[Discussion] Tradeable Assets

[mll]

2 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

baertchi  isnt signed anymore  beagle is on injury reserve like ferland  roussel will be bought out i think benning had an agreement that eriksson would retire after the bonus this yr   

Dhaliwal said his understanding at this point is that Eriksson will not retire and intends to try and earn a spot next season.

 

He also says that Beagle might not be done.  He sees a specialist in a few days.  

[J.I.A.H.N]

2 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

 why the hell would we want martin jones we have demko and holtby 

Did you actually read it? I mean seriously.......

[canuktravella]

12 minutes ago, mll said:

Dhaliwal said his understanding at this point is that Eriksson will not retire and intends to try and earn a spot next season.

 

He also says that Beagle might not be done.  He sees a specialist in a few days.  

   ya if he doesnt retire we just bury him in utica  saves us a mill  in cap id tell him niw theres no room on team we have rookies hungry fir spots and hes just not worth buying out or having him waste a spot on team.  I wander whats with beagles injury whats wrong with him?

[canuktravella]

12 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Did you actually read it? I mean seriously.......

 i got to martin jones and was like nope 

[canuktravella]

4 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

I feel like I'm the only one that likes the pearson contract. Hes a very tradable asset imo.

id trade him for a first 

[canuktravella]

19 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Did you actually read it? I mean seriously.......

 why would sanjose trade a top 10 pick for a bad goalie contract  they could just retain half his contract and give a 1st rounder in 2022-23 season to dump him 

[canuktravella]

3 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

id trade him for a first 

 clears  cap needed for hoggy horvat miller in 2 yrs 

[canuckpuckluck1]

10 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

   ya if he doesnt retire we just bury him in utica  saves us a mill  in cap id tell him niw theres no room on team we have rookies hungry fir spots and hes just not worth buying out or having him waste a spot on team.  I wander whats with beagles injury whats wrong with him?

Good luck burying him in Utica...might have to check if New Jersey are OK with that.

[UKNuck96]

11 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

   ya if he doesnt retire we just bury him in utica  saves us a mill  in cap id tell him niw theres no room on team we have rookies hungry fir spots and hes just not worth buying out or having him waste a spot on team.  I wander whats with beagles injury whats wrong with him?

Would be buried in abbotsford 

[canuktravella]

6 minutes ago, canuckpuckluck15 said:

Good luck burying him in Utica...might have to check if New Jersey are OK with that.

 watever team we have in  ahl 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

4 hours ago, Provost said:

Hearing Benning speak always gives insight if you listen between the lines.

When he mentions players by name you can also pay attention to the names he didn’t say.

 

Based on his presser they think of Miller as part of the (young) core.  He also explicitly talked about Rathbone.

 

He mentioned trades, so who could we realistically trade?

 

In terms of anything of value, all I can see are:

Schmidt

Juolevi

DiPietro

Picks (aside from this year’s 1st that he indicated they would likely keep)

 

That isn’t a big list.

 

The players that aren’t likely to get moved because of their value to us:

Petterson, Hughes, Boeser, Miller, Horvat, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Demko, Motte

 

The players who aren’t likely to get traded because they aren’t worth anything as you could get equivalent or better UFAs for the cap hit, or they have negative value and would cost us to move:

Roussel, Beagle, Ferland, Myers, Eriksson, MacEwan, Pearson, Virtanen, Highmore, Holtby

 

 

It seems like Virtanen and Holtby are easy decisions for buyouts.

 

What are potential trade targets that could be had for that list of possibly available assets?  Nothing that is likely going to fill many holes in the lineup.

i'm going  to disagree that Pearson, Myers, Highmore, MacEwan have negative value. Myers, Pearson, Highmore all had poor starts to the season but finished strong.

 

Capfriendly suggests Pearsons value is worth 3.9m

Capfriendly suggests Myers value is worth 5.2m (normal for a older players value to drop throughout the contract.)

Capfriendly suggests MacEwans value is worth 870K

Capfriendly suggests Highmores value is worth 769K

 

I'm going trust the non biased  POV based on analytics over yours's any day.

 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

4 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

I feel like I'm the only one that likes the pearson contract. Hes a very tradable asset imo.

I always thought it was fair and Capfriendly thinks its a steal.

[Angry Goose]

Curious, if the Canucks have some draft targets that could fall in the late 1st round/early 2nd, could they trade their 1st pick (assuming it's 9th oa) to move down (late 1st, 2nd round pick, ++?) and package the late 1st/or 2nd etc. to move LE, and take a player later in the draft?

 

Or

 

Could u package the 9th oa & LE to get a young ready to go guy like say a Tyler Bertuzzi at the high end or Lawson Crouse at the low end (just quick examples, not necessarily what I think could happen)?

[Ghostsof1915]

Canucks have nothing worth to trade that we don't want to get rid of....

 

End of story. 

 

But yes it would be great to get Eriksson for Boone Jenner but it's not gonna happen. 

 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I am glad that this thread was created, as it gives me a chance to, talk about a couple of moves and really moving the needle.......

 

#1. I was really against acquiring OEL, and objected to the cost, albeit, I really did not understand what the offer was, nor how we could fit him in. Having read a proposal on that trade and playing with Cap Friendly, it is doable and would be very smart. The guts of the proposed trade was..............

 

OEL ($8,250,000)

for

Schmidt ($5,950,000), Eriksson ($6,000,000), and Roussel ($3,000,000)

 

This trade sheds $14,950,000 - $8,250,000 = $6,700,000 for the Canucks, but equally Arizona sheds $2,300,000 in the remaining years, after next. I am now of the mind that this would be a great trade for Vancouver.

 

#2. The second trade I read about was an interesting one from a San Jose fan, who stated that Jones needs to be moved out. As he is owed $15,000,000 over the next 3 years. Now read the whole idea, before throwing this out. A news paper journalist in San Jose stated it would cost 2 -1st to move him out. My thought was a more improvised trade and buyout. Proposal as follows.

 

Martin Jones @50%, 2021-1st, 2021 3rd, and a 2022-2nd

for

Vancouver's 2023-1st

 

Now, if you believe Vancouver is doomed for the basement to eternity, then sure, Vancouver keeps it's 2023 1st. I believe we will be in the playoffs in 2 years. I also really pumps Vancouver's 2021 draft choices and let's us build closer to our current core. The cost to San Jose is really a 2nd and a 3rd, plus part of the buy out.

 

Vancouver's Buyout on this is: $960,000, $1,200,000, $1,450,000, $830,000, $830,000, $830,000.......IMO, these are numbers we can handle.

 

#3. This is a A ) or B ) move. We either trade Virtanen or Terminate him if he is found guilty. The Ride called Virtanen is over folks. The return, if not guilty will be a 2022-3rd. We just accept our fate and turn the page. Savings $2,550,000

 

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These moves clear $9,250,000 in extra Cap Savings. And adds OEL in addition, which up grades our LHD side. OEL will be good for at least 5 years. IMO, this trade would have been done this last summer, but Arizona was still thinking on it, and we ran out of time.

 

Now, the reward for this is in this years, and next years drafts, in that we get additional picks from San Jose. San Jose will be down for a couple of years, and we all ready know what this years picks will be. Here is what we go into the draft with.

 

San Jose 2021-1st (7th OA)

Vancouver 2021-1st (9th OA)

Vancouver 2021-2nd (41 OA)

San Jose 2021-3rd (71 OA)

Vancouver 2021-3rd (73 OA)

 

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Pettersson 4 years @ $7,500,000

Hughes 4 years @ $6,500,000

Edler walks

Harmonic 2 years @ $2,500,000

Wennberg 5 years @ $3,500,000

Coleman 3 years @ $3,500,000

 

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On a separate note.................

 

I would like to get Soderstrom out of Arizona............................I would trade our 2022 1st (unprotected)  for him

RE: the OEL trade.

 

Capfriendly suggests OEL  value is worth 5.4m*4 so im guessing those 2 extra years are very risky.

Capfriendly suggests Schmidts  value is worth 4.7m*4

Capfriendly suggests roussels  value is worth 1m*1

Capfriendly suggests LE  value is worth 785k*1 (likely political reasons why we are not playing him)

 

so OEL adds 8.3m*6 AAV  - 5.4*6 =17.4m in negative value(plus the last 2 years may add even more)

so schmidt adds 5.9m*4 AAV  - 4.7*4 =4.8m in negative value

so Roussel adds 3m*1 AAV  - 1*1 =2m in negative value

so LE adds 6m*a AAV  785k*1 =5.215m in negative value

 

so 17.4  - 4.8  -  2- 5.215 = 5.4m in negative value for the nucks

on top of that the canucks will pay 21.3 million dollars more in salary

 

the only way I do this trade is if arizona pays something in return for all the added risk and expected negative value. the 1 year handicap does not make up the difference.

I would only do this trade if arizona retained 30% on OEL and we retained  20% on schmidt.

 

it evens out the aav and decreases the salary difference to 9 million. I would add a condition of if we buyout OEL before the 5th year of his contract starts we add a 3rd rounder.

a 5.8M aav and 3.85m salary for OEL is much more palpable for years 5 and 6 and could be traded even if his production fell to a  3rd pairing

 

 

RE:the jones trade I feel this is perfect value

 

Brian elliot signed a 1.5m dollar  deal with similar numbers. so his value is roughly around there. .896  sv% is about imo very bottom for a backup, but still nhl calibre.

so in reality a team is paying 1.43m above his aav value  for 3 years or about 4.5m total. and his actual salary would be about  1.25M*3 above his value.

 

vancouver could possibly trade him again for future considerations @50% retained  thats only 1.43m AAV cap hit for 3 years and 1.25m in actual salary. the trade considerations could be based on  2 factors minimum  GP And sv%. a 7th rounder for  25  GP And you could make some possibly wild bets on his sv% like min 25GP and .907% for a 3rd/4th.

 

Jim benning just needs to get aggressive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AC Readership]

Just looking at a future outlook for the Canucks.especially if they take a F in the 1st Rd of this year's draft, Miller should definitely be a tradable asset at the trade deadline in the 21/22 or 22/23 seasons or next offseason.

 

He'd get a really good return due to his versatility and could even maximize the return by retaining 50% of his salary for the 22/23 season.

 

A trade with a borderline playoff team that's built around their 22 1st Rd or 23 1st Rd pick could be a nice gamble which might payoff (see Colorado Duchene trade) as both drafts are set to be really good which could really be a boost to the Canucks core.

[mll]

6 hours ago, canuktravella said:

   ya if he doesnt retire we just bury him in utica  saves us a mill  in cap id tell him niw theres no room on team we have rookies hungry fir spots and hes just not worth buying out or having him waste a spot on team.  I wander whats with beagles injury whats wrong with him?

It’s apparently a neck injury.  They took quite some time to put him on LTIR and at one point he was even back practicing with the team in a non contact jersey.

 

[Provost]

7 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

i'm going  to disagree that Pearson, Myers, Highmore, MacEwan have negative value. Myers, Pearson, Highmore all had poor starts to the season but finished strong.

 

Capfriendly suggests Pearsons value is worth 3.9m

Capfriendly suggests Myers value is worth 5.2m (normal for a older players value to drop throughout the contract.)

Capfriendly suggests MacEwans value is worth 870K

Capfriendly suggests Highmores value is worth 769K

 

I'm going trust the non biased  POV based on analytics over yours's any day.

 

The quote was not worth anything as you could get equivalent or better UFAs for the cap hit OR they have negative value.

I don't know what tool you are using, but those Capfriendly numbers would simply be indicative of comparing contracts that already exist, and have nothing to do with the squeezed Covid UFA market that will happen this summer.  Anyone who doesn't understand that there not just being money available under the flat cap is just flat out wrong.  

Even using an invalid and wildly optimistic comparison like you are, it still shows Myers as having less value than he would be paid and MacEwan and Highmore right at what they are getting paid.  Nobody is giving us anything for those guys when there will be dozens of equivalent or better players begging for jobs in free agency, and another handful within their own organizations.

All the reporting said that Pearson got as much or more than he would have gotten on free agency this summer considering the way the market will be with a continued flat cap for years to come.

[smithers joe]

12 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

I feel like I'm the only one that likes the pearson contract. Hes a very tradable asset imo.

i loved the pearson contract but because how important he is to bo. him and bo have great chemistry, offensively but mostly defensive;y. bo plays against other teams top lines. pearson pulls his weight in that regard.  if you trade him, you'll have to go out for  another pearson that works well with bo.

[JM_]

9 hours ago, BarnBurner said:

That's just a real bad take. Why are you giving up OJ in order to get rid of LE? That's insane. Loui's done after next year. Leave it at that and don't give up potentially great assets. 

we're talking about who's tradable and what you could expect back.