FIRE Jim Benning & Travis Green Thread

[Kurgom]

Ownership is a lot worse off money wise than most people realize, and nothing will happen until they recover financially from the pandemic. Green is a budget coach that will never coach in the NHL again, Benning is a budget GM, they would have been gone by now if the pandemic didn't happen.

[D.B Cooper]

3 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

If the coaching sucks then the team can't be any good (especially if they are losing) 

Oh. I see what you are doing.  
What a waste of time you are.  
You are choosing to ignore what I actually said just for an argument, even though we agree the coaching sucks.   
Go to bed

[kanucks25]

3 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:

I hate to be a stats chaser but Oliver Kylington waived midway through training camp then called back up and plays 18 minutes a night average for the flames and has 10 points in 14 games now. I know Benning is head hunting for a RHD but come on this guy is better than Hunt, Schenn, Burroughs and Bowey and he just keeps what he’s got to what reserve his high waiver priority? As if somebody is going to drop a good RHD that we’ll need a high waiver priority to get. When the opportunity comes up you gotta upgrade even if it’s his 7 or 8 dman because Kylington while he only would have been an upgrade on our 7 and 8 dmen he’s taken a step this year and would probably be our number 5 with potential.

The guy he's partnered with has a lot to do with his emergence.

 

Boy, it'd be nice to have someone like him around here. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by kanucks25

[48MPHSlapShot]

33 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

Our management sucks.   
They are still given everything they need to succeed. 

Who hired our management and still employs them? Who gave Benning his extension? Why is our front office so thin? 

 

If you want to blame management, you have to blame the ownership that employs the current management group as well, just like you have to hold management responsible if you want to blame the coaching staff. 

[iinatcc]

1 minute ago, D.B Cooper said:

Oh. I see what you are doing.  
What a waste of time you are.  
You are choosing to ignore what I actually said just for an argument, even though we agree the coaching sucks.   
Go to bed

I can also go through the whole team if you want. 

 

You know the part of the Canucks depth in d being terrible ? 

[RWJC]

4 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Fine, then don't sign him. Let him be overpaid elsewhere.

 

I mean, I would if we could. But we'd have to pay a crapload of assets or take back similar salary to do it.

 

This is quite presumptuous logic, to say the least. 

 

I guess this is where we disagree. I don't really care what other bad contracts / negative assets are scattered throughout the league.

 

It simply does not justify mistakes here.

 

Like, I don't pay $2,000 for a cell phone. I think it's dumb. I don't care what other people spend, I don't care that it's the going rate for a top-end phone.

 

It doesn't matter to me, what matters to me is what makes sense for me and my finances.

Signing a ~30 year-old bottom-half of your lineup on a contender D-man to a long-term contract when you're not close to competing is foolish. It's completely foolish to tie up your cap in this way. Go look at Detroit's capfriendly page to get an idea of what a cap structure should look like in a proper rebuild.

 

You're not considering the domino effect on our cap. No Myers means we probably retain Tanev and so many of the problems we've faced since letting him go (both on and off the ice) are greatly diminished.

I hear ya about where we were in the rebuild at the time, but obviously JB and FA believed we were much closer to being a very competitive team. 
 

Regarding Schmidt’s trade value…it’s not presumptuous at all. He was bought and sold for a 3rd, both transactions occurring under different circumstance. Therefore, his league wide market value was just that - a 3rd round pick. 
 

Regarding the cell phone analogy, if you require a $2000 phone to do your job, to enable other features to help improve your performance, to rely on, and especially if there’s nothing else readily available to you in the market, plus it’s a circumstance where the only cost is the purchase of the phone and term, rather than having to sell off your back up phone or other assets  I to acquire something similar to your purchase, then it’s unfortunately the cost of doing business. 

with regard to Detroit if you look at their roster it was comprised of a few overpriced declining vets prior to rebuild. 
our roster was much different and in an advanced stage of rebuild/build at the time. 
 

no offense at all but it’s presumption to assume what would have happened if we didn’t sign Myers. It’s be interesting to see where we would be for sure, but unfortunately it provides no context in this case. 

[D.B Cooper]

2 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Who hired our management and still employs them? Who gave Benning his extension? Why is our front office so thin? 

 

If you want to blame management, you have to blame the ownership that employs the current management group as well, just like you have to hold management responsible if you want to blame the coaching staff. 

Obviously they have a hand in this as well.  
They are the ones who hired Benning, and is keeping him around.    
BUT

At the same time, do you blame Ronald McDonald when a branch is failing?   
The management is put in place, and the owner is responsible for financing.  They have done that.  

Benning should be gone as well, but at this point, I think Green should be taking more criticism. He has done nothing but take a step back with an improved group.  
 

 

[D.B Cooper]

7 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

I can also go through the whole team if you want. 

 

You know the part of the Canucks depth in d being terrible ? 

Again, no shyte.   
I mentioned the 3rd pairing is awful.  It would be fair to assume the players lower than them on the depth chart are worse, no?   
Jesus man.  What are you even doing?   Hahah

[kanucks25]

8 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Who hired our management and still employs them? Who gave Benning his extension? Why is our front office so thin? 

 

If you want to blame management, you have to blame the ownership that employs the current management group as well, just like you have to hold management responsible if you want to blame the coaching staff. 

They are all to blame.

 

Meddlesome owner.

Incompetent management.

Minor league coach.

 

It's not a recipe for success.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

Obviously they have a hand in this as well.  
They are the ones who hired Benning, and is keeping him around.    
BUT

At the same time, do you blame Ronald McDonald when a branch is failing?   
The management is put in place, and the owner is responsible for financing.  They have done that.  

Benning should be gone as well, but at this point, I think Green should be taking more criticism. He has done nothing but take a step back with an improved group.  
 

 

Some Posters here:

[iinatcc]

2 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

Again, no shyte.   
I mentioned the 3rd pairing is awful.  It would be fair to assume the players lower than them on the depth chart are worse, no?   
Jesus man.  What are you even doing?   Hahah

Well I know at least I'm not using profanity in my replies and throwing condescending comments 

[D.B Cooper]

Just now, iinatcc said:

Well I know at least I'm not using profanity in my replies and throwing condescending comments 

[48MPHSlapShot]

6 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

They are all to blame.

 

Meddlesome owner.

Incompetent management.

Minor league coach.

 

It's not a recipe for success.

It's depressing to think that the only way the chain of ineptitude can truly end is with new ownership.

[D.B Cooper]

12 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

They are all to blame.

 

Meddlesome owner.

Incompetent management.

Minor league coach.

 

It's not a recipe for success.

Do you have evidence that actually proves meddling ownership, or is that an assumption? 

[48MPHSlapShot]

1 minute ago, D.B Cooper said:

Do you have evidence that actually proves meddling ownership, or is that an assumption? 

This isn't a court, dude. 

[grandmaster]

34 minutes ago, Kurgom said:

Ownership is a lot worse off money wise than most people realize, and nothing will happen until they recover financially from the pandemic. Green is a budget coach that will never coach in the NHL again, Benning is a budget GM, they would have been gone by now if the pandemic didn't happen.

Ownership will lose more money when folks stop going to games. 

[D.B Cooper]

9 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

This isn't a court, dude. 

I’m genuinely curious to know if the is any truth to it, or just assumptions by people who want changes?

Does he actually meddle?  If so, to what extent?

[kanucks25]

11 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

Do you have evidence that actually proves meddling ownership, or is that an assumption? 

I mean based on everything we've heard since Gillis's last year? You've got to put two and two together.

 

I'm not exonerating Benning because of it, but it's a factor. 

 

[Melbourne Canuck]

8 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

There is a HUGE BENEFIT to canning the current GM...it gives the NEW GM the rest of the year to evaluate the players, especially leading up to the TDL. New GM can then maybe move some players out for picks or prospects...Also gives the NEW GM nearly a full year to assess his scouts, make any changes like bring in his OWN Assistant GM and have a decent game plan leading into the 2022 Draft and FA.

 

It would be FOOLISH to not can the GM now and to wait to the end of the year...teams are less likely to let Managerial people go to a degree but MOST IMPORTANTLY it gives the NEW GM little to no time to assess the team, get ready for the draft etc...

 

I 100% DISagree with what you say, BOTH should go but the first should be the GM, so he doesn't make any short sided moves...give the NEW GM time to talk to the players and assess Green on his own, can still FIRE Green soon after being hired

Fair enough. I respect that view. I see it slightly differently though in that I believe the coach isn't getting the best out of the playing group. What if a new coach comes in and the performance spikes such as Calgary under Sutter? I think the coach needs to change first in order to judge the roster. What we’re seeing now is a continuation of last season IMO. What’s the definition of insanity? We should see change if there’s another blowout tonight. 

[kanucks25]

Clown show.