Why we should turf the "dump and chase" style and focus on controlled entries

[Googlie]

Great analysis by CanucksArmy  ...

 

https://canucksarmy.com/2021/08/21/why-canucks-changes-playstyle-season/

 

 

[Googlie]

I always thought that Boeser was one of our better puck carriers on entries ... I don't think it is coincidence that he was usually the one taking the drop pass on powerplays,  then feeding Petey or Hughes after he is in.  But after Petey's injury, it seemed to be more Miller entering, then dishing off to Boeser or Hughes, with Brock playing more of Petey's role after entry.

 

Comments on Dickinson were interesting.  He seems like a great pick up.

 

Also a good argument made why Rathbone should make the big club right from training camp.

[Ghostsof1915]

I've been saying this for years.

Too much energy is spent retrieving the puck, when if you have a controlled entry you just focus on attack. 

[Wanless]

1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I've been saying this for years.

Too much energy is spent retrieving the puck, when if you have a controlled entry you just focus on attack. 

Plus the wear and tear on the players

 

being in control of the puck for just 2 more minutes a game in the o zone could result in .5 more goals a game (no stats were used to back this up)

[Fanuck]

Green coached one of the highest scoring teams in the entire WHL and one of the best defensive teams in the entire AHL - he knows systems, but systems need the right personel to execute.

 

JB has stressed from day 1 he wants a fast, skilled, puck possession oriented style and Green may finally have the right combination of guys to implement that vision. 

[Fred65]

 

 

I think that dumping it in works best when you have fast forwards to retrieve the dump. I don't think we have that speed. What i do get upset with is the constant D'man jumping in to the attack. Our D does not have the abilitiy, mostly speed to get back if the attack fails. It leaves the goaltender out to dry and reslt in too many goals against

[Jayinblack]

7 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

 

 

I think that dumping it in works best when you have fast forwards to retrieve the dump. I don't think we have that speed. What i do get upset with is the constant D'man jumping in to the attack. Our D does not have the abilitiy, mostly speed to get back if the attack fails. It leaves the goaltender out to dry and reslt in too many goals against

It was stunning last year how many odd man attacks and breakaways we gave up.

[oldnews]

Not going to follow that clickbait.

 

Please post the content in your OP - as opposed to generating traffic for an outside site / the smarmy, thanks.

[oldnews]

35 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Green coached one of the highest scoring teams in the entire WHL and one of the best defensive teams in the entire AHL - he knows systems, but systems need the right personel to execute.

 

JB has stressed from day 1 he wants a fast, skilled, puck possession oriented style and Green may finally have the right combination of guys to implement that vision. 

Yes - it's entirely situational / and dependent upon who is on the ice.

This is a dead horse wadr to the OP - has been discussed elsewhere and shown that the Canucks are right there with the rest of the league in terms of balance of entries.

Further - not following that link or gonna bother to respond to specifics until they're posted in this thread - but when you have a season where half of it is spent icing half a roster of replacement waivers players, AHL callups and prospects while dealing with no camp, and a covid outbreak - don't expect a particularly representative sample.

[-DLC-]

For me, I think it's all about mixing things up and not having "a" way to do things because that offers our opponents a chance to prepare against us.  

 

Being predictable, just as our PP was, means the info's out there and they can plan a counter to it.  The book is out on us at that point.  Mind you, they also have to execute it and it means trying to "get" the puck from someone rather than just racing to the puck.  A bit more involved.

But, if I had to choose, I'd also prefer to carry/control the puck versus constantly dumping it in as you already HAVE the the puck and can create chances.  There is value in a dump and chase tough, as it gets the puck deeper and if you carry it in blue line turnovers can be costly.  So keeping them guessing makes sense to me.

[oldnews]

On 5/22/2021 at 5:37 PM, oldnews said:

Carry in / 'controlled entries" were 43%.  Tied with Boston for 8th lowest.

14% entries with chances (1% below Boston).  Anaheim next closest at 43/11....

Only 10 NHL teams were above 14% entries with chances (according to your source).

New Jersey is top in the league at 55% carry-in (unfortunately, they were 19w-30l - one of the worst teams in the NHL).

 

So, two things there - if a team leads the NHL in %carry-ins, as NJ does, there is no necessary correlation to results.

NJ, Buffalo and Chicago = none of them playoff teams - were 3 of the top 4 in carry in%.  Buffalo and Chicago wound up at the same (14)  and lower (12) percentages than Vancouver for entries with chances %.

 

Toronto who finished 1st in the North was at 46%/16%.

 

Only 5 teams in the NHL were over 50%.

 

Carolina - at 44% - had 17% entries with chances - tied for top in the NHL...

 

Not sure that says as much about our 'systems' relative to the rest of the NHL as people that seem to believe the 'dump and chase system' of the team is what drags it down from a coaching/tactical sense. 

No real evidence of that there.

 

And - contextually - I'd expect our entries to be deflated without a player like EP in the lineup most of the season - certainly effects the top line and top unit of the powerplay - needless to say Pettersson's puck handling/stick handling, ability to carry the puck, vision to move it - and his quickness - enhance the team's entries.    Also as pointed out elsewhere - this is a team that had Boyd, Chatfield, Graovac, Hawryluk, Highmore, (Hoglander), Lind, Lockwood, Michaelis, Rathbone,  Vesey...all in their lineup -  (a few other youth like OJ not named) - the only newcomer there that earned a spot to start the season was Hoglander ()... 10 replacement, waivers, AHL callup, rookies, young prospects in the lineup.....Combine that with a poor start to the season - I don't expect their particular entry numbers to be better than the lower-mid-range that they were.

 

And really - says very little about the team's overall systems.

from the Green extension thread where these myths were dispelled.

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, Googlie said:

I always thought that Boeser was one of our better puck carriers on entries ... I don't think it is coincidence that he was usually the one taking the drop pass on powerplays,  then feeding Petey or Hughes after he is in.  But after Petey's injury, it seemed to be more Miller entering, then dishing off to Boeser or Hughes, with Brock playing more of Petey's role after entry.

 

Comments on Dickinson were interesting.  He seems like a great pick up.

 

Also a good argument made why Rathbone should make the big club right from training camp.

There is no good argument for pretending to know which prospects "should' make the club in training camp.

 

So many people pencilling Rathbone into the lineup already - on an 8 game sample - while there is a pretty good prospect in Juolevi for him to compete with - and a few others that will have an eye on that 4 spot as well.

 

That is the  point of training camp - to assess where the player actually is at the time - not fantasize about where one thinks they should be.  It's a competition - and players need to show up, and prove themselves to earn those spots.

 

I realize that Rathbone is the new flavorite of many in the fanbase for good reasons (but unfortunately that tends to play out in typical ways - of playing them off their team-mates or putting premature expectations on them) - people get carried away gifting their favorites roster spots before the results play out in camp, on the ice.  

Edited August 21, 2021 by oldnews

[Fred65]

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

There is no good argument for pretending to know which prospects "should' make the club in training camp.

 

So many people pencilling Rathbone into the lineup already - on an 8 game sample - while there is a pretty good prospect in Juolevi for him to compete with - and a few others that will have an eye on that 4 spot as well.

 

That is the  point of training camp - to assess where the player actually is at the time - not fantasize about where one thinks they should be.  It's a competition - and players need to show up, and prove themselves to earn those spots.

 

I realize that Rathbone is the new flavorite of many in the fanbase for good reasons (but unfortunately that tends to play out in typical ways - of playing them off their team-mates or putting premature expectations on them) -  - but people get carried away gifting their favorites roster spots before the results play out in camp, on the ice.  

While other defend to the death the inadequencies of other players. Virtanen was a classic example of fans who became attached at the hip with that guy who was ultimately bought out. There's another player who was given his first contract a league minimum and as short as possible. Fans still rave about him, doesn't make sense or adhere to any logic

[J-P]

15 minutes ago, oldnews said:

There is no good argument for pretending to know which prospects "should' make the club in training camp.

 

So many people pencilling Rathbone into the lineup already - on an 8 game sample - while there is a pretty good prospect in Juolevi for him to compete with - and a few others that will have an eye on that 4 spot as well.

 

That is the  point of training camp - to assess where the player actually is at the time - not fantasize about where one thinks they should be.  It's a competition - and players need to show up, and prove themselves to earn those spots.

 

I realize that Rathbone is the new flavorite of many in the fanbase for good reasons (but unfortunately that tends to play out in typical ways - of playing them off their team-mates or putting premature expectations on them) - people get carried away gifting their favorites roster spots before the results play out in camp, on the ice.  

Rathbone is an exciting prospect and could make the team right away but I personally always take prospect performances late in the season when games don't matter (as we were already out of it) with a big grain of salt. So - let's see where he's at when training camp starts.

 

Not sold on the OJ vs JR comparisons, they are different players and there's room for both. A left side with OEL/QH/OJ/JR looks like it could be as good as any in the league in a year or two.

[Fred65]

19 minutes ago, J-P said:

Rathbone is an exciting prospect and could make the team right away but I personally always take prospect performances late in the season when games don't matter (as we were already out of it) with a big grain of salt. So - let's see where he's at when training camp starts.

 

Not sold on the OJ vs JR comparisons, they are different players and there's room for both. A left side with OEL/QH/OJ/JR looks like it could be as good as any in the league in a year or two.

Man some of us need to look around other teams in the league. I watched the play-offs and that Mtl big 4 now they looked like winners. Think Headman, Cernak, Bergosiian and McDonough in Tampa. We don't have a Headman or a Cernak

Edited August 21, 2021 by Fred65

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Man some of us need to look around other teams in the league. I watched the play-offs and that Mtl big 4 now they looked like winners

Habs will miss the playoffs, and by a lot.  They are a bottom 10 team for sure.  Who exactly plays left side for them?  Nobody!  Their best D man is an Oiler cast off who is 34 soon.   They are done. 

[Fred65]

Just now, Alflives said:

Habs will miss the playoffs, and by a lot.  They are a bottom 10 team for sure.  Who exactly plays left side for them?  Nobody!  Their best D man is an Oiler cast off who is 34 soon.   They are done. 

I think they are, this season.  For start it look like Webber is done with his injury, but the fact is that bunch of no names as you suggest shut down a high powered Leafs, Winnipeg and the Vegas Knights and then went to 5 games against TB. Not bad for a bunch of losers. Certainly better than Vcr 

[J-P]

12 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Man some of us need to look around other teams in the league. I watched the play-offs and that Mtl big 4 now they looked like winners. Think Headman, Cernak, Bergosiian and McDonough in Tampa. We don't have a Headman or a Cernak

True enough was talking left side only... Our right side still needs some work although current makeup of the left side require some less flashy players on the right so Poolman and Hamonic are ok for now.

[Fred65]

5 minutes ago, J-P said:

True enough was talking left side only... Our right side still needs some work although current makeup of the left side require some le ss flashy players on the right so Poolman and Hamonic are ok for now.

I'd rather have Romanov on the Left side and then they had much under rated muscle in Chiarot and Edmunson, to me Petry is under rated

Edited August 21, 2021 by Fred65

[Googlie]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

Not going to follow that clickbait.

 

Please post the content in your OP - as opposed to generating traffic for an outside site / the smarmy, thanks.

Hard to do on a smartfone ... graphics just don't replicate which would have made the whole post disjointed.  With a choice of posting a link, or posting gibberish, I opted for substance.  Sorry if I offended you.

 

(I guess a 3rd option would be not to post anything.  I found the article interesting and informative, so thought others might do so too.  Not everyone has your grasp of analytics, nor access to the advanced stats needed.)

 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Googlie