire better than sub-par coaching. If Benning can’t/doesn’t navigate out of the mess he made, then when the new regime steps in at least all of the bad contracts will be gone.
 

Cheers to everyone who supported the team with everything that happened this year, ‘cuz there was a lot! Here’s to hoping for a solid draft, Benning not going trigger happy on UFA spending and instead making savvy moves this offseason, retaining Clarke, and an upgrade on Baumgartner and Brown! Stay safe and see y’all back here at the draft!

I disagree and agree with the bolded.

 

Beagle and Sutter were never hired to help our scoring. They were here to help stop goals from going into the net through excellent PK and bottom 6 performance which they have done exceedingly well. They were there to help bring leadership qualities that would help prop up our young, new captain Bo Horvat. Sutter was injured because of the workload that was placed on him. As you mention, it was an unforeseen consequence of the responsibility placed on him. Beagle has been nothing more than a workhorse for this team. When we had both of these guys healthy, our PK was top of the league.

 

Eriksson was a Linden signing (Speculation). I can reason this because management were always talking about a return to the playoffs and extending the abilities of the Sedins a few more years. He was signed because of past chemistry with the Sedins. When Linden left and then the Sedins retired, this was when the rebuild began.

 

Roussel was exactly as advertised when he arrived but after his knee injury started to show wear. This does not become a bad Benning signing because he got injured and could not return to form while playing for the Canucks. It is an unforeseen circumstance that happens in this sport.

 

Again with Toffoli, this was a horrible season. The schedule, Covid, no fans, a lack of practice and needing time for new D partners to gel. Maybe even the coaching helped us to having our scoring drop off a cliff, for everyone. This brings us back to Toffoli, he is not a gamebreaker by any means. So, how many goals would he have scored that would have helped us win games. Remember that we had a lot of games that when we got scored on the flood gates opened and we let in a lot. Maybe we win 5 more games with him in the line up. 5 more games would only enrage more fans because we didn't get into the Tank for.... and the Winning meaningless games... Blah blah troll talk. Toffoli was never going to save this doomed season. So crying about him walking is a mute point.

 

We do not need Markstrom, We have Demko. It was time to move on from one of them. If we signed Marstrom, he would have wanted to be our number 1. Do you want Markstrom or Demko as number 1?

 

Tanev wanted job security as his body gets older. Benning would have been blasted if he gave Tanev the term he wanted. 

 

Stecher is a heart and soul player but we have Rathbone, OJ and others coming up. Bye-bye Stecher. He was even benched by Detroit. He is not good enough to keep over the previous two that I mentioned. Plus Hamonic, Schmidt and Benn are better.

 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said:

We don’t know he was benched, he may have injured his hand in the scrap. We don’t have enough information to decide what actually took place. 

He sure didnt sound like he was hurt after the game. Probably would have said something.

 

I doubt anyone asked Green why he sat.

[Bertuzzipunch]

Harmonic is a bottom pairing dman. I dont believe hes the right fit for quinn. This needs to be addressed by benning this offseason.

[wallstreetamigo]

8 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

I disagree and agree with the bolded.

 

Beagle and Sutter were never hired to help our scoring. They were here to help stop goals from going into the net through excellent PK and bottom 6 performance which they have done exceedingly well. They were there to help bring leadership qualities that would help prop up our young, new captain Bo Horvat. Sutter was injured because of the workload that was placed on him. As you mention, it was an unforeseen consequence of the responsibility placed on him. Beagle has been nothing more than a workhorse for this team. When we had both of these guys healthy, our PK was top of the league.

 

Eriksson was a Linden signing (Speculation). I can reason this because management were always talking about a return to the playoffs and extending the abilities of the Sedins a few more years. He was signed because of past chemistry with the Sedins. When Linden left and then the Sedins retired, this was when the rebuild began.

 

Roussel was exactly as advertised when he arrived but after his knee injury started to show wear. This does not become a bad Benning signing because he got injured and could not return to form while playing for the Canucks. It is an unforeseen circumstance that happens in this sport.

 

Again with Toffoli, this was a horrible season. The schedule, Covid, no fans, a lack of practice and needing time for new D partners to gel. Maybe even the coaching helped us to having our scoring drop off a cliff, for everyone. This brings us back to Toffoli, he is not a gamebreaker by any means. So, how many goals would he have scored that would have helped us win games. Remember that we had a lot of games that when we got scored on the flood gates opened and we let in a lot. Maybe we win 5 more games with him in the line up. 5 more games would only enrage more fans because we didn't get into the Tank for.... and the Winning meaningless games... Blah blah troll talk. Toffoli was never going to save this doomed season. So crying about him walking is a mute point.

 

We do not need Markstrom, We have Demko. It was time to move on from one of them. If we signed Marstrom, he would have wanted to be our number 1. Do you want Markstrom or Demko as number 1?

 

Tanev wanted job security as his body gets older. Benning would have been blasted if he gave Tanev the term he wanted. 

 

Stecher is a heart and soul player but we have Rathbone, OJ and others coming up. Bye-bye Stecher. He was even benched by Detroit. He is not good enough to keep over the previous two that I mentioned. Plus Hamonic, Schmidt and Benn are better.

 

 

Eriksson was not a Linden signing. Aside from the fact that the GM is the one who actually makes those decisions, there is just nothing to suggest it was Linden's call there. He was a Benning signing. I mean, Benning was the most vocal supporter of trading Seguin for Eriksson in Boston ffs. Long history of overvaluing Eriksson by Benning. Just actually lay the blame where it belongs.

 

This whole defense mechanism where every good thing done is all Benning (&^@# that bum Brackett, amirite?) but every bad decision was forced on an unwilling Benning, dragged kicking and screaming into doing something he didnt want to by Linden or the owners. Its ridiculous, illogical, and designed just to blindly support Benning.

 

He is either the GM who is reasponsible for the good and the bad or he is the puppet that makes no decisions on anything. You cant change that argument to suit your preconceived opinion that Benning is perfect.

 

There has never been an actual rebuild before or after Linden. Every year of Bennings tenure has been an attempted retool. The only reason the Canucks have been able to draft a few really good core players is because the retool strategy failed so spectacularly year after year. Quick ufa fixes, long term deals, trading picks and prospects for short term or worse ahl quality help, hanging onto ufa players rather than trading at the deadline. These are not things a true rebuilding team focuses on. 

 

No one is saying Toffoli needed to be a saviour. He just made our top 6 a lot better. He scored 28 goals this year and had a huge positive impact in Montreal. He had a huge positive impact in his time in Van too. That w8 goals would have been easily top on the Canucks btw. If you dont intend to prioritize keeping him, dont trade for him in the first place. Rebuilding teams dont rent players.

 

The team kept Pearsom who scored 20% of his points last year on an empty net and was a black hole offensively this year. Those werent clutch points that helped our team win. But he makes a million less per year than Toffoli next year and about the same this year. 

 

Roussel was fine until he wasnt. Thats why you dont give 4 year deals with ntc to aging 4th liners. Too much risk they will break down before their contract ends.

 

We didn't need Markstrom. Thats why they should have rented him at the deadline. Tanev too. Benning was feeling the heat of losing his job if he didnt make the playoffs so he sacrificed 2 years of the teams timeline to save himself. 

 

No one knows if Tanev would have taken less term and dollars to stay. Thats why not even talking to him or offering him a contract is just negligence. No way he asks for the same contract he got from Calgary. Could have rented him at the deadline. And Hughes missed him this year too.

[Convincing John]

5 hours ago, BPA said:

So you agree that JB had absolutely nothing to begin with at the start of his tenure with the Canucks?

 

So isn't it possible that some people are asking him to do the impossible in 7 years?  Especially since it went from retool to rebuild.

Why is everyone ignoring the brutality of Jim’s top pocket contract pen? 
 

have I in any way said that we should be Stanley cup champions? No. I said we should have the same core we do now, possibly more, but with 20M in cap. 

 

Benning bros starter kit.
 

It takes longer than 7 years. Gillis left him with nothing
 

We need to have a winning culture must spend millions on 12 point locker room guy Or Buffalo. 
 

Covid, Luongo, Flat Cap

So many good draft picks. 

 

upvote each other repeating the same thing. 

 

In before the Benning hater starter kit. 

 

[FaninMex]

33 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Eriksson was not a Linden signing. Aside from the fact that the GM is the one who actually makes those decisions, there is just nothing to suggest it was Linden's call there. He was a Benning signing. I mean, Benning was the most vocal supporter of trading Seguin for Eriksson in Boston ffs. Long history of overvaluing Eriksson by Benning. Just actually lay the blame where it belongs.

 

This whole defense mechanism where every good thing done is all Benning (&^@# that bum Brackett, amirite?) but every bad decision was forced on an unwilling Benning, dragged kicking and screaming into doing something he didnt want to by Linden or the owners. Its ridiculous, illogical, and designed just to blindly support Benning.

 

He is either the GM who is reasponsible for the good and the bad or he is the puppet that makes no decisions on anything. You cant change that argument to suit your preconceived opinion that Benning is perfect.

 

There has never been an actual rebuild before or after Linden. Every year of Bennings tenure has been an attempted retool. The only reason the Canucks have been able to draft a few really good core players is because the retool strategy failed so spectacularly year after year. Quick ufa fixes, long term deals, trading picks and prospects for short term or worse ahl quality help, hanging onto ufa players rather than trading at the deadline. These are not things a true rebuilding team focuses on. 

 

No one is saying Toffoli needed to be a saviour. He just made our top 6 a lot better. He scored 28 goals this year and had a huge positive impact in Montreal. He had a huge positive impact in his time in Van too. That w8 goals would have been easily top on the Canucks btw. If you dont intend to prioritize keeping him, dont trade for him in the first place. Rebuilding teams dont rent players.

 

The team kept Pearsom who scored 20% of his points last year on an empty net and was a black hole offensively this year. Those werent clutch points that helped our team win. But he makes a million less per year than Toffoli next year and about the same this year. 

 

Roussel was fine until he wasnt. Thats why you dont give 4 year deals with ntc to aging 4th liners. Too much risk they will break down before their contract ends.

 

We didn't need Markstrom. Thats why they should have rented him at the deadline. Tanev too. Benning was feeling the heat of losing his job if he didnt make the playoffs so he sacrificed 2 years of the teams timeline to save himself. 

 

No one knows if Tanev would have taken less term and dollars to stay. Thats why not even talking to him or offering him a contract is just negligence. No way he asks for the same contract he got from Calgary. Could have rented him at the deadline. And Hughes missed him this year too.

No, you should know that I am not that type of poster. We leave that kind of thinking for Squam and them. My point was that the plan changed when Linden and Sedins left. There was a lot of talk about Linden and Benning having different plans. Why are you overreacting to my opinion when the trolls that support your narrative make who knows what up. Give your head a shake. 

 

Toffoli makes our team better but we still miss the playoffs. Wahoo. 

 

Your Pearson argument is redundant as I said the whole team suffered in the O department. So, why bring it up. We agreed. I say it is coaching that led to the problem, you say burn it all down and start again. 

 

Tanev - Maybe, Maybe not. Maybe he is injured at TDL and we can't do anything with him because you know that has never happened to the Canucks before. Actually your whole idea of rentals is speculation. Maybe if there was a trade partner. If they were not injured. If they did not want the term that they got in Calgary because Hockey is not a business but and emotion, right.

 

 

[Convincing John]

2 hours ago, BPA said:

I think most can agree is that the Canucks needs to add sandpaper players that can play and throw down when necessary.  Turning the other cheek to get a PP is not working.  Especially if the PP sucks. We need to be a team that everyone hates to play against because we hit hard every time and finish our checks.  Drop those gloves and go Gino Odjick on their ass.

Cool, I’m sure we can find a lot of sand paper within our -4M in cap to play with. 

[FaninMex]

7 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

Why is everyone ignoring the brutality of Jim’s top pocket contract pen? 
 

have I in any way said that we should be Stanley cup champions? No. I said we should have the same core we do now, possibly more, but with 20M in cap. 

 

Benning bros starter kit.
 

It takes longer than 7 years. Gillis left him with nothing
 

We need to have a winning culture must spend millions on 12 point locker room guy Or Buffalo. 
 

Covid, Luongo, Flat Cap

So many good draft picks. 

 

upvote each other repeating the same thing. 

 

In before the Benning hater starter kit. 

 

I have never ignored it. I have pointed out that we were an even worse team when we signed those contracts. To get the players that help us to develop good culture in the room while losing costs money. They came to a team that they knew had no chance of a cup. Having them allowed our up and coming prospects to develop until they are ready. Lind, Gadj, Graovac(?). We also have given Pettersson, Hughes and others to develop a bit by getting used to the systems and the speed. Horvat has become the leader we want him to be. All of this is part of the process to develop a core that will win when we take the next step. 

 

A business man once told me that growing your business like a rocket leads to failure when met with stress. However, building a business in steps, reinforcing and adding in a process leads to a strong foundation that can weather difficulties. That is what I have seen. It is still part of the rebuild but it is moving in the right direction. 

[wallstreetamigo]

27 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

No, you should know that I am not that type of poster. We leave that kind of thinking for Squam and them. My point was that the plan changed when Linden and Sedins left. There was a lot of talk about Linden and Benning having different plans. Why are you overreacting to my opinion when the trolls that support your narrative make who knows what up. Give your head a shake. 

 

Toffoli makes our team better but we still miss the playoffs. Wahoo. 

 

Your Pearson argument is redundant as I said the whole team suffered in the O department. So, why bring it up. We agreed. I say it is coaching that led to the problem, you say burn it all down and start again. 

 

Tanev - Maybe, Maybe not. Maybe he is injured at TDL and we can't do anything with him because you know that has never happened to the Canucks before. Actually your whole idea of rentals is speculation. Maybe if there was a trade partner. If they were not injured. If they did not want the term that they got in Calgary because Hockey is not a business but and emotion, right.

 

 

Did the plan REALLY change though? Define how the approach Benning took after Linden actually changed.

 

Linden had decided that he wanted a true rebuild once he saw the Sedin retool years hadnt worked at all. Benning decided he wanted to continue the retool, which, if you look at his actual moves, he has continued to do every year until he ran out of cap last offseason. Aquilini (logically at the time) sided with the guy who he thought could make him playoff money sooner. 

 

Tanev and Markstrom easily would have gotten a high price at the deadline, injured or not. Look at the prices paid for lesser quality players. Keeping them supports it was actually always a year by year retool, not a rebuild.

 

The only rebuilding move Benning has done is drafting high. And he only got to because his retool had miserably failed every year.

 

No one can realistically look at his moves in totality since Linden left and call it the moves of a rebuilding GM.

[Convincing John]

17 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

I have never ignored it. I have pointed out that we were an even worse team when we signed those contracts. To get the players that help us to develop good culture in the room while losing costs money. They came to a team that they knew had no chance of a cup. Having them allowed our up and coming prospects to develop until they are ready. Lind, Gadj, Graovac(?). We also have given Pettersson, Hughes and others to develop a bit by getting used to the systems and the speed. Horvat has become the leader we want him to be. All of this is part of the process to develop a core that will win when we take the next step. 

 

A business man once told me that growing your business like a rocket leads to failure when met with stress. However, building a business in steps, reinforcing and adding in a process leads to a strong foundation that can weather difficulties. That is what I have seen. It is still part of the rebuild but it is moving in the right direction. 

Jim Benning has done none of what you mentioned. I keep hearing about this winning culture all the time, where is that? Everyone just says it, but like, where is it? Lol. 

 

You know what would support the young guys more than Sutter puffing out his chest with his 12 points? Players who can create offence. 
 

Your building a business in small steps analogy has absolutely no relation to what Jim Benning is doing. In fact, I would argue that Jim Benning attempted a rocket launch that ended up as Challenger. Signing UFA’s when you’re in the leagues Ghetto is literally trying to speed things up lol. You can fill your roster with Sutter/ Roussel like production for the league minimum, every single off season, ever. Stop acting like he is doing any favours here. Roussel for example displaced Toffoli with his contract. What helps Hughes, EP, Hogs more? speeches or goals? 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Harmonic is a bottom pairing dman. I dont believe hes the right fit for quinn. This needs to be addressed by benning this offseason.

I would rather have Hamonic there on a 1 year cheap deal and let hopefully a new GM next summer fill that hole then the frightening prospect of Benning trying to sign an aging vet to a 6 year deal this year to hopefully be that guy.

[wallstreetamigo]

2 hours ago, Numba9 said:

NYR would definitely be an outlier and can't be in good conscious be used as an example of "How to rebuild properly".  NYR have had so many things just fall into their lap compared to the Canucks.  Their top players are mostly older (Zibenejad, Buchnevich, Kreider were there before they rebuilt),  they won the Panarin and Fox free agent lotteries and two draft lotteries.   The team that Benning took over in 2014 had one of the bleakest futures i've ever seen in a team.  

You make your own luck though in many ways. More draft selections increases your chances at getting a good player.

 

The Rangers had a run of good luck. But they also recognized how to put themselves in the best position to seize the opportunity to give themselves the best chance.

 

Looking at Jeff Gorton's work as 3 month interim GM in Boston (Marchand, Kessel, Chara, Horton, etc.) and his work in NY, thats a guy who understands where his team is at and what he needs to do to get it to the next stage as quickly as possible.

 

Would have been stoked to see him replace Benning. Cup contender in 2 years like Benning said. That wont happen with Benning though imo. If he messes up again this summer, it will kill the chance at a window for most of this core. 

[FaninMex]

4 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

Jim Benning has done none of what you mentioned. I keep hearing about this winning culture all the time, where is that? Everyone just says it, but like, where is it? Lol. 

 

You know what would support the young guys more than Sutter puffing out his chest with his 12 points? Players who can create offence. 
 

Your building a business in small steps analogy has absolutely no relation to what Jim Benning is doing. In fact, I would argue that Jim Benning attempted a rocket launch that ended up as Challenger. Signing UFA’s when you’re in the leagues Ghetto is literally trying to speed things up lol. You can fill your roster with Sutter/ Roussel like production for the league minimum, every single off season, ever. Stop acting like he is doing any favours here. Roussel for example displaced Toffoli with his contract. What helps Hughes, EP, Hogs more? speeches or goals? 

 

22 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Did the plan REALLY change though? Define how the approach Benning took after Linden actually changed.

 

Linden had decided that he wanted a true rebuild once he saw the Sedin retool years hadnt worked at all. Benning decided he wanted to continue the retool, which, if you look at his actual moves, he has continued to do every year until he ran out of cap last offseason. Aquilini (logically at the time) sided with the guy who he thought could make him playoff money sooner. 

 

Tanev and Markstrom easily would have gotten a high price at the deadline, injured or not. Look at the prices paid for lesser quality players. Keeping them supports it was actually always a year by year retool, not a rebuild.

 

The only rebuilding move Benning has done is drafting high. And he only got to because his retool had miserably failed every year.

 

No one can realistically look at his moves in totality since Linden left and call it the moves of a rebuilding GM.

Hockey is not all offence. There is Defense. 

Winning culture is not just about winning games otherwise only the Stanley cup champs could be defined as a winning culture. 

 

Take Edm of past years, they had many good young players that washed out or did better on a different team. What was the cause? They, at one point, traded to get Smith(was that his name?) back to try to help but that loser mentality just got too much and that is what they became. Now, would all of those players have washed out if they had been allowed to develop in lower leagues. Accept that they were going to lose but get hard workers that help and try to win game in game out. Players that teach what is expected of them. This kind of planning while not pretty helps your prospect pool develop. It helps people to progress and build their confidence instead of having it torn away. Then as you add your prospects in, they add and build to that culture leading to a progress of better seasons.

 

Not everything is about having as many picks as possible. Sometimes having a few players that generate the peer pressure in the locker room to push people forward. Benning has brought in players and traded players that have helped the now.

 

Could we have gotten a few more picks, sure? So, you get a few more picks and with Bennings drafting a few more possibilities but that is only part of the process.

 

As for the idea that we could have traded Tanev or Markstrom at the deadline, maybe? We have had players that we thought would for sure be traded at the deadline who then got injured and nothing happened. We have also had deals on the table like Hamius who then either nix'd the trade or the Stars did. It takes two to tango and you cannot realistically say that we could have. Benning has tried before and then told reporters that there just wasn't a trade to be made.

[joe-max]

9 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

Jim Benning has done none of what you mentioned. I keep hearing about this winning culture all the time, where is that? Everyone just says it, but like, where is it? Lol. 

 

You know what would support the young guys more than Sutter puffing out his chest with his 12 points? Players who can create offence. 
 

Your building a business in small steps analogy has absolutely no relation to what Jim Benning is doing. In fact, I would argue that Jim Benning attempted a rocket launch that ended up as Challenger. Signing UFA’s when you’re in the leagues Ghetto is literally trying to speed things up lol. You can fill your roster with Sutter/ Roussel like production for the league minimum, every single off season, ever. Stop acting like he is doing any favours here. Roussel for example displaced Toffoli with his contract. What helps Hughes, EP, Hogs more? speeches or goals? 

I disagree. Admittedly the term "winning culture" is unfortunate, better would have been something like "a group of experienced leaders that will show the young players how to be a good professional and how to play the right way". Especially on the defensive side of the game and in the general approach (routines, practice, bonding etc.) most prospects need guidance. Obviously JB and Green want a team where everybody plays at least a decent two-way game. Can't blame them for that.

 

People claim, the team should just have run with cheap fillers and the young guns. But who knows if Boeser would have developed the way he has without Pearson and Miller? Horvat has mentioned how important the Sedins were for him and how big a role they played in his development to the player he is now. What about EP? Who can estimate to what extent he benefitted from having some good, experienced defensive centers (Sutter, Beagle) behind him. Is it unlikely that being around Tanev and Edler has helped QH become better? Some don't get it (Gaudette, Goldobin, Dahlen) and will never make it in the big league. The offense will eventually come automatically.