Connor Lockhart | C

[filthycanuck]

3 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Wait, Gillis inherited players, didn't he? What did Gillis give back to the next GM?

A garbage prospect pool, which you admit, stale roster players, and a poor selection of a coach. Great GMing there, bud.

Poor selection of a coach? Gillis and management had a week long interview to decide if AV was keeping. Thats on Gillis for keeping him on board and he won the adams trophy to boot

 

Gillis job wasnt to build it for the next guy, his job was to win games, which he did a lot of. Aquallini hired him to win and make him some money and that he did with the numerous playoff revenue, sold out ticket sales, merchandise sales, Aqua was basically swimming in money. I think any owner will take that over the constant losing under the Benning era

[filthycanuck]

4 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Facts won't get you very far debating with posters like Filth. The ignore button would be more useful.

And youve chimed in with nothing to offer. Go follow your own advice and hit that ignore button, i dont really care what you need to say

Edited January 13, 2022 by filthycanuck

[Dazzle]

36 minutes ago, filthycanuck said:

Poor selection of a coach? Gillis and management had a week long interview to decide if AV was keeping. Thats on Gillis for keeping him on board and he won the adams trophy to boot

 

Gillis job wasnt to build it for the next guy, his job was to win games, which he did a lot of. Aquallini hired him to win and make him some money and that he did with the numerous playoff revenue, sold out ticket sales, merchandise sales, Aqua was basically swimming in money. I think any owner will take that over the constant losing under the Benning era

Actually, a responsible GM keeps prospects up to date, and you've just proven that he was reckless (which he was), and a poor drafter/developer.

 

In other words, you've successfully proven my point that Gillis was bad for the franchise. Thank you, come again.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[filthycanuck]

4 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Actually, a responsible GM keeps prospects up to date, and you've just proven that he was reckless (which he was), and a poor drafter/developer.

 

In other words, you've successfully proven my point that Gillis was bad for the franchise. Thank you, come again.

And a responsible GM makes the playoffs and wins games which for some reason Benning had a hard time doing.

 

Gillis was supposedly bad for the franchise, and yet had the franchise's one of two finals appearances, presidents trophies, hell even division titles

 

Whats Benning have to show for all his drafting prowess?  All those top 10 draft picks? Nothing

 

This can go on and on, agree to disagree. You have ur view, i got mine so i dont really give a rats a$$ what you think

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, filthycanuck said:

Gillis was supposedly bad for the franchise, and yet had the franchise's one of two finals appearances,

3 times in the finals

 

Have you looked at the talent Gillis started with and compared that to the talent Benning started with?

That might have something to do with the disparity in success.

[BlastPast]

2 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Keep this off-topic bull$&!# in the appropriate thread please.

[Dazzle]

6 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

And a responsible GM makes the playoffs and wins games which for some reason Benning had a hard time doing.

 

Gillis was supposedly bad for the franchise, and yet had the franchise's one of two finals appearances, presidents trophies, hell even division titles

 

Whats Benning have to show for all his drafting prowess?  All those top 10 draft picks? Nothing

 

This can go on and on, agree to disagree. You have ur view, i got mine so i dont really give a rats a$$ what you think

Gillis emptied out the prospect pool. You tell me who's still on the team besides Horvat. *crickets*.

 

Thank goodness you mentioned top 10 draft picks. Pettersson and Hughes are quality picks. Podkolzin's also a very good one.

 

Hell, let's take it further: Who drafted the current starting goalie? Hint: Not Gillis, and Benning did it in the 2nd round. Hoglander is also very useful - also in the 2nd round pick.

 

Then we have other prospects that actually look promising in their respective leagues. I didn't remember Gillis having any exciting prospects. Benning may not be the GM today, but he set the team well for the future. It's up to the next GM to expand on that.

 

Gillis didn't do rat.

 

 

[filthycanuck]

1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

Gillis emptied out the prospect pool. You tell me who's still on the team besides Horvat. *crickets*.

 

Thank goodness you mentioned top 10 draft picks. Pettersson and Hughes are quality picks. Podkolzin's also a very good one.

 

Hell, let's take it further: Who drafted the current starting goalie? Hint: Not Gillis, and Benning did it in the 2nd round. Hoglander is also very useful - also in the 2nd round pick.

 

Then we have other prospects that actually look promising in their respective leagues. I didn't remember Gillis having any exciting prospects. Benning may not be the GM today, but he set the team well for the future. It's up to the next GM to expand on that.

 

Gillis didn't do rat.

 

 

Did you think Tanev, Markstrom were going to be in still be on the team? You know players age right?

 

Yeah top 10 picks, Gillis only had one of those because his teams were too busy playing in the playoffs. You know drafting and developing players, means the end game is eventually winning and playing in the postseason? Has Benning done that? Few far in between considering we've finished near bottom 3rd of the league. He couldn't expand on the success from the little playoff appearances we've had. Rather than improving, we've gotten worse. Not just slightly worse, not just barely missing the playoffs, like picking in the top 5 of the draft worse. For 8 years, the Canucks were never considered in the ELITE of the league, even parts of Nonis and Burkes teams held that claim. Bennings teams were, "maybe they can get into the wildcard"

 

Gillis didn't have many prospects, if any, but if we were to play the blame game, Nonis didn't exactly leave him with guys knocking on the door. Either way, thats not an excuse, Benning had 8 years to turn the team around, but failed to do so. Correct me if im mistaken, but I believe Benning was here longer than Gillis, Nonis and Burke and still managed to do worse than both of them. We can draft all the top prospects all we want, if we aren't playing in the post season, its meaningless. This team should be better than it is but unfortunately Benning messed that up with the overpaying for UFAs for guys like Dickenson, Rousell, Player Name etc.

 

As far as developing players, don't act as if we are just brimming with prospects considering the Comets have churned out like, what? TWO nightly roster players, Demko and the other isn't even here anymore (Gaudette). Juolevi, Lind, Gadjovich, and you want to take it further, Madden and Dahlen, all gone

 

 

[Dazzle]

Just now, filthycanuck said:

Did you think Tanev, Markstrom were going to be in still be on the team? You know players age right?

 

Yeah top 10 picks, Gillis only had one of those because his teams were too busy playing in the playoffs. You know drafting and developing players, means the end game is eventually winning and playing in the postseason? Has Benning done that? Few far in between considering we've finished near bottom 3rd of the league. He couldn't expand on the success from the little playoff appearances we've had. Rather than improving, we've gotten worse. Not just slightly worse, not just barely missing the playoffs, like picking in the top 5 of the draft worse. For 8 years, the Canucks were never considered in the ELITE of the league, even parts of Nonis and Burkes teams held that claim. Bennings teams were, "maybe they can get into the wildcard"

 

Gillis didn't have many prospects, if any, but if we were to play the blame game, Nonis didn't exactly leave him with guys knocking on the door. Either way, thats not an excuse, Benning had 8 years to turn the team around, but failed to do so. Correct me if im mistaken, but I believe Benning was here longer than Gillis, Nonis and Burke and still managed to do worse than both of them. We can draft all the top prospects all we want, if we aren't playing in the post season, its meaningless. This team should be better than it is but unfortunately Benning messed that up with the overpaying for UFAs for guys like Dickenson, Rousell, Player Name etc.

 

As far as developing players, don't act as if we are just brimming with prospects considering the Comets have churned out like, what? TWO nightly roster players, Demko and the other isn't even here anymore (Gaudette). Juolevi, Lind, Gadjovich, and you want to take it further, Madden and Dahlen, all gone

 

 

I already get from your posts that you'll ignore evidence if you have to, in order to prop up Gillis. Now you've changed the narrative to: Nonis didn't leave much behind for Gillis.

 

Just laughable.

 

It's clear that you can't even see through your own inconsistencies and contradictions.

[filthycanuck]

32 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I already get from your posts that you'll ignore evidence if you have to, in order to prop up Gillis. Now you've changed the narrative to: Nonis didn't leave much behind for Gillis.

 

Just laughable.

 

It's clear that you can't even see through your own inconsistencies and contradictions.

Whatever you say, if drafting is the be all, and all of what makes a franchise successful then theres something wrong with your line of thinking. Don't need to prop Gillis, the results speak for themselves. You've come up full of excuses on why the team hasn't won under Benning. " Anything before 2011 doesn't count for Gillis" LOL. Wah wah we were left with nothing wah wah boo hoo. He had 8 years to do it and failed, and yet hes somehow better because, what he drafted better? Geez. Sorry if i don't feel the same sentiment because I want to actually see the playoffs, not just keep drafting players. The fact that you base a GMs success on just drafting and developing, is assenine. You know winning matters the most right? Benning got his carcass canned because he wasn't winning, Imagine  that? the best scout / "drafter" if theres such a word this franchise has ever seen, I'll give Jim that credit, and yet he was shown out the door because he wasn't winning. Thats the be all, end all. If the Canucks don't win, they don't make it to the playoffs. No playoffs, no payoff for Aquallini. As much as we fans don;'t want to admit, Aquas wallet speaks the loudest and doesn't care what our prospect pool looks like. The Canucks team worth have managed to plummet under the Benning regime (look it up) and yet was at its absolute highest with Gillis

 

I think Ive been pretty consistent with my stance. Have you looked yourself in the mirror? Talk about contradiction." Wah wah Mike didn't leave with Jim with anything" Nonis does the same thing to Gillis " oh ok you're trying to prop Gillis" LOL Only difference is one guy managed to take an existing core, like you said, "its up to the next GM to do that" and Gillis did that and came 1 game within winning the cup. You've said yourself, "presidents trophy is an excuse" LOL really? You're complaing about success? What planet are you from?

 

The only reason you've had for Benning not getting any wins because ol Mike didn't leave him anything which is a lame excuse. Funny how you keep harping about all of Bennings draft success and yet fail to even touch on his massive whiffs on many UFAs with absolutely obsurd contracts. You know signing and evaluating ufas is also part of the job description

Edited January 14, 2022 by filthycanuck

[CanuckleHorse]

40 minutes ago, filthycanuck said:

Whatever you say, if drafting is the be all, and all of what makes a franchise successful then theres something wrong with your line of thinking. Don't need to prop Gillis, the results speak for themselves. You've come up full of excuses on why the team hasn't won under Benning. " Anything before 2011 doesn't count for Gillis" LOL. Wah wah we were left with nothing wah wah boo hoo. He had 8 years to do it and failed, and yet hes somehow better because, what he drafted better? Geez. Sorry if i don't feel the same sentiment because I want to actually see the playoffs, not just keep drafting players. The fact that you base a GMs success on just drafting and developing, is assenine. You know winning matters the most right? Benning got his carcass canned because he wasn't winning, Imagine  that? the best scout / "drafter" if theres such a word this franchise has ever seen, I'll give Jim that credit, and yet he was shown out the door because he wasn't winning. Thats the be all, end all. If the Canucks don't win, they don't make it to the playoffs. No playoffs, no payoff for Aquallini. As much as we fans don;'t want to admit, Aquas wallet speaks the loudest and doesn't care what our prospect pool looks like. The Canucks team worth have managed to plummet under the Benning regime (look it up) and yet was at its absolute highest with Gillis

 

I think Ive been pretty consistent with my stance. Have you looked yourself in the mirror? Talk about contradiction." Wah wah Mike didn't leave with Jim with anything" Nonis does the same thing to Gillis " oh ok you're trying to prop Gillis" LOL Only difference is one guy managed to take an existing core, like you said, "its up to the next GM to do that" and Gillis did that and came 1 game within winning the cup. You've said yourself, "presidents trophy is an excuse" LOL really? You're complaing about success? What planet are you from?

 

The only reason you've had for Benning not getting any wins because ol Mike didn't leave him anything which is a lame excuse. Funny how you keep harping about all of Bennings draft success and yet fail to even touch on his massive whiffs on many UFAs with absolutely obsurd contracts. You know signing and evaluating ufas is also part of the job description

I started the Benning’s era when Trevor big for nothing Linden stepped down after that it was Jim’s team to do as he pleased.

[Dazzle]

7 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

Whatever you say, if drafting is the be all, and all of what makes a franchise successful then theres something wrong with your line of thinking. Don't need to prop Gillis, the results speak for themselves. You've come up full of excuses on why the team hasn't won under Benning. " Anything before 2011 doesn't count for Gillis" LOL. Wah wah we were left with nothing wah wah boo hoo. He had 8 years to do it and failed, and yet hes somehow better because, what he drafted better? Geez. Sorry if i don't feel the same sentiment because I want to actually see the playoffs, not just keep drafting players. The fact that you base a GMs success on just drafting and developing, is assenine. You know winning matters the most right? Benning got his carcass canned because he wasn't winning, Imagine  that? the best scout / "drafter" if theres such a word this franchise has ever seen, I'll give Jim that credit, and yet he was shown out the door because he wasn't winning. Thats the be all, end all. If the Canucks don't win, they don't make it to the playoffs. No playoffs, no payoff for Aquallini. As much as we fans don;'t want to admit, Aquas wallet speaks the loudest and doesn't care what our prospect pool looks like. The Canucks team worth have managed to plummet under the Benning regime (look it up) and yet was at its absolute highest with Gillis

 

I think Ive been pretty consistent with my stance. Have you looked yourself in the mirror? Talk about contradiction." Wah wah Mike didn't leave with Jim with anything" Nonis does the same thing to Gillis " oh ok you're trying to prop Gillis" LOL Only difference is one guy managed to take an existing core, like you said, "its up to the next GM to do that" and Gillis did that and came 1 game within winning the cup. You've said yourself, "presidents trophy is an excuse" LOL really? You're complaing about success? What planet are you from?

 

The only reason you've had for Benning not getting any wins because ol Mike didn't leave him anything which is a lame excuse. Funny how you keep harping about all of Bennings draft success and yet fail to even touch on his massive whiffs on many UFAs with absolutely obsurd contracts. You know signing and evaluating ufas is also part of the job description

No you haven't. Get real.

 

At first, you talk about all the new changes/accomplishments that Gillis made, all of which ignores or downplays the fact that his core was ALL in their prime - Luongo, Kesler, Edler, and so forth. None of those came from Gillis.

 

Then you had the laughable moment of claiming that Nonis left Gillis nothing, so you were therefore using THAT as an excuse for the poor drafting and development. Never mind the fact that Gillis had multiple first round picks of his own (Gaunce comes to mind as the biggest failure of a pick). And he had almost no shortage of 2nd round picks (provided he didn't trade them away, which he did).

 

The fact that he could only hit: Horvat (traded Schneider to get a pick in the first place), Hutton, Connauton, and Hodgson in his ENTIRE tenure is a major failure. I don't care what kind of excuses you make with the president's cups etc. Those failures were on him and on no one else.

 

Subsequently, those failures have trickled into the future, leading to an empty prospect pool (which I already mentioned). This is ultimately bad for the franchise. It's not just Gillis' reckless trading (Ballard + Grabner & 1st was a terrible trade), it was his poor drafting selections, none of which, except Horvat or Hodgson (both high first round picks), or Hutton, ever really made much of an impact on the team.

 

There's no replacement of Luongo. No replacement of Kesler. No replacement of Edler (a Nonis pick btw), nor anything for the Sedins.

 

Gillis has been given all the excuses in the world, but none of them explain why his draft picks were mostly terrible, especially Alexandre Mallet. WOW. Brutal pick.

[filthycanuck]

56 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

No you haven't. Get real.

 

At first, you talk about all the new changes/accomplishments that Gillis made, all of which ignores or downplays the fact that his core was ALL in their prime - Luongo, Kesler, Edler, and so forth. None of those came from Gillis.

 

Then you had the laughable moment of claiming that Nonis left Gillis nothing, so you were therefore using THAT as an excuse for the poor drafting and development. Never mind the fact that Gillis had multiple first round picks of his own (Gaunce comes to mind as the biggest failure of a pick). And he had almost no shortage of 2nd round picks (provided he didn't trade them away, which he did).

 

The fact that he could only hit: Horvat (traded Schneider to get a pick in the first place), Hutton, Connauton, and Hodgson in his ENTIRE tenure is a major failure. I don't care what kind of excuses you make with the president's cups etc. Those failures were on him and on no one else.

 

Subsequently, those failures have trickled into the future, leading to an empty prospect pool (which I already mentioned). This is ultimately bad for the franchise. It's not just Gillis' reckless trading (Ballard + Grabner & 1st was a terrible trade), it was his poor drafting selections, none of which, except Horvat or Hodgson (both high first round picks), or Hutton, ever really made much of an impact on the team.

 

There's no replacement of Luongo. No replacement of Kesler. No replacement of Edler (a Nonis pick btw), nor anything for the Sedins.

 

Gillis has been given all the excuses in the world, but none of them explain why his draft picks were mostly terrible, especially Alexandre Mallet. WOW. Brutal pick.

Oh ok so youre saying is that whoever took over the team after Nonis regardless who it was Gillis, Rutherford etc just put any GM there, automatically its assumed that theyd go to the finals, division titles, just because all those players were in their prime. 

 

The fact you keep harping on poor alex mallet and the numerous draft picks, tells me youre one of THOSE guys lol

 

Answer me this, did you want the team regardless who was the GM after Nonis, did you want them to go to the finals or no? Had the Gillis won the cup, and still drafted terribly, would you still have the same stance with Benning?

[filthycanuck]

On 1/13/2022 at 6:54 AM, VegasCanuck said:

#1, they were still maturing as a team. By your statement, it implies that all kids should instantly hit their maximum production as soon as they enter the league.

#2, check the 78% yourself. It's not hard, just search the team that went to the finals in 2011 and compare minutes played etc.

I didn't bother researching the minutes, nor do I care and nobody tells me what to do. Either way lets go with your 78%, that 22% probably made the difference between them being ousted in the first round, or making it far in the playoffs. You can't assume that the same roster was going to make it far in the post season as Nonis tried adding pieces to just slip in to the playoffs and failed in his last season (Keith Carney, Shawn Pronger, and ahem, Marc Bergevin LOL ). Lets just say it wasn't Gillis that was the GM after Nonis, can you guarantee there was presidents trophy and a stanley cup in that tenure? Probably not.

 

Great example, Tampa Bay Lightning. 3 years ago, they were swept and they were the best team in the league, without question. Blake Coleman, Patrick Marroon and to a lesser extent, our own Luke Schenn was added, and proceeded to win 2 stanley cups. That was the same core that was swept and the addition of a handful of players took them to the promised land, so dont tell me that 22, 15, 10 percent don't matter because they do. Coleman and Marroon played key roles in those runs as support players. You can't bank on just maturity because that Lightning team needed a little bit more grit, and whatever holes they had got filled. Gillis did the same with Nonis's team, to a lesser extent of course

 

And your comment as they were a "maturing team", geez, how long did you expect the players to simmer? Sedins, Luongo, Salo weren't exactly spring chickens when Gillis got a hold of them

Edited January 15, 2022 by filthycanuck

[Vermette9]

Go have your pissing match else where 

[VegasCanuck]

7 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

I didn't bother researching the minutes, nor do I care and nobody tells me what to do. Either way lets go with your 78%, that 22% probably made the difference between them being ousted in the first round, or making it far in the playoffs. You can't assume that the same roster was going to make it far in the post season as Nonis tried adding pieces to just slip in to the playoffs and failed in his last season (Keith Carney, Shawn Pronger, and ahem, Marc Bergevin LOL ). Lets just say it wasn't Gillis that was the GM after Nonis, can you guarantee there was presidents trophy and a stanley cup in that tenure? Probably not.

 

Great example, Tampa Bay Lightning. 3 years ago, they were swept and they were the best team in the league, without question. Blake Coleman, Patrick Marroon and to a lesser extent, our own Luke Schenn was added, and proceeded to win 2 stanley cups. That was the same core that was swept and the addition of a handful of players took them to the promised land, so dont tell me that 22, 15, 10 percent don't matter because they do. Coleman and Marroon played key roles in those runs as support players. You can't bank on just maturity because that Lightning team needed a little bit more grit, and whatever holes they had got filled. Gillis did the same with Nonis's team, to a lesser extent of course

 

And your comment as they were a "maturing team", geez, how long did you expect the players to simmer? Sedins, Luongo, Salo weren't exactly spring chickens when Gillis got a hold of them

You don't care about facts, you just like to do mindless rants.

 

Welcome to the Canucks Forums, Donald Trump

[Sean Monahan]

8 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

I didn't bother researching the minutes, nor do I care and nobody tells me what to do.

Why would anybody bother having any sort of conversation with you if this is your stance? I could spend the next two hours repeatedly punching myself in the nuts and it still wouldn't be as big of a waste of time.

[filthycanuck]

3 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

You don't care about facts, you just like to do mindless rants.

 

Welcome to the Canucks Forums, Donald Trump

What part of lets go with your 78% did you not understand?

 

Funny, supposedly i apparently dont believe in facts and yet im the one pointing out the victories and accomplishments of Gillis. All those presidents trophies, pacific division banners are hanging in the arena. How is that not fact exactly?

 

I hate Donald Trump. Is that really the best insult you can come up with?  You millenials are hilarious

[-Vintage Canuck-]