Arrow 1983 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 18 minutes ago, stawns said: no way, I love Petey, but he's got a ways togo before he's on par with Barzal. He will likely get there, but he'snot there yet I think you have what I am saying wrong, Barzal is better than Petey. I agree with you there. Petey is comparable to Barzal at the time Barzal signed his deal last season. As I said above I believe most would agree that Barzal is now underpaid that doesn't mean that Petey isn't worth the same contract that Barzal signed last off season. You cant compare Barzal today with Petey today. You have to compare Petey today at the time Barzal signed his contract so Barzal last off season. I that manner they are comparable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Just now, Arrow 1983 said: I think you have what I am saying wrong, Barzal is better than Petey. I agree with you there. Petey is comparable to Barzal at the time Barzal signed his deal last season. As I said above I believe most would agree that Barzal is now underpaid that doesn't mean that Petey isn't worth the same contract that Barzal signed last off season. You cant compare Barzal today with Petey today. You have to compare Petey today at the time Barzal signed his contract so Barzal last off season. I that manner they are comparable I'm saying he's not. Barzal was better than and is better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow 1983 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, mll said: 5 years to UFA for Hughes. It’s Pettersson that is 4 years to UFA. it is then best for the Canucks to sign Hughes to no more than 4 years and 3 for Petey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow 1983 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Just now, stawns said: I'm saying he's not. Barzal was better than and is better now. the numbers don't agree with you they are comparable to both regular season and playoffs and they are both their teams 1st line centers how do they not compare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow 1983 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said: it is then best for the Canucks to sign Hughes to no more than 4 years and 3 for Petey EP is the far better goal scorer of the 2 and I would argue that has more weight than some of the other stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow 1983 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, stawns said: I'm saying he's not. Barzal was better than and is better now. I have a feeling that you just don't like a 3@ 7mill contract because if you look at the 2 players EP actually looks better than Barzal. EP is a far more complete player both a goal scorer and Playmaker as Barzal has only had 1 20 goal season (in his first year) and is more a playmaker while EP was about to get his 3rd 20 goal season before injury. I wouldn't trade EP straight up for Barzal. Truth is as soon as next season starts EP will be underpaid if he where to sign a 3 year 7 mill contract right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Arrow 1983 said: I have been searching for a Hughes comparable but am having a hard time with it. I explained above why he isn't comparable to Chabot. I look at other guys but they didn't post the same number like Hughes. I looked at Sergachev he is 3 @ 4.8 but only had 1 season comparable to Hughes his first and than declined. He is not TBL #1 dman and his numbers declined after his first season. The closes comparable Hughes has is Makar and he is RFA this season so no number to compare yet. Furthermore, Maker has a better Defensive game and therefore, garner more as a RFA. Maker also has negotiation rights unlike Hughes. Can anyone find me a comparable for Hughes please. I looked at McAvoy but Hughes has far better numbers. McAvory got 3 years at 4.9mill My conclusion is if Maker gets a Chabot like deal 8@ 8mill and guys like McAvory and Sergachev get 3@ 4.8-4.9 mill. I could see Hughes at 3 year and 6-6.5mill or 4-5 years 6.5-7mill You're looking at offensive numbers only without taking anything else into account. Chychrun, Hamilton and Theodore all had slightly more points then Quinn while having much better defensive numbers if you're just looking at points this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow 1983 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said: You're looking at offensive numbers only without taking anything else into account. Chychrun, Hamilton and Theodore all had slightly more points then Quinn while having much better defensive numbers if you're just looking at points this year. All three of your examples have had lower points than Hughes and have garnered lower dollar value. Well higher scorers seem to garner a higher value so yes I put high value on points because it looks like GMs put a higher value on points. However, when I compared Makar to Hughes I did say Makar had a better defensive game so I do suggest it plays a role but points play a bigger role it would seem when teams are dishing out the bigger dollars. Hamilton doesn't really count because it was 6 years ago different cap climate now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow 1983 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said: You're looking at offensive numbers only without taking anything else into account. Chychrun, Hamilton and Theodore all had slightly more points then Quinn while having much better defensive numbers if you're just looking at points this year. I would note as well all 3 of those guys played on better defensive teams. Deeper defensive line-ups and 2 of them made the playoffs Chychrun isn't even their #1 defenseman Edited June 16, 2021 by Arrow 1983 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Not sure a long term, big money deal for Hughes is a good idea at this point. If there was ever a player who should be on a reasonable bridge contract to show they can improve enough defensively to be a true #1 guy before getting a monster contract, its Hughes. I think both should be on bridge deals tbh. But woukd be far more comfortable locking EP up at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 hour ago, mll said: 5 years to UFA for Hughes. It’s Pettersson that is 4 years to UFA. Ahh ok. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 3 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said: The camparables don't argue your point. JP Barry just said this on the chek show Donny and Dhali. read above post of mine for explanation as to why Hughes is a better candidate for a long term deal rather than EP There are very few actual comparables for Hughes. Most are a bit lower on the points end but much more effective on the defensive end of the ice. He is very one dimensional and his offensive chances often come at the expense of his defensive play. He has along way to go to be a true #1 D. Lots of rosk signing him to big money and term right now imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: There are very few actual comparables for Hughes. Most are a bit lower on the points end but much more effective on the defensive end of the ice. He is very one dimensional and his offensive chances often come at the expense of his defensive play. He has along way to go to be a true #1 D. Lots of rosk signing him to big money and term right now imo. Lol honestly tell me one team that wouldn’t take that ”risk” on quinn if he was on their team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said: Lol honestly tell me one team that wouldn’t take that ”risk” on quinn if he was on their team Lots of teams wouldnt. Very few teams have given long term, #1 dman money contracts to guys who have not shown even a reasonable ability to play defense at the NHL level. I would be interested to hear which teams have given long term top dollar 2nd contracts to offense only dmen. Hughes is overrated as an overall dman based solely on his offense. But he is a defenseman at the end of the day, so playing defense adequately is kind of a thing. And until he improves to even average levels of defensive ability, my opinion is you dont skip the bridge contract with him. Those are the contracts that bite teams later. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Hughes is a fantastic offensive player. But he is a terrible defensive player. He will improve for sure but he is not there yet and its impossible to know how much his offense will be impacted by being expected to play effective defense. Right now, 5 on 5 at least, a good amount of his offensive creativity comes at the expense of good defense. He has to show he can do both to earn a top level long term deal imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: Not sure a long term, big money deal for Hughes is a good idea at this point. If there was ever a player who should be on a reasonable bridge contract to show they can improve enough defensively to be a true #1 guy before getting a monster contract, its Hughes. I think both should be on bridge deals tbh. But woukd be far more comfortable locking EP up at this point. Yeah. I don’t think it’s a good idea to sign Hughes to long term just yet. He needs to show that he can get better defensively before the team locks him up long term. If Hughes (hopefully not) doesn’t improve his defensive side of his game, then he’s going to be had for much cheaper, because then, he becomes a one dimensional player, as opposed to an all around one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: There are very few actual comparables for Hughes. Most are a bit lower on the points end but much more effective on the defensive end of the ice. He is very one dimensional and his offensive chances often come at the expense of his defensive play. He has along way to go to be a true #1 D. Lots of rosk signing him to big money and term right now imo. I think the hope is that Quinn will eventually become a #1 defenseman. But that isn’t the case as of right now. Will he get there? I think he’s smart enough that he can. I hope he can. If he doesn’t, then this team is in deeper trouble than most realize. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 9 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said: Tell me how Elias is worth more then Matthew Barzal? Barzal doesn't miss so much time to injuries and is carrying his team to the semi-finals. Barzal got 7 mil for 3 years and Elias shouldn't get a penny more. lol Barzal is carrying his team to the semi final? u mean pageau and defense/goalie?? i like how you pump Barzal's tire and then belittle Pettersson who have a higher points per game and plays good defense and works hard on his backcheck, and a superior scorer.. and then you'll prolly say Pettersson have better linemates blah blah.. pettersson put up pretty much the same stats in his rookie year as he did with JT miller.. so no Miller didn't make Pettersson better other than he helps him with the faceoff.. Barzal plays with 2 perennial 20 goal scorer on his line in Anders Lee and Jordan Erbele both been consistent 20 goal scorer before Barzal was even there. Barzal is not the only good player on the islander contrary to believe.. they have 5 20 goal scorers on their team unlike the canucks.. Islander is in the semi's because of trotz coaching and goaltending.. 1000% not because of Barzal carrying his team lol.. and it's not like Pettersson didn't "carry" his team to a play in series win first round upset over the defending champs and game 7 against a top 2 stanley cup favorites last year. other than his first season where he got a ton of PP time with tavares and finished the 85 points in 82 games... he's been on pace for 66-68 points every other season.. a far lower clip then Pettersson.. but whatever Pettersson is at best no better than Barzal lol despite every stats is in pettersson's favor.. as for Pettersson missing so much time? other than this season where he injured his wrist on a harmless play.. you can blame him for any of the other injury?? getting picked up and slammed to the ice by mathesson? the can opener by kotkaniemi?? those are more like attempts to injured more than a normal injury coz he pulled or tweaked something lol. he missed a grand total of 12 games in his 1st 2 season before this one 11 of those came from the mathesson and kotkaniemi cheap shot.. i hardly call that injury prone. no one cares what you or i think pettersson is worth.. there will be teams out there that have the cap space. it's not out of the realm of possibility someone will take a gamble on pettersson and offer 8-8.5 for 5+ years just like Montreal did with Aho.. all it cost is a 1st 2nd and a 3rd.. most 2nd and 3rd don't work out in the NHL anyways.. and more likely than not ur 1st will not be half the player Pettersson is. Benning better get this done one way or another before they get to the offer sheet period. Kraken would be a prime candidate that would consider an offer sheet.. getting a superstar in Pettersson and the 2nd overall pick to start ur team off?? cap wouldn't even be an issue with them.. and they'll be loaded with draft picks from side deals from other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 6 hours ago, N4ZZY said: I think the hope is that Quinn will eventually become a #1 defenseman. But that isn’t the case as of right now. Will he get there? I think he’s smart enough that he can. I hope he can. If he doesn’t, then this team is in deeper trouble than most realize. Thats my thought on it too. I believe he can and will improve significantly. Just not sure betting the farm on it with his second contract isnt a needlessly risky move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 18 hours ago, grandmaster said: I hate JP Barry Barry actually laughs when Dhaliwal brings up Loui. What a dick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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