[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[mll]

1 hour ago, rekker said:

I wonder of Minny takes a run at Miller. They are legit contenders this year, need a center. They are screwed cap wise after this year. Thing is they could trade for Miller now, then flip him this summer or next season to recoup assets after a possible playoff run this year. 

They could use a C3 to play between Fiala and Boldy.  Gaudreau works because he can cover for them defensively but ideally they bring in a solid 2-way C that can contribute a bit more offensively.  That's really the only spot to fill.  Their 2 top lines at this point look to be carved in stone - they've been so dominant since assembled.

 

Russo thinks that Guerin doesn't want to mess with chemistry and sees him only adding in case of injury.  The memory of the Hanzak trade and how it had their team implode is still apparently very much in their minds. 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by mll

[higgyfan]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Yeah ok then.

 

I don't want Miller traded because I don't think the return will be good enough.  That's it.  That's my stance.

 

I tried to give you more info about what I think, but it seems to confuse you.

 

I agree.  Some of the couch GMs are projecting some lovely trades, but who knows how it will pan out.  I think most fans would be disappointed if Miller brings back less than what fans have been declaring.

 

On another note, the one thing that will drive up Miller's value (aside from his incredible game) is desperation.  In Boston's game last night, Bergeron took a hit and fell awkwardly into the boards.  The team isn't reporting much, but it sounds like a concussion.  If  Patrice is out for a long while, JT would be an ideal player for them.

 

 

[MeanSeanBean]

36 minutes ago, rekker said:

The fly in the ointment is I think Minny wants Fiala as a big part of the deal. Fiala just seems redundant on the Canucks. Not what they need. Fiala may be a good fit with Philly however, and with Giroux, a center, on the move, that deal may make more sense for Minny.

I'm ok with Fiala being a part of the trade. We could use some more game changing skill on the left side. But I would be expecting a lot more then just that, still want one of those good D prospects and a 1st. Miller pulls a kings ransom or we stays a Canuck until next year.

[Screw]

Boston doesn't have the ability to make the deal with it for Vancouver.  imo

[higgyfan]

6 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

But just for arguments sake, do you agree that any 'reasonable' return (subject to each person's definition of reasonable, I'll admit), is better than the possibility of him walking away for nothing when he's UFA? 

With another year on his contract, I can't see that happening.  JR is a very experienced hockey man who will determine whether JT wants to re-sign in Vancouver or move on.  He isn't going to let such a valuable resource go to UFA.

[Nucker 67]

Just now, Screw said:

Boston doesn't have the ability to make the deal with it for Vancouver.  imo

Yeah, looking at BOS prospects, there really isn't much to get excited about actually. I'd much rather add Kakko, Chytil and Schneider. 

[DeNiro]

Just now, NUCKER67 said:

Yeah, looking at BOS prospects, there really isn't much to get excited about actually. I'd much rather add Kakko, Chytil and Schneider. 

I saw a proposal from a Boston fan that had Lysell as part of a deal for Garland.

 

Lysell is an interesting prospect but not close to a sure thing.

[MeanSeanBean]

3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I saw a proposal from a Boston fan that had Lysell as part of a deal for Garland.

 

Lysell is an interesting prospect but not close to a sure thing.

I could see him being part of a Garland trade. But trading for Miller is the next step up value wise. Imo, for us to trade him this year it needs to be an overpayment. I just don't know if they have the pieces that allow them to overpay. Lysell and a 1st moves the needle, but they don't have much past that.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Shayster007

[HKSR]

18 minutes ago, coryberg said:

Actualy shortly before those trades they absolutely tanked and were one pf the worst teams in the league...(hello tkatchuk!). The elc young guns like Stuzle and Norris? Sorry, those guys don't exist in that reality, they were acquired by retooling. 

 

By your logic the Canadiens should double down and hold on to all of their aging vets because after all shortly before now they were in the cup finals. They just need to keep going in that direction... easy peasy!

Umm... no... in 2016-17 they lost to the Pens in Game 7 of Round 3.  Then they had a bad 2017-18 due to major injuries (ie. Stone), and drafted Tkachuk.  2018-19, Stone was gone and so was Duchene. 

 

Montreal kinda did hold on.  Their vets are all there, but their franchise goaltender has been out for a long time. 

[smithers joe]

4 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Yeah, looking at BOS prospects, there really isn't much to get excited about actually. I'd much rather add Kakko, Chytil and Schneider. 

i'ld be happy with schneider and barron and a first. schneider to eventually play with hughes, barron as a 3rd line center. petey and bo as 1 and 2.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

Look... this is to @stawns @Gawdzukes and all the others I've been duelling with the past little bit about trading Miller.

 

If Miller is traded, and the offer is incredible, then I'm good with it.  When I say incredible, I mean:

 

Wild:  Boldy, Addison, Greenway

NYR:  Schneider, Laf/Kakko, 1st

BOS:  Lysell, Carlo, Debrusk, 1st

 

But if the returns are mediocre (ie. Lundkvist, Kravtsov, 2nd), then I'm totally against it.  Miller brings WAY too much to the roster to just lose him for a mediocre return.  It would be taking not just a step back, but several steps.  As Bieksa said, these guys are not that common. 

Well yeah that's what everyone's been advocating for all along. The only thing I'll add is what do we do if Miller let's management know he's gone for sure. Do we just take the best offer ... if it was Lundkvist, Kravtsov, 2nd I'd probably consider waiting until next year.

 

However what if the best offer is Schnieder, Kravtsov, 1st. Is that enough to get it done?

[HKSR]

20 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

I think any moves that develop the team forward is a huge win, yes. Would Florida be the team they are right now if they kept Trocheck? Who knows, it's very possible. It's also possible because of his cap hit and position on the lineup that they wouldn't be where they are right now. So yes, Florida moving off Trocheck was a huge win, because they are currently the best team in the entire league. Without reading Trocheck maybe they don't see the emergence of Duclair. Maybe they don't have the cap to trade for SR. Is the trade a win in a vacuum, no. Was the trade a win for the team in the long run? Being first in the league leads me to think so.

WAY too many IFs and MAYBEs in that statement.  By that logic, any trade the Lightning made in the past 10 years is a win because they won the Cup 2 years in a row. 

 

Sorry, I just don't see how Trocheck's trade is a huge win and was THE reason for the Panther's resurgence.  I'd say it has WAY more to do with guys like Huberdeau, Barkov, and  Verhaege elevating their games to another level... but more importantly, the huge impact their defence core is scoring at will as well lead by Ekblad and Weegar. 

[Nucker 67]

Allvin and his team have some really tough decisions on the direction this team is going.

 

JR said they want to clear cap space, build a young core and add prospects, but then also said they want to be a contender in 2 years. Is that possible? How the heck are they going to clear cap space and become a contender? 

 

Then they said they don't need to trade one of the top players. 

 

I don't think they can trade Miller if they plan on becoming  playoff team. I'm now thinking they'll re-sign him somehow. 

 

 

[HKSR]

Just now, Gawdzukes said:

Well yeah that's what everyone's been advocating for all along. The only thing I'll add is what do we do if Miller let's management know he's gone for sure. Do we just take the best offer ... if it was Lundkvist, Kravtsov, 2nd I'd probably consider waiting until next year.

 

However what if the best offer is Schnieder, Kravtsov, 1st. Is that enough to get it done?

If Miller's camp tells management he's gonna move on as a UFA, then we take the best package possible.  Ideally those conversations happen within the next 4 to 5 weeks.

 

However, if Miller's camp says he wants to stay, then find out a ballpark number ASAP and do the financial forecasting to see if it can work.  If it can, then keep him.  If the numbers simply won't work, then you find out what's the best package offered this TDL, and if not good enough, then I'd say wait until the offseason because a mediocre package likely won't change much in the offseason.

 

Bottomline is that Canucks management NEED to know what Miller wants ASAP.  Stay or go?  Stay?  Ok... how much?  That'll dictate everything.

[coryberg]

22 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

With another year on his contract, I can't see that happening.  JR is a very experienced hockey man who will determine whether JT wants to re-sign in Vancouver or move on.  He isn't going to let such a valuable resource go to UFA.

That's all fine and dandy but JT with 2 playoffs and a season plus under contract is worth way more than jt with less than a season and one cup run.

[coryberg]

15 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Umm... no... in 2016-17 they lost to the Pens in Game 7 of Round 3.  Then they had a bad 2017-18 due to major injuries (ie. Stone), and drafted Tkachuk.  2018-19, Stone was gone and so was Duchene. 

 

Montreal kinda did hold on.  Their vets are all there, but their franchise goaltender has been out for a long time. 

You just agreed with what I said. They absolutely tanked in 2017-18 and the drafted tkatchuk. At that point they tore it down... and rightfully so.

[Fanuck]

14 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

With another year on his contract, I can't see that happening.  JR is a very experienced hockey man who will determine whether JT wants to re-sign in Vancouver or move on.  He isn't going to let such a valuable resource go to UFA.

That's actually what worries me.  I have no doubt that Miller would be capable of playing up to any contract he signs for a few years - but after that he'll likely begin to decline and we'll be left with an aging/declining player with a 'hefty' contract with clauses.  Also, it doesn't fit with what JR has been saying lately that he wants to creat cap-space.  Signing an older player to a large contract (term/dollar) doesn't fit with 'creating cap space' even though some have pointed out that cap-space can be created by trading 'second/third tier' players - they don't give you the return upon which you can add to the core of a contending team imo. 

 

In my view, Miller's value is at an all time high because of:

a.  his on-ice performance is at a career peak right now.

b.  he has term on his contract at a great value for what he brings to any club - this type of cost-controlled contract is hard to find these days for a contending team

c.  he's a known quantity as far as how he played in the playoffs in 2020 - that more/less recent success surely is alluring to other GM's. 

d.  he's a perfect fit at the moment for several clubs who are legit contenders and are seeking exactly what Miller brings to the rink every night - this may/may not be the case next year. 

 

These factors in my view make this the perfect time to 'sell high' on Miller.  Next year, if nothing else changes, there will be the 'rental' factor hanging over any GM trying to pursue him and that alone brings the cost down. 

 

I'm not saying Miller isn't a good player, he's great in fact.  Just that I don't see him as a long-term fit with this club and if Allvin does his due diligence he could make a move with Miller to set the Canucks up for the next decade.

 

I also have my reservations about JR's judgment:

https://thehockeywriters.com/penguins-rutherford-poor-decision-making-effects/

[coryberg]

22 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I saw a proposal from a Boston fan that had Lysell as part of a deal for Garland.

 

Lysell is an interesting prospect but not close to a sure thing.

Garland would be a fan favorite instantly there. Not only his tenacious game but the fact that he was born 20 minutes outside of Boston and was a junior bruin as a kid. Would be a great story for them.

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, coryberg said:

You just agreed with what I said. They absolutely tanked in 2017-18 and the drafted tkatchuk. At that point they tore it down... and rightfully so.

Huh?  They didn't tank on purpose by trading everyone away lol.  Even so, they traded everyone away just after that, and where did that get them?  Instead of trying to improve on the roster that came within a game of the Stanley Cup finals, they abandoned it all and are still rebuilding to this day.

[higgyfan]

10 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

That's actually what worries me.  I have no doubt that Miller would be capable of playing up to any contract he signs for a few years - but after that he'll likely begin to decline and we'll be left with an aging/declining player with a 'hefty' contract with clauses.  Also, it doesn't fit with what JR has been saying lately that he wants to creat cap-space.  Signing an older player to a large contract (term/dollar) doesn't fit with 'creating cap space' even though some have pointed out that cap-space can be created by trading 'second/third tier' players - they don't give you the return upon which you can add to the core of a contending team imo. 

 

In my view, Miller's value is at an all time high because of:

a.  his on-ice performance is at a career peak right now.

b.  he has term on his contract at a great value for what he brings to any club - this type of cost-controlled contract is hard to find these days for a contending team

c.  he's a known quantity as far as how he played in the playoffs in 2020 - that more/less recent success surely is alluring to other GM's. 

d.  he's a perfect fit at the moment for several clubs who are legit contenders and are seeking exactly what Miller brings to the rink every night - this may/may not be the case next year. 

 

These factors in my view make this the perfect time to 'sell high' on Miller.  Next year, if nothing else changes, there will be the 'rental' factor hanging over any GM trying to pursue him and that alone brings the cost down. 

 

I'm not saying Miller isn't a good player, he's great in fact.  Just that I don't see him as a long-term fit with this club and if Allvin does his due diligence he could make a move with Miller to set the Canucks up for the next decade.

 

I also have my reservations about JR's judgment:

https://thehockeywriters.com/penguins-rutherford-poor-decision-making-effects/

Unless the return is up to your expectations, you (and almost everyone else) will be very disappointed.