Canuck Luck Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: They picked 133 games AND age 23 as cutoffs because those are both where Hughes is right now. I’m sure there are defencemen that have reached 100 points in their first 133 games that were over the age of 23. Lol. Oh boy. Comprehension issues pal. THEY did not pick 133 games and THEY did not pick 23. THEY DID focus on the 100 points Hughes got and then realized it happened in 133 games and he happens to be under 23. Honestly, if you cannot understand this very simple concept, it is not worth being in any conversation with you lmao. Good luck out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: Orr will be on the next list when they do youngest players to 200 pts and 300 pts and so forth. He will continually be on the list in future comparisons. Marathon not a sprint... Still doesn't give a reason to undermine what Hughes has done at this point of his young career. Nobody is undermining anything. They cherry picked a stat to show that Hughes got his 100th point in his 133rd game prior to turning 23. He is in elite company. No one is disputing that. My point is you can cherry pick stats all day long to show what you want to show. When I saw that Bobby Orr wasn’t on the list I thought as first they missed him. Then I realized he just didn’t make the cut because of the first 133 games played cutoff not the age limit cutoff of 23. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Anyone have some fancy stats on Lammikko? I feel like he’s doing the right things defensively since you don’t notice him much. Would be nice to see if the stats back that up though. Florida fans were sad to see him go. They understood it was a numbers game and he was stuck behind their other centres but were still dissapointed to lose him. When is Sutter coming back? Our top 3Cs are solidified. I feel like Sutter is better than Lammikko? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Canuck Luck said: Lol. Oh boy. Comprehension issues pal. THEY did not pick 133 games and THEY did not pick 23. THEY DID focus on the 100 points Hughes got and then realized it happened in 133 games and he happens to be under 23. Honestly, if you cannot understand this very simple concept, it is not worth being in any conversation with you lmao. Good luck out there. Don’t worry I’ve been having some great conversations with posters for the last 3 years. I really won’t be missing the ones I won’t be having with you. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just now, CanucksJay said: Florida fans were sad to see him go. They understood it was a numbers game and he was stuck behind their other centres but were still dissapointed to lose him. When is Sutter coming back? Our top 3Cs are solidified. I feel like Sutter is better than Lammikko? Sutter is way better on the draw. And that is super important on the PK. Sutter wins the D zone PK draw and we get the puck out. Lammikko loses the draw and we are stuck in our own zone. But in open 5 on 5 play Lammikko is maybe better? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: Florida fans were sad to see him go. They understood it was a numbers game and he was stuck behind their other centres but were still dissapointed to lose him. When is Sutter coming back? Our top 3Cs are solidified. I feel like Sutter is better than Lammikko? Unfortunately I don’t think Sutter is coming back. He is suffering from long COVID which may end his career. At the very least he will be out for the season. I like Lammikko. I just wish he was a right hand shot. That would have helped greatly to replace Sutter. I’m thinking we may need to get a 4C who’s a right hand shot at some point. Lammikko can also play left wing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Nobody is undermining anything. They cherry picked a stat to show that Hughes got his 100th point in his 133rd game prior to turning 23. He is in elite company. No one is disputing that. My point is you can cherry pick stats all day long to show what you want to show. When I saw that Bobby Orr wasn’t on the list I thought as first they missed him. Then I realized he just didn’t make the cut because of the first 133 games played cutoff not the age limit cutoff of 23. Ok yeah no argument there. They cherry pick stats all the time or tv stations would not have any graphics of players to put upto hype up the game Like all that hype about McDavid and his 100 point quest. They had to say FASTEST player to hit 100 pts (in 25 years) because he's still behind a whole bunch of other players who did it in 53 games or less but it won't fit the narrative of fastest player to hit 100 pts. Edited October 22, 2021 by CanucksJay 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: Sutter is way better on the draw. And that is super important on the PK. Sutter wins the D zone PK draw and we get the puck out. Lammikko loses the draw and we are stuck in our own zone. But in open 5 on 5 play Lammikko is maybe better? Lammikko at left wing with a sold right hand shot at 4C would be ideal I think. Play Motte on right wing and we would have a very good 4th line. Not sure who is available at 4C though who is a right shot who is great on face offs and can kill penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeBrew Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 22 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: OEL is currently 30. Will he start regressing in 2 years? One thing OEL has going for him is that he is an effortless skater. A better comparison would be someone like Duncan Keith. The guy is 38 and still in the league. Another great example is Mark Giordano. He is also currently 38 and had his PEAK season as a 35 year old with 74 pts in 78 games. Not to say OEL will duplicate these trajectories, but if he keeps his legs and can still think the game at a high level, it’s possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan since 82 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 15 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Makar is an absolute match up beast, so athletic. Fox is playing 27/28 minutes a night, killing penalties, taking top match ups. Some great young D the last cpl years. Including Hughes who might not be the best of them? But is still ahead of the curve even in a V good group! Makar, Hughes, Heskainen, McAvoy, Fox, Chychrun, Dahlin, Dobson in no particular order, Drysdale, Romanov & Boqvist might get there... Am I missing anyone? Sergachev... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 53 minutes ago, khay said: Thanks for pointing out the tool. This helps. So I looked at Makar's teammate stats with MacKinnon. https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20182019&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=all&stdoi=oi&rate=n&v=t&playerid=8480069 First thing that stands out to me is Makar's CF% with and without MacKinnon. Makar without Mac has 50.71% CF%. With Mac is 68.22 CF% Safe to say that Makar benefits so much from playing with MacKinnon to see an increase of (68.22 - 50.71)/50.71 = 34.5 compared to his baseline CF% (without MacKinnon). When someone that you play with is attracting so much attention from the opponents, it is obviously going to open up a lot of ice for you. Even if they don't end up on the stat sheet together, one cannot overlook the fact that presence of MacKinnon makes it easier for Makar to get points. Again, let's not get caught up on the literal meaning of "shoveling" the puck to Nate. No one shovels the puck in the NHL -- the very reason why Makar gets to play with MacKinnon is because Makar is a great player. It's similar story with xGF%. Makar's xGF% with Mac is 69.96. Coincidentally (not really), Makar's xGF% with Raantannen is even higher at 71.20%. It's not really a coincidence, the high xGF% between Makar and Raantanen have a latent factor: playing with Mac. Makar's xGF% without Mac? 50.18%. That's drop of 20%. I'm no statistician (or am I?), but I'd say that's significant. Wouldn't you? Now, what about Mac's CF% and xGF% without Makar? 56.18% and 63.86% respectively. So it's safe to say, Mac is still amazing with or without Makar but when he does play with Makar, he's even better. I'd say Makar makes Mac even better too but not as much as Mac makes Makar better. Now, my knowledge of the advanced stats is rather limited so I may have misinterpreted some of these numbers. With all due respect, please enlighten me on where I am wrong (in fact, I have found your posts to be quite enlightening in the past so I'm looking forward to learning). My point stands. Makar gets points easier thanks to Mac. It's as obvious as everyone on Edmonton gets points easier thanks to McDavid. Or Burrows scored 30 goals and Granlund scored 20 goals because of playing with the Sedins. Makar and MacKinnon are on the powerplay together which is going to skew the offensive metrics when they are playing with each other at all strength. Have to use 5v5 rather than all strength because the non-MacKinnon players aren’t necessarily on the PP. It’s kind of normal that numbers are going to look better playing with the best players vs players who contribute at times significantly less to the scoresheet. Hughes probably has better numbers with the Lotto or the Horvat lines than when he is on the ice with the bottom-6. MacKinnon is a scoring line, just like the Lotto line is. Each time they are on the ice they will look to produce. Away from them Makar is not necessarily playing with another scoring line and likely has also been playing with defensive minded lines. Can’t really conclude that MacKinnon is less dependent of Makar than Makar is of him by looking at their with/without numbers differential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, HomeBrew said: Another great example is Mark Giordano. He is also currently 38 and had his PEAK season as a 35 year old with 74 pts in 78 games. Not to say OEL will duplicate these trajectories, but if he keeps his legs and can still think the game at a high level, it’s possible. Yeah I'm crossing my fingers that he is one of those guys that can keep up a high level of play for a long career. I don't think he plays a hard game but rather a game that results in longevity and it all starts with skating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: Ok yeah no argument there. They cherry pick stats all the time or tv stations would not have any graphics of players to put upto hype up the game Like all that hype about McDavid and his 100 point quest. They had to say FASTEST player to hit 100 pts (in 25 years) because he's still behind a whole bunch of other players who did it in 53 games or less but it won't fit the narrative of fastest player to hit 100 pts. Yes McDavid last year is a perfect example. They hyped that up big time. In 25 years conveniently excludes some of the greatest players ever. But I do see it as a milestone of some sort and the league wants to hype it up to get more viewers of course. It’s nice for teams to be able to show these stats for their fans to hype them up and put attention to their accomplishments. I can see using one cutoff to make comparisons. The only thing that really bothered me about the Hughes stat was they used 2 cutoffs, 133 games and age 23. I mean when do you stop? It’s a remarkable accomplishment by Hughes though. His numbers this year are really good on both the offensive and defensive side. If he can keep that plus/minus in check he can do great things in the future. A Norris trophy could be in the cards for him at some point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeBrew Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, Fan since 82 said: Sergachev... He’s too old. Kidding! Man I wished we had drafted him that year… It was Chuck or Serg for me that year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Anyone know how many points 18 year old Sam Bennet has since he turned 19? Trick question, as you can't score points, as an 18 yr old if you aren't 18. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, HomeBrew said: He’s too old. Kidding! Man I wished we had drafted him that year… It was Chuck or Serg for me that year. Too many what ifs. Would we have finished with a few more pts with those guys? Would we then have been able to draft Petterson and Hughes? I think our time is now. We need to gel quickly as a team and surprise a lot of ppl out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba6 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Nobody is undermining anything. They cherry picked a stat to show that Hughes got his 100th point in his 133rd game prior to turning 23. He is in elite company. No one is disputing that. My point is you can cherry pick stats all day long to show what you want to show. When I saw that Bobby Orr wasn’t on the list I thought as first they missed him. Then I realized he just didn’t make the cut because of the first 133 games played cutoff not the age limit cutoff of 23. I thought this stat was among Active players? never mind i was thinking of the other graphic with stats was similar though just was based on active NHL players. Edited October 22, 2021 by bubba6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Glad that they won and put in a solid effort, but when Green and some of the players oversell this victory in interviews after the game, I get a bit worried. This was not a statement game. They still got hemmed in their zone for long stretches in the first, coughed up the puck way too often and struggled to break down a pretty fragile defense. It's absolutely fair to say that this team is going to need some time to gell, and that some players like Petterson need some time to get back in top form. But let's be real about where we're at in the process. It's a good thing we're not going up against any top teams in the league at the moment. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Luck Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 38 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Don’t worry I’ve been having some great conversations with posters for the last 3 years. I really won’t be missing the ones I won’t be having with you. It's not like you understand simple concepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Have they announced when they’re wearing the skate jerseys yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now