[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Gawdzukes]

41 minutes ago, JM_ said:

no, but neither is Byram. I hope we don't cave in for Girard, he a good player obviously but we're too small in our d pairings as it is. 

I would take it myself. I do think smaller players can be very effective they just need to be good hockey players. Currently we have zero players that move the needle on RD, we can't even load up a line. When the game is on the line and we need a goal we put out Miller, Petey, Pods, Bo, Garland, Hughes, etc., and ... Myers. 

 

If we had Girard we could back him up with two larger defensive dmen. I would then move Rathbone and replace with a more defensive player as well.

[aGENT]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Exactly.   And right now Demko plus QHs are cost controlled.   Who knows what their next deals look like, but just like Millers next one, in 4-5 years those guys will be up for theirs too (legacy deals that is).   Capwise this team is entering its peak right now (thanks JB lol it's pretty decent but could be better!).   Possibly even at it this season.

 

Personally i consider this part of our "window" even though it's not wide wide,  it's worth a look at what this team can do with Miller this season .... if the wheels fall of it's pretty easy to trade a few guys to help for the future.    Tricky part is doing it in a way those guys do want to stay indeed, and also manage to ascend or at least stay pretty even while we wait for the D to be sorted.   Teams usually have to wait for cap to go up once their core is on their third deals.    And often (CHI, LA), it doesn't work...once the stars get paid ... yikes. 

 

Question, i do get that it's the 26-32 age you get the best from your group...i've read quite a few saying our window is in four years.   I could agree with that, the majority of our guys will be in that age group then.   Miller (if he stays), would be 33 so just outside it...I'm hoping that we get a long window, like PIT, WSH, Boston,  even St. Louis and SJ had.   And that there will be a few bumps in the road.   

 

I guess i see value in Miller and playoffs versus trading Miller just to avoid his next deal.    It's really tough to guess how this season plays out.   Do we play like we did down the stretch the entire season?   Or do things sink down to Earth a little.   I think the former.   I'm glad Miller hasn't been traded yet, it means like they've said, they are in no rush.   And playoffs for sure is the goal this season.   Hedican/Brown Lafayette ... well maybe Miller becomes that for us at or before the trade line, sure would be nice for us.   Cap won't go up in time to sign both Horvat and Miller ... will it, not without some less then ideal trades return wise.   Tiny bit of space left for next season as it is.   Kadri getting 7 years means Miller likely will want 8. 

I see value at Miller in the playoffs in this very early, slightly cracked open window as well. Same value in saw in him when we're acquired him. And if we could sign him for 5'ish years at $7.5-$8, or even better, he was still under contract for a few more years.... I'd be right there with you guys.

 

But that 26-32 +/- "wide open" window, which I think we all agree it's our best shot... Do we even get that window, paying the 33+  Miller $9m on a 6-8 year deal....? Sure would make it a LOT harder (and make us lose other good players - Bo? - and likely more futures/prospect depth clearing out less efficient deals like Dickinson, that also contribute to constraining that window opening).

 

I'm personally not inclined to bet all that future promise we've built up over the last +/- decade, on the current, ill constructed, no organizational or prospect depth, dog's breakfast RHD, non contention team. Even if said team may be good enough to win a round or two. It's short term thinking to get more immediate gratification, at the expense of the more promising, long term. And yeah, I get there's no guarantees. It's sports.

 

And personally, I think we're good enough, assuming some useful Miller-return, to remain a bubble playoff team anyway. It's not like we have to trudge through miserable losing seasons in the interim.

 

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

 

Edit: Food for thought.   If we simply have to trade Miller because no way he's going to earn his next deal...what makes QHs and Demko so different in 4-5 years?   Will they also need to be traded because they can't earn their legacy deals?  Get QHs will be a couple years younger ... But not Demko. 

 

We may also be trading him because there's no way he's extending with us at anything that resembles working for the club.

 

The difference is, Hughes will be younger than Miller for one. Our team will actually be in their prime and with the window wide open and (hopefully) with even a "mostly fixed" RHD, legit 3C, built up organizational/prospect depth, aged out buyouts/inefficient deals etc, etc. I've said numerous times that we likely will have to sign some "retirement deals" at some point. But like Calgary, you do that when you're "win now", not when you're "win in 2-3 + years"

Edited August 19, 2022 by aGENT

[stawns]

49 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

It would be pretty hard for everything one person to do to be a disaster but JB did not plan for a window of opportunity to compete for a cup

As i stated on just the moves he made last year at this time  that he made the team better (for the coming year most likely), but at the cost of the future and timing to be #1

How sweet it would be to have not done last years deal and have Guenther (or others) and the freedom of all the cap space to take players we wanted and have THEM give us picks to do it, while keeping the players we already wanted

JB's plan was to have a solid team with Feeland, Sutter, Roussel, Beagle, Marky, Edler etc.  Sadly, it was sunk by injuries and he had to re-jig it into a rebuild, which he did decently well.

 

 

[stawns]

30 minutes ago, mll said:

It's still weakening their D-corps which they don't seem to want to do.  Their goalie tandem might not hold up - Francouz and Georgiev have been backup goalies and have yet to show that they can be starters.

 

I don't think so after re-signing Manson and the emergence of Byram.  I think they'd rather have the cap space

[stawns]

27 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I would take it myself. I do think smaller players can be very effective they just need to be good hockey players. Currently we have zero players that move the needle on RD, we can't even load up a line. When the game is on the line and we need a goal we put out Miller, Petey, Pods, Bo, Garland, Hughes, etc., and ... Myers. 

 

If we had Girard we could back him up with two larger defensive dmen. I would then move Rathbone and replace with a more defensive player as well.

Girard is smaller, but he isn't soft either and he's pretty solid defensively.

[J.I.A.H.N]

I got a 3 way trade to look at.................

 

Miller to NY Islanders

 

Varlamov and Mayfield to Vegas

 

Whitecloud, Vegas's 2023 1st and Raty to Vancouver

 

 

The Islanders do this to improve their offense, and add a top end scorer. Sorokin is there to take the helm from Varlamov. Cap in is $6,450,000, but Varlamov's $5,000,000 is covered by Lehner's LTIR. Both Varlamov and Mayfield's contracts are up at the end of the year, so the Islanders can use that as part of Miller's next contract. Both Varlamov and Mayfield are expendable, and replaceable. Realistically, Raty is truly the only piece the Islanders will miss.

 

Vegas gets their goalie to replace Lehner, possibly long term, so acquiring him now, might have been something they had to look at anyways, if Lehner doesn't recover. Mayfield for Whitecloud is a pretty even trade, in terms of talent, with only age being the big difference. Vegas can resign Mayfield cheap enough. The reason to make this trade for Vegas is that they desperately, need a starting goalie with Lehner out for the season, or write off the season. Vegas has never taken that road, not even from the start of their franchise, and I don't think they do it now. They have enough depth to replace Whitecloud, and the 2023 - 1st, is what they would pay for Varlamov alone.

 

Vancouver does this to get a defensive Defenseman, who posts sold defensive numbers every year, and who is still young and on a cheap, long term contract. He is Hughes line-mate! Vegas's 2023-1st will be in the 18 to 24 OA area. Leaning towards the 24 OA area. Raty was a 2nd rounder after falling from the top of the first round projections. Raty is trending upwards, and will be a great 2/3 line Center when ready.

 

Over all, I see this helping all the teams, and letting Vancouver to shed cap. Miller for Whitecloud, a 1st, and Raty is very much a futures trade, that works for us now, as well.

Whiteclouds contract is 6 years X $2,750,000 per starting this year, which allows us to look for a 3rd line center, either in trade , promotion from within, or UFA (Stastny short term and cheap)

 

I think this works for all involved and any little adjustments, will be of the minor variety.

 

Now, can I get @mll to check this over!

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[Goal:thecup]

21 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Not suddenly. He is younger than Kadri  How are you even attempting to debate this? 

 

You do both realize that Calgary is in a far different position as a team than Vancouver, right? Yup do grasp that teams have cycles of contention and rebuilding and that they are in the middle end of their window, and we're JUST entering ours in a year or two?

 

We have contract comparables, his agent's comments, managements comments and his comments. Anyone without some +/- idea of what his likely contract ask is at this point, is being willfully ignorant.

 

 

There's a chance i win the lottery this weekend too. But I'm not buying a Lambo today because I think that might happen.

Lighten up the attitude.

Can't even read your stuff anymore because of it.

It is still August for a couple weeks and believe it or not, you might not be right about everything all the time.

Everybody can have a good time here without the belittling thanks.

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

Double Post! sorry!

Edited August 19, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[spook007]

1 hour ago, ba;;isticsports said:

It would be pretty hard for everything one person to do to be a disaster but JB did not plan for a window of opportunity to compete for a cup

As i stated on just the moves he made last year at this time  that he made the team better (for the coming year most likely), but at the cost of the future and timing to be #1

How sweet it would be to have not done last years deal and have Guenther (or others) and the freedom of all the cap space to take players we wanted and have THEM give us picks to do it, while keeping the players we already wanted

Fair enough, but I am not too displeased, that we traded for OEL, and I think he's been a good signing for us. 

Depends on how we look at it... 

If we wanna take a swing at it now, I think it was a good trade... Garland, if not in their plans, should be able to bring back something..

 

However if we let Miller go now, it will likely be a few years before we can make a proper push for the playoffs and go past rd 1. And in that case we may have been better off with Gunther...time will tell.

 

I think Aquilini wanted play offs hockey...now...

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Fair enough, but I am not too displeased, that we traded for OEL, and I think he's been a good signing for us. 

Depends on how we look at it... 

If we wanna take a swing at it now, I think it was a good trade... Garland, if not in their plans, should be able to bring back something..

 

However if we let Miller go now, it will likely be a few years before we can make a proper push for the playoffs and go past rd 1. And in that case we may have been better off with Gunther...time will tell.

 

I think Aquilini wanted play offs hockey...now...

And well he should, that's the point and I think they're still a bubble playoff team.even with a Miller deal 

[Ballisticsports.]

2 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Fair enough, but I am not too displeased, that we traded for OEL, and I think he's been a good signing for us. 

Depends on how we look at it... 

If we wanna take a swing at it now, I think it was a good trade... Garland, if not in their plans, should be able to bring back something..

 

However if we let Miller go now, it will likely be a few years before we can make a proper push for the playoffs and go past rd 1. And in that case we may have been better off with Gunther...time will tell.

 

I think Aquilini wanted play offs hockey...now...

Yes many roads will lead the same destination, but as we are seeing now we weaved on so many roads wasting time that we got lost and are behind schedule now

I myself wasn't a fan of the route taken (after a few years) but can respect others who were on board with every move

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

It hasn’t been a playoff team and the new management group has repeatedly made it clear there is a lot of work to do both in fixing the roster and fixing the prospect pipeline.

 

They just haven’t been able to accomplish either of those things yet.  It doesn’t strike me as meaning Benning did things right.

That may also be right. 

But time is ticking, and so far they haven't made any moves of significance, so it remains to be seen.

 

What they have done, I hired an awful lot of backroom staff, so it will be interesting to see if this makes it better. 

 

I still think Bennings biggest mistake was surrounding himself with the wrong people, and holding on to Green, when it obviously wasn't working. 

[spook007]

1 minute ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Yes many roads will lead the same destination, but as we are seeing now we weaved on so many roads wasting time that we got lost and are behind schedule now

I myself wasn't a fan of the route taken (after a few years) but can respect others who were on board with every move

Cheers amigo. Likewise...

[Provost]

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

That may also be right. 

But time is ticking, and so far they haven't made any moves of significance, so it remains to be seen.

 

What they have done, I hired an awful lot of backroom staff, so it will be interesting to see if this makes it better. 

 

I still think Bennings biggest mistake was surrounding himself with the wrong people, and holding on to Green, when it obviously wasn't working. 

Yep, they haven’t proven anything yet.  It is one big step forward that they have clearly articulated a plan… they just have to actually execute it.

 

They waffled last trade deadline when they said the team needed a bunch of work but didn’t make trades to clear cap.  The faint playoff run hopes didn’t justify the lack of moves.

 

As it stands now, that seems to have been a miscalculation of how tight the market was going to be in the offseason.

 

There is still time to salvage it, but until they actually makes some moves and we see the team legitimately in a playoff spot… it is hard to give them any credit.

 

It took me 5 years to completely give up on Benning and I don’t think I will be as generous this time around.  If we aren’t solidly a top 3 team in our division in a couple years it will be a significant disappointment as it probably means tearing things down and starting again.

[Gawdzukes]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

Girard is smaller, but he isn't soft either and he's pretty solid defensively.

Exactly. In a landscape where it's super hard to find good D here is a very good player who would make our d significantly better with a good contract and age to boot. At least he's a significant upgrade in the skill department. 

[combover]

26 minutes ago, stawns said:

JB's plan was to have a solid team with Feeland, Sutter, Roussel, Beagle, Marky, Edler etc.  Sadly, it was sunk by injuries and he had to re-jig it into a rebuild, which he did decently well.

 

 

are people still trying to defend the disaster of the entire JB  era. 
Lol. 
Geez 

two top 6 picks busts!! 

6 /7 draft picks on the roster after 8 years of being terrible. 
1st rd picks traded for old dman with an a hit of a contract 

couldnt even achieve his lofty goal of mediocrity 

we are still filled with holes and have very few if any nhl ready prospects.

look at the names you mentioned lolololololol

am he was a terrible GM and had zero foresight or clue how to build a team 

want some proof 8 seasons of failures and excuses. 
people expect new managment to fix the disaster he left behind in 6 months lol. 
we can’t move because we are capped out and we cant add sweeteners for others to take the bad contracts because we can’t afford the damage that will do.

he did a great job of screwing this team up for a long time. thanks Jim 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spook007]

1 minute ago, Provost said:

Yep, they haven’t proven anything yet.  It is one big step forward that they have clearly articulated a plan… they just have to actually execute it.

 

They waffled last trade deadline when they said the team needed a bunch of work but didn’t make trades to clear cap.  The faint playoff run hopes didn’t justify the lack of moves.

 

As it stands now, that seems to have been a miscalculation of how tight the market was going to be in the offseason.

 

There is still time to salvage it, but until they actually makes some moves and we see the team legitimately in a playoff spot… it is hard to give them any credit.

 

It took me 5 years to completely give up on Benning and I don’t think I will be as generous this time around.  If we aren’t solidly a top 3 team in our division in a couple years it will be a significant disappointment as it probably means tearing things down and starting again.

Yes pretty much how I feel too... didn't give up on Benning, but I understand, why folks had enough... a bit like two steps forward and two steps back...

 

And I definitely agree, that I don't think, I'm gonna be happy if we are at the same position in 6 years (probably less) than we are now...

Hope to hell top see some improvement. A lot rests with Petey's continued development and Demko... 

[Slegr]

The more I see what the Flames are doing, the more I’d love to see the Canucks keep Miller.  He’s got that Kesler-esque mojo and is all about winning at all costs. It rubs off on the team. And sure, he gets whiney when things don’t go his way, and at times defensively suspect, but he’s a man’s man, wears his heart on his sleeve, and those are elements that are often seriously lacking on this team.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Slegr

[aGENT]

41 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

Lighten up the attitude.

Can't even read your stuff anymore because of it.

It is still August for a couple weeks and believe it or not, you might not be right about everything all the time.

Everybody can have a good time here without the belittling thanks.

 

I'll post how I like, thanks. Feel free not to read it or comment 

 

 

 

[stawns]

26 minutes ago, Provost said:

Yep, they haven’t proven anything yet.  It is one big step forward that they have clearly articulated a plan… they just have to actually execute it.

 

They waffled last trade deadline when they said the team needed a bunch of work but didn’t make trades to clear cap.  The faint playoff run hopes didn’t justify the lack of moves.

 

As it stands now, that seems to have been a miscalculation of how tight the market was going to be in the offseason.

 

There is still time to salvage it, but until they actually makes some moves and we see the team legitimately in a playoff spot… it is hard to give them any credit.

 

It took me 5 years to completely give up on Benning and I don’t think I will be as generous this time around.  If we aren’t solidly a top 3 team in our division in a couple years it will be a significant disappointment as it probably means tearing things down and starting again.

Agreed, they really fumbled the ball last tdl