kanucks25 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, King Heffy said: And when the team was clearly not a contender, Gillis still chose to handicap the franchise by trading Luongo instead of buying him out like anyone with a functioning brain would have done. He kept a lot of draft picks, he simply lacked the intelligence to be able to identify players who could play in the NHL. Didn't he get a Vezina calibre goalie in return in that trade? One that we let walk away for free to a divisional rival along with our best D-man? Edited December 3, 2021 by kanucks25 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 1 minute ago, kanucks25 said: Didn't he get a Vezina calibre goalie in return in that trade? One that we let walk away for free to a divisional rival along with our best D-man? He got 2 years of solid goaltending in exchange for crippling the franchise long-term with the retained salary, and taking the recapture completely out of the control of the Canucks. He should have been fired on the spot for even suggesting that trade; unfortunately Aquilini didn't step up and prevent him from making it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, King Heffy said: He got 2 years of solid goaltending in exchange for crippling the franchise long-term with the retained salary, and taking the recapture completely out of the control of the Canucks. He should have been fired on the spot for even suggesting that trade; unfortunately Aquilini didn't step up and prevent him from making it. 3x3 from 2019 to 2021 "crippled the franchise long-term"? I don't think even you believe what you say, it's parody level, but not in an endearing way like @apollo Edited December 3, 2021 by kanucks25 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 58 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: At the time the contract was signed, it was legal. We were retroactively punished as the recapture penalty was only added to the CBA afterwards. So far we're the only team that has been stung by it. Even the draft pick that New Jersey had taken away for the Kovalchuk contract was later returned to them. Your gripe is with the league, not Gillis. I believe LA got stung too? Regardless it was bull$&!#, that I do agree with, but I still believe the club was warned by NHL, that it would be considered circumventing the rules... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: 3x3 from 2019 to 2021 "crippled the franchise long-term"? I don't think even you believe what you say, it's parody level, but not in an endearing way like @apollo Yes, only an idiot would have ran that risk, and it could have been even worse. Just because Benning hasn't done a good job of cleaning up the mess left for him doesn't change the fact that Gillis was the worst GM in the history of the franchise. You're welcome to your own opinion, but the trade was stupid then and would be stupid today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 1 minute ago, spook007 said: I believe LA got stung too? Regardless it was bull$&!#, that I do agree with, but I still believe the club was warned by NHL, that it would be considered circumventing the rules... The league did warn them but retroactively punishing them when the nhl could have vetoed the contract at the time to make it compliant is just bush league. Teams all the time circumvent the cap. Like Chicago and mystery ltir ailments for every anchor contract or TB with sitting Kucherov out for a regular season only to miraculously return in game 1 of the playoffs. The fact that it’s selectively applied retroactive punishment is the problem. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxVerstappen33 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 hours ago, D-Money said: Roy was a playoff rental, happens all the time. Ballard looked good at the time. Booth cost very little, and was looking good until that injury. Regardless, Gillis built a winning team, something Benning has sucked balls at. I think he did a fine job, 2nd best GM we've ever had IMO. But then again, after the past 7+ years, with someone who is widely regarded as one of the worst GMs of the salary cap era running things...maybe I'm glossing over some of the lows. It's just a load of absolute garbage that Benning is one of the worst in the salary cap era. He has never signed a franchise crippling contract or made a laugher trade like Chiarelli or Rutherford. Look around the league before you spout off nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, spook007 said: I believe LA got stung too? Regardless it was bull$&!#, that I do agree with, but I still believe the club was warned by NHL, that it would be considered circumventing the rules... Not sure about LA. The only player I can think of would be Richards but he had his contract terminated. And I'm not saying you're lying, but this is the first I've heard of the warning - do you have any source for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, King Heffy said: Yes, only an idiot would have ran that risk, and it could have been even worse. Just because Benning hasn't done a good job of cleaning up the mess left for him doesn't change the fact that Gillis was the worst GM in the history of the franchise. You're welcome to your own opinion, but the trade was stupid then and would be stupid today. If a 3x3 recapture penalty was "crippling", what was Loui's 6x6? A nuclear bomb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: 3x3 from 2019 to 2021 "crippled the franchise long-term"? I don't think even you believe what you say, it's parody level, but not in an endearing way like @apollo 5 seasons of the 6 million dollar 4th line winger must have left no appendages for the franchise if 3x3 is "crippling". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, kanucks25 said: If a 3x3 recapture penalty was "crippling", what was Loui's 6x6? A nuclear bomb? Wasn't a good move either. You do realize that we haven't had a qualified GM since Burke, right? Nonis managed well enough to not screw things up too badly, and then it was downhill from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Wasn't a good move either. You do realize that we haven't had a qualified GM since Burke, right? Nonis managed well enough to not screw things up too badly, and then it was downhill from there. Nonis only had 4 years as GM. Got us a legit NHL goalie (Luongo). A NHL coach that won the Jack Adams trophy (for us). Signed free agent Willie Mitchell. Drafted Edler & Schneider while his highest 1st round pick was 10th overall (Luc who died tragically in an accident). I think he did an underrated job here. Edited December 3, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, King Heffy said: Wasn't a good move either. You do realize that we haven't had a qualified GM since Burke, right? Nonis managed well enough to not screw things up too badly, and then it was downhill from there. Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said: 5 seasons of the 6 million dollar 4th line winger must have left no appendages for the franchise if 3x3 is "crippling". Well, you heard it here first. 3x3 unfair retroactive penalty "crippled the franchise longterm" but Loui's 6x6 was just "not a good move either". How are you even supposed to have an adult conversation here? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxVerstappen33 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, King Heffy said: Wasn't a good move either. You do realize that we haven't had a qualified GM since Burke, right? Nonis managed well enough to not screw things up too badly, and then it was downhill from there. Really. Both Gillis and Benning don't deserve to be in the worst GM category. And Neither did Nonis. They have all been a step above the worst which we should be happy about. Nonis did blow way too much assets out the door for that one cup run attempt. Shane Brown, Marty Ruccinsky , Jeff Sanderson , Keith Carney and Mikka Norenen. All rentals. That was nutty but still not terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxVerstappen33 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Nonis only had 4 years as GM. Got us a legit NHL goalie (Luongo). A NHL coach that won the Jack Adams trophy (for us). Signed free agent Willie Mitchell. Drafted Edler & Schneider. I think he did an underrated job here. I agree. He matched Keslers offer sheet too. Pretty sure he signed Burrows under market value too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said: I agree. He matched Keslers offer sheet too. Pretty sure he signed Burrows under market value too Yup & I think Burrows was signed as a free agent/undrafted prospect under Nonis' watch as well. Edited December 3, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, King Heffy said: And when the team was clearly not a contender, Gillis still chose to handicap the franchise by trading Luongo instead of buying him out like anyone with a functioning brain would have done. He kept a lot of draft picks, he simply lacked the intelligence to be able to identify players who could play in the NHL. Who else should be blamed despite the idiot who made the trade exposing us to the recapture? Other options were available. I believe you're way off course here. Luongo or as some would wish to call St. Lou. played fast and lose until Mrs Lou paid a surpise visit. That was the end of Lou's tenure as a Canuck. She insisted that Lou's time in Vcr was over and he'd never play here again !!! She wanted him in Miami close to her parents home and business. Gillis had a trade lined up with TO who Lou turned down on the hopes that he would be traded to Florida, which of course he eventually did. It left MG in a very poor position but he did manage to get Markstrom. Loungo was signed to a long term contract ( which both parties signed) although uncontentous with the old CBA it really riled Betteman who made sure he made his point retroactively by changing the rules in the NEW CBA that Gillis had used. It jammed Gillis up big time ( and Vcr ) At the end both Totroella and Gillis realized the team needed refreshing they'd come to the end of their day. Gillis traded Schneider for the pick which brought in Horvat, which IMO was a traded that favoured Vcr by a large margin ( Shneider not even in the league now) so Schneiders gone, under terrible stress he managed to land Markstrom and then he was fired. Nothing like out standing success to get you fired!! I don't want to bring up his one sided trades and FA signing such as Tanev and Erhoff along with Matheu Snider (great blue line but ravged by injury in th end ). I don't need to list the muscle he brought in, which stood him well in the SC run which is sadly lacking today ( different era). Naw JB will be fired because he's failed, he's had a long leash and no resitriction regarding salary ( but he scr ew ed that up too ) Edited December 3, 2021 by Fred65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said: It's just a load of absolute garbage that Benning is one of the worst in the salary cap era. He has never signed a franchise crippling contract or made a laugher trade like Chiarelli or Rutherford. Look around the league before you spout off nonsense Lol Loui was definitely a franchise crippling contract. Add in a bunch of smaller overpayments like Sutter, Pearson, Roussel, Beagle, Myers, Hamonic, etc and it certainly lost the team the ability to add and keep key difference making players and quality depth. Death by a thousand cuts is the best way to describe his cap mismanagement. Benning was also a big proponent for the Seguin for Loui trade in Boston btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Nonis only had 4 years as GM. Got us a legit NHL goalie (Luongo). A NHL coach that won the Jack Adams trophy (for us). Signed free agent Willie Mitchell. Drafted Edler & Schneider while his highest 1st round pick was 10th overall (Luc who died tragically in an accident). I think he did an underrated job here. Agreed actually. On top of that, but if you try and run statistics on drafting (including taking into account on where each GM was able to draft), Nonis was actually more successful than BOTH Gillis and Benning. This is mostly due to having drafted Edler, Hansen, Schneider, Raymond, and Grabne among others, which is actually more impressive than I think some people want to think (albeit who knows how much influence Burke had that 1st year). Edited December 3, 2021 by The Lock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: The league did warn them but retroactively punishing them when the nhl could have vetoed the contract at the time to make it compliant is just bush league. Teams all the time circumvent the cap. Like Chicago and mystery ltir ailments for every anchor contract or TB with sitting Kucherov out for a regular season only to miraculously return in game 1 of the playoffs. The fact that it’s selectively applied retroactive punishment is the problem. I don't disagree one bit regarding this... The fact is, the way the NHL is run, the club can screw one another over if they feel like it. You named a great example, so why are they getting away these circumventions of the rules? Is it something they have against VCR in the NHL? But if you are warned, the way the NHL is set up, you run the risk of getting punished... Thats the way they play the game, and we can all complain about it till the cows come in, but that doesn't change it. Canucks hoped to get away with it, but the other NHL teams decided to screw us over... amongst others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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