How do you feel about our Management group?

[MikeyD]

I'm willing to give grace to Benning because I think on paper this team just needs some defensive pieces. 

 

However with that said, it doesn't matter if we iced the Tampa Bay Lightning. With Green and his assistants' systems that this team deploys we will never find the same success. You can't win games sacrificing offense 5 on 5 as much as we do. 

 

Nor is our defense even particularly good. We play a heavily defensive game without the great defensive players to do so. 

 

Ever since after the first season I've been advocating that Green wasn't a good coach and I've only had that idea confirmed every season. This team is just an easy team to play against, despite having quite a bit of skill. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

30 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said:

Bennings drafting as a whole has been second to none of any other time in Canucks history. The fact that this team has the luxery for players to leave is in its self unprecedented, not that I like seeing Gadj go but there are still at least 5 other NHL ready prospects in Abbotsford that were drafted and many others waiting in the wings. The core of this team is built around the draft as well of which Brian Burke may be the only other Canuck GM to come close to doing but not to the same success that Benning has had.

 

I do agree with your other assessments, especially coach Green. I question whether he plays favorites with some players based on past loyalties which can become a polarizing factor in the locker room. He seems a bit too prone to keep going back to the same well timne over time and reusing the same tactics that are ineffective which can be very frustrating as a fan.

I agree with you in regards to Benning's over all drafting.........I also put him as one of the better Canuck GM's in his drafting

 

But in saying that...I say 2 players or more per year, for each team, otherwise, the league will shrink in regards to players available or the talent will dilute

 

Now, in regards to his trading of picks .............I love Miller, and I am glad we acquired him, but I do think it was premature, as it is the holes we have today that

are really holding us back............in saying that, it was still a win..........

 

I think now the question will be, has Benning drafted enough talent to replace Miller while we can still get something for him (Think 1 or 2 years down the road)

 

Now....this is how I see the remaining prospects we have...........

 

DiPietro, Woo, Klimovich, Jurmo, Costmar, Zlodeyev, McDonaugh, Persson, Trustcott, Kunz, Lockwood, Focht, Silvos, Juulsen, Bowey and Karlsson....we need a few of these guys to go past their ceilings.............(It is an absolute must) as is Podkolzin has to reach his)

 

Our first next year, is important in that it has to be used wisely, and I would really like to see Benning go hard into the NCAA free agency in the next 2 years, and go after the best NCAA free agents, not the B-list, which is what he normally does.

 

lastly, I find it totally redundant to reminisce over past prospects....aka....Gaudette, Juolevi, Virtanen, Gadjovich, etc...........we would all of liked to see them turn out, but not as much as Benning would have.

 

I think CDC tends to think about things in lack and white, and in hindsight, where as Benning has to work in the now.........something he has been saying alot lately.

[FlyLow_]

I do not like aquaman at all, never have never will. He's only ever cared about just being good enough to get playoff revenue, never about tearing it down right and building a true contender.

 

I think Benning is a mixed bag, like most GM's. I'm not going to beat a dead horse. There's big hits and big misses, like most GM's.

 

I think Green is an excellent motivator and gets the most out of many players but he hasn't shown yet that he can get a team team to play with structure or make necessary adjustments. The lazy powerplay, passive defense and non-existent forecheck for his entire tenure here stand out in particular. His players play hard but often times aren't playing smart and look lost in his systems. Often times the systems Green has tried to employ don't fit the team either.

 

I thought this summer was a good opportunity to clean house and bring in a more experienced management and coaching staff that doesn't have attachments to players to see what this core can really do. Teams often hire inexperienced coaching staff's and even GM's in a rebuild then bring in the big guns to take the team to the next level. I personally feel that's what is required now, but we are where we are. We'll see how it goes. I don't think there's much leash left for anybody. 

[Dazzle]

Green is absolutely clueless about what he wants in his roster. This preseason has sealed the deal for me. He pushed out Gadj, overplaying Chiasson to the point that we THINK Canucks are interested in him, only to leave him dangling at the end.

 

What was Gadj doing so poorly that he couldn't fit into the lineup?

 

Green played a bunch of AHL stars and pushed out some prospects in the process. There was little to no evaluation on players like Woo, Dipietro, Gadj and so forth.

 

I'm really done with him as a coach. This Canuck team better be rolling 4-2 AT MINIMUM at the gate because the way he handled his preseason rosters was atrocious.

[J.I.A.H.N]

27 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Outside of those players already on the NHL roster, how much do we really have in the AHL pipeline? Not much really.

See my very last post Amigo

 

I think there is some players in this, but time will tell.

 

I absolutely liked Lockwood, his energy has been missed

 

This Victor Persson kid playing in Kamloops is worth watching. I like Silvos, and I think Woo plays a heavy game for his size. I t will also be interesting to see Klimovich and if we sign McDonaugh.

 

I think there is a few, so there is hope! Hopefully Gadjovich is sent down and we can pick him up.......still only a 4th line plug at this point, but a 2nd line player on SJ

[Dazzle]

6 minutes ago, FlyLow_ said:

I do not like aquaman at all, never have never will. He's only ever cared about just being good enough to get playoff revenue, never about tearing it down right and building a true contender.

 

I think Benning is a mixed bag, like most GM's. I'm not going to beat a dead horse. There's big hits and big misses, like most GM's.

 

I think Green is an excellent motivator and gets the most out of many players but he hasn't shown yet that he can get a team team to play with structure or make necessary adjustments. The lazy powerplay, passive defense and non-existent forecheck for his entire tenure here stand out in particular. His players play hard but often times aren't playing smart and look lost in his systems. Often times the systems Green has tried to employ don't fit the team either.

 

I thought this summer was a good opportunity to clean house and bring in a more experienced management and coaching staff that doesn't have attachments to players to see what this core can really do. Teams often hire inexperienced coaching staff's and even GM's in a rebuild then bring in the big guns to take the team to the next level. I personally feel that's what is required now, but we are where we are. We'll see how it goes. I don't think there's much leash left for anybody. 

Is he really?

 

If the only motivation is that you'll want to get into doghouse, that's not very motivating at all. Look at the vast improvement that Gadj had this offseason, and Green decides to ice some AHL vets (not AHL youngstar players) for his preseason game, ultimately cutting Gadj out. Trash management.

 

The way Green handled Juolevi was also garbage. Yes, the trade could help with the team, but players like Woo/Dipietro/Gadj/Juolevi didn't play all that much. What's the point in icing vets in preseason games?

Edited October 11, 2021 by Dazzle

[wallstreetamigo]

25 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Is he really?

 

If the only motivation is that you'll want to get into doghouse, that's not very motivating at all. Look at the vast improvement that Gadj had this offseason, and Green decides to ice some AHL vets (not AHL youngstar players) for his preseason game, ultimately cutting Gadj out. Trash management.

 

The way Green handled Juolevi was also garbage. Yes, the trade could help with the team, but players like Woo/Dipietro/Gadj/Juolevi didn't play all that much. What's the point in icing vets in preseason games?

Green is worse than Willie D and AV combined for favouritism and inexplicable beat downs on young players.

 

The ironic thing is Green himself came into the NHL a self entitled guy thinking he didn’t have to play defensively to be owed a spot. Arbour broke him of that really fast but still gave him opportunity as a young guy.

[Rdog]

High rollers! .. Hope there luck is better than mine

[IBatch]

Good job OP,  but i wanted to address the idea that we should find 2 roster players per draft as a given.    Just using the 2000-2010 decade, the average draft produced 60 NHLers that played 100 games, and only 40 that played more then 300...that's 1.35ish per draft that actually make it beyond a few tweener seasons.   Not common.   Lots of players get a cup of coffee but few stick.   And 1/3 of those that make it 100 games don't make it to 300.   AG probably ends up in that group.   Using a first for Miller and OEL/Garland came at a cap cost for sure, but a team rarely drafts 10 roster players (to me that's 300 game plus guys) in five or less years...at least aside from the late 70's, early 80's.    Teams go into a draft expecting one player, and hope for more.   In the end it comes down to how many games played overall  .... Milford had four drafts and got over 10,000 ... that's simply outstanding.   Doubt JB will surpass that mark from his four best drafts.   Other teams did too (check out the Oilers quantity and quality unbelievable from that era ) ...  I think JB quality helps - same with considering he "drafted" Miller, OEL and Garland in a way too...he didn't have those picks after all.  

 

Edit:  On the cups of coffee ... some of the more recent drafts (2010's) up to almost 50% of ALL the players played at least one game...those cups of coffee add up - and are used to help mitigate injuries and lower cap strapped teams.   Paying the upper bar blue chippers, 80% of the pie has created a bit of a vacuum on certain things, the league is "younger then ever" because serviceable vets retire rather then take the league minimum, and lesser players are given a chance that really have no business at all yet if ever.   Talent dilution has been a thing since the 2000's started really, expansion, cap etc...it's only been the last four or five years the talent is finally catching up to expansion levels of the 21 league years.   Also why we are seeing more goals scored.   That said it's still diluted to a degree with AHL level guys on teams like TO that really shouldn't be there ... or top heavy teams (just using them as an easy example).    Not that using vets helped them much last year either lol.   Call it "depth"... at least the talent levels are high again.  

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by IBatch

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

I'm willing to give grace to Benning because I think on paper this team just needs some defensive pieces. 

 

However with that said, it doesn't matter if we iced the Tampa Bay Lightning. With Green and his assistants' systems that this team deploys we will never find the same success. You can't win games sacrificing offense 5 on 5 as much as we do. 

 

Nor is our defense even particularly good. We play a heavily defensive game without the great defensive players to do so. 

 

Ever since after the first season I've been advocating that Green wasn't a good coach and I've only had that idea confirmed every season. This team is just an easy team to play against, despite having quite a bit of skill. 

This times one million

[komodo0921]

My opinions on team management are not as mixed as many CDCers.

I started an elaborate post  on my key points of why I feel the way I do but found my reply was going to be waaay too long for this thread.

Instead I'm simply going to say that my confidences in Canuck ownership, management, and coaching have soured.

Poor assessments of the team, bad signings, given away draft picks, bad trades, and lack of clear direction, have all contributed to the current mess that this Canucks team is in.

My only hope is that the total and utter failure I believe is coming in 2021-2022 will finally open the eyes of ownership and usher in philosophical changes to team strategy.

I am, through and through, a Canucks fan and always hold them dear to my heart but, over the past couple seasons, I've found myself more interested in what teams like the Red Wings and Ducks have been building than the moves of my own team.

I now joke that the Kraken will win a cup before the Canucks will.

I also find it more fun to watch teams that really want to create championship caliber teams like the Lightning.

The most annoying statement to me is the old "just get to the playoffs and anything can happen" approach. A weak statement made to disguise failure. 

The saddest thing I see are all the seasons spent at the top of the capspace limit with no real value being gained.

I don't understand how the Acquilini's can continue to support such incompetence being displayed using their money.

Anyway, I could continue to rant but, I'm sure this post will offer enough content to hate on.

[wallstreetamigo]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Good job OP,  but i wanted to address the idea that we should find 2 roster players per draft as a given.    Just using the 2000-2010 decade, the average draft produced 60 NHLers that played 100 games, and only 40 that played more then 300...that's 1.35ish per draft that actually make it beyond a few tweener seasons.   Not common.   Lots of players get a cup of coffee but few stick.   And 1/3 of those that make it 100 games don't make it to 300.   AG probably ends up in that group.   Using a first for Miller and OEL/Garland came at a cap cost for sure, but a team rarely drafts 10 roster players (to me that's 300 game plus guys) in five or less years...at least aside from the late 70's, early 80's.    Teams go into a draft expecting one player, and hope for more.   In the end it comes down to how many games played overall  .... Milford had four drafts and got over 10,000 ... that's simply outstanding.   Doubt JB will surpass that mark from his four best drafts.   Other teams did too (check out the Oilers quantity and quality unbelievable from that era ) ...  I think JB quality helps - same with considering he "drafted" Miller, OEL and Garland in a way too...he didn't have those picks after all.  

Your last point is the one that sticks with me.

 

Unless the analysis is adjusted to account for every good player another gm traded for in lieu of picks it’s simply being used as a way to pad Benning’s record with an apples to oranges comparison.

[IBatch]

23 minutes ago, komodo0921 said:

My opinions on team management are not as mixed as many CDCers.

I started an elaborate post  on my key points of why I feel the way I do but found my reply was going to be waaay too long for this thread.

Instead I'm simply going to say that my confidences in Canuck ownership, management, and coaching have soured.

Poor assessments of the team, bad signings, given away draft picks, bad trades, and lack of clear direction, have all contributed to the current mess that this Canucks team is in.

My only hope is that the total and utter failure I believe is coming in 2021-2022 will finally open the eyes of ownership and usher in philosophical changes to team strategy.

I am, through and through, a Canucks fan and always hold them dear to my heart but, over the past couple seasons, I've found myself more interested in what teams like the Red Wings and Ducks have been building than the moves of my own team.

I now joke that the Kraken will win a cup before the Canucks will.

I also find it more fun to watch teams that really want to create championship caliber teams like the Lightning.

The most annoying statement to me is the old "just get to the playoffs and anything can happen" approach. A weak statement made to disguise failure. 

The saddest thing I see are all the seasons spent at the top of the capspace limit with no real value being gained.

I don't understand how the Acquilini's can continue to support such incompetence being displayed using their money.

Anyway, I could continue to rant but, I'm sure this post will offer enough content to hate on.

That's fair...but you do know Detroit has been rebuilding as long as we have, longer really since Bertuzzi/Larkin.   And the Ducks?  Ugh... well whatever floats your boat i guess.  

Edited October 12, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

19 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Your last point is the one that sticks with me.

 

Unless the analysis is adjusted to account for every good player another gm traded for in lieu of picks it’s simply being used as a way to pad Benning’s record with an apples to oranges comparison.

Absolutely.   All teams that used their draft picks for a trade - those games that player played for their team plus whatever recycling (if any - including rentals with a year left on them), need to be factored in.   

[wallstreetamigo]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Absolutely.   All teams that used their draft picks for a trade - those games that player played for their team plus whatever recycling (if any - including rentals with a year left on them), need to be factored in.   

That’s my problem with this analysis. It includes other players not drafted by the GM and does not account for the other players acquired or developed in lieu of picks. It only factors these things as positive in Benning’s evaluation.

 

Tampa Bay trading Drouin for Sergachev is a good example. High pick, turned out pretty damn good for their core group.

[guntrix]

Can’t believe some people are still pinning Juolevi not working out on Green. 
 

Whether you side with Rathbone or Juolevi, the fact of the matter is that a former 2016 5th overall pick was competing against a 2017 95th overall pick and couldn’t convincingly edge him out (and imo fairly lost the spot). 
 

I think instead of blaming Green, we need to do a better job of letting go of guys that aren’t cutting it. 

[wallstreetamigo]

3 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Can’t believe some people are still pinning Juolevi not working out on Green. 
 

Whether you side with Rathbone or Juolevi, the fact of the matter is that a former 2016 5th overall pick was competing against a 2017 95th overall pick and couldn’t convincingly edge him out (and imo fairly lost the spot). 
 

I think instead of blaming Green, we need to do a better job of letting go of guys that aren’t cutting it. 

I think what bugs me is why people think anyone needed to side with Juolevi or Rathbone. There was room for both actually. Juolevi was moved because Green preferred Hunt, Schenn, and Burroughs. 

To me, especially with Hunt, it shows serious stupidity by the coaching staff.

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Outside of those players already on the NHL roster, how much do we really have in the AHL pipeline? Not much really.

Depietro, Silvos ,Klimovich, Lockwood, Keeper,

i put more weight in Juulsen and Lammikko doing better than OJ did.
The Latter on that trade with the Canucks roster right now.. as is Podolzkin.. but this IS camp and the beginning of the season.

We have a fantastic Goalie in the Euro League in Aku Koskevuo .   a good looking D man in Jurmo,  Toni Utenen

Zlodoyev looked good last year.… and we be damned that Tryamkin put love and family before hockey.

 

its not just about Abby..   I spoke of Abby because those boys get to use Canuck Trainers more, and it’s not thinking we’ re developing another Pettersen or Hughes some where.. those kind of players are rare for any club to have,. And if they do, they usually make the cut onto the big club early.

 

[SilentSam]

5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I think what bugs me is why people think anyone needed to side with Juolevi or Rathbone. There was room for both actually. Juolevi was moved because Green preferred Hunt, Schenn, and Burroughs. 

To me, especially with Hunt, it shows serious stupidity by the coaching staff.

No Joulevi had plateaued. And was playing like he owned a spot. It wasn’t going to get any better here.  Tic tok times up.

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, SilentSam said:

Depietro, Silvos ,Klimovich, Lockwood, Keeper,

i put more weight in Juulsen and Lammikko doing better than OJ did.
The Latter on that trade with the Canucks roster right now.. as is Podolzkin.. but this IS camp and the beginning of the season.

We have a fantastic Goalie in the Euro League in Aku Koskevuo .   a good looking D man in Jurmo,  Toni Utenen

Zlodoyev looked good last year.… and we be damned that Tryamkin put love and family before hockey.

 

its not just about Abby..   I spoke of Abby because those boys get to use Canuck Trainers more, and it’s not thinking we’ re developing another Pettersen or Hughes some where.. those kind of players are rare for any club to have,. And if they do, they usually make the cut onto the big club early.

 

Sorry but our system overall is pretty underwhelming. Players looking like they might be good is literally no different than every other team. The Canucks have a handful of decent prospects, that’s really it.