rekker Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Let's say there isn't a dressing room issue involving Miller. Let's say its the garbage coach. What message do you send to the rest of the team by trading one of top players and hardest worker? Trade Miller while his stock is high, and fire the lame arss coach as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, stawns said: I do think, regardless of any dressing room issues, they'd be moving him at some point, just not now. If he is, indeed, on the block now, then it's pretty clear there's a problem. i think the optics of that will be awful for a lot of the fan base. Especially if Green avoids the chopping block. Edited November 23, 2021 by bishopshodan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just now, rekker said: Yes. Also, if the power struggle rumours in the room are true, I'd sooner they do good by Bo and make sure everyone knows it's his team. Hopefully it paves the road to Bo's re-signing. I can't imagine this team without Bo. The second you don't have a Bo Horvat on your team you are looking for one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 minute ago, stawns said: I would be moving Brock, for sure, but not Bo. No way, no how. Regardless of what anyone thinks of him, I would say most realize JT is a JHT guy first and a team guy second. I disagree that most would think that. He seems like a passionate team player to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, bishopshodan said: i think the optics of that will be awful for a lot of the fan base. Especially if Green avoids the chopping block. I look at it from the other side. JT's value is high and if the return is good, it may just the hell turn things around. Oh ya, fire the coach too. Edited November 24, 2021 by rekker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just now, rekker said: I look at it from the other side. JT's value is high and if the return is good, it may just hell turn things around. Oh ya, fire the coach too. I see your point. If his stock is high, it means he is currently a good player. If I'm on the Nucks, I start thinking....'I hope I don't one day get traded for leading the team in points and working my ass off' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, rekker said: I look at it from the other side. JT's value is high and if the return is good, it may just hell turn things around. Oh ya, fire the coach too. I would probably get rid of Green as well if there's that big of a dressing room issue. Though, that would depend on how the rest of the team felt about him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Let's say there isn't a dressing room issue involving Miller. Let's say its the garbage coach. What message do you send to the rest of the team by trading one of top players and hardest worker? There are many ways it could be taken. It could be taken as management saying they don't believe this season's version of the Canucks is good enough and that changes need to be made. Both of which are true. It could be taken as a lack of belief in this year's group, or this collection of players, which given the results isn't unwarranted. It could be taken as them saying they're looking to continue getting younger and that we're further away from competing than originally thought, which is probably true. It could be them saying we need to move out pieces to improve other areas of the team, which could absolutely be true depending on the return. Particularly if we're getting a young high end D back. It could be that there is something going on in the locker room and that it contributes to someone like Miller being moved out. It could be taking from what was supposed to be our strength, our forward depth, to upgrade perceived weaknesses. Our defense and bottom six. If we get a legit 3c that can help stabilize the forward group as part of a package that's still trying to help the team be competitive. We haven't been good enough, if players get pissed because someone's moved out due to where the team is at they can point fingers at themselves, coaching, management, and each other. Hockey is a results driven business, every single guy in that locker room knows that. Edited November 23, 2021 by Coconuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, stawns said: I would be moving Brock, for sure, but not Bo. No way, no how. Regardless of what anyone thinks of him, I would say most realize JT is a JHT guy first and a team guy second. I’d say Green appreciates Millers swagger over players that have none. Miller plays like murder hornets are chasing him, Bo and Brock play like there’s hemorrhoid issues. I look at Shane Doan as the type of player anyone would want to captain there club. I see that swagger in Miller. i don’t see it in others who we should. OEL has it, Motte has it, Garland, Lammikko, Podz, Dickinson, EP, Demko, there are more.. but Bock and Bo have become emotionless. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just now, bishopshodan said: I see your point. If his stock is high, it means he is currently a good player. If I'm on the Nucks, I start thinking....'I hope I don't one day get traded for leading the team in points and working my ass off' For sure, but what if this good player is a grump? What if this good player is causing a divide? If the rumours are true, it tells the room to start pulling in the same direction. Look, I love Miller, love his "hate loosing attitude". I've said many times he reminds me of Kesler, and that's a compliment. But we aren't making the playoffs and I would bet the farm JT would never re-sign here after next season. Selling while his stock is high makes sense. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Coconuts said: There are many ways it could be taken. It could be taken as management saying they don't believe this season's version of the Canucks is good enough and that changes need to be made. Both of which are true. It could be taken as them saying they're looking to continue getting younger and that we're further away from competing than originally thought, which is probably true. It could be them saying we need to move out pieces to improve other areas of the team, which could absolutely be true depending on the return. Particularly if we're getting a young high end D back. It could be that there is something going on in the locker room and that it contributes to someone like Miller being moved out. It could be taking from what was supposed to be our strength, our forward depth, to upgrade perceived weaknesses. Our defense and bottom six. If we get a legit 3c that can help stabilize the forward group as part of a package that's still trying to help the team be competitive. We haven't been good enough, if players get pissed because someone's moved out due to where the team is at they can point fingers at themselves, coaching, management, and each other. Hockey is a results driven business, every single guy in that locker room knows that. When what seems like most of the fan base is screaming for a coach change. I dont see trading our top player as good optics. None of us know what is going on in reality, but Miller has done his job this year. Strange to me that he is the topic of trade talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, rekker said: Yes. Also, if the power struggle rumours in the room are true, I'd sooner they do good by Bo and make sure everyone knows it's his team. Hopefully it paves the road to Bo's re-signing. I can't imagine this team without Bo. The second you don't have a Bo Horvat on your team you are looking for one. Even if there's nothing to the power struggle rumours, I'd still keep Bo over Miller. Bo is a legit #2c, and would be a #1c for some teams, the problem with moving Bo is you've got to replace him and we've got nobody in our system capable of doing that. You move Bo and you're probably looking to replace him via trade or UFA, which likely results in you paying more via UFA dollars or assets than it'd probably cost to retain him in the first place. I view Miller as more of a winger, despite his having player center this season. We have wingers, and wingers are easier to find and acquire than legitimate centers who can produce and win faceoffs. Not only that, he's our captain. Teams don't trade captains very often. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 20 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: You think Green is the right coach to get the most out of Greening? Lol he will neuter him. never said that. I meant our next coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, stawns said: I would probably get rid of Green as well if there's that big of a dressing room issue. Though, that would depend on how the rest of the team felt about him For sure. I think a veteran coach who the players respected wouldn't of let it get to this point. This team needs a veteran coach soooo bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just now, JM_ said: never said that. I meant our next coach. We won’t have a next coach until Aquilini fires Benning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just now, wallstreetamigo said: We won’t have a next coach until Aquilini fires Benning. tbh I don't know that we can discount anything right now. I suspect Aqua would be more open to a new coach than a clean sweep. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, rekker said: For sure, but what if this good player is a grump? What if this good player is causing a divide? If the rumours are true, it tells the room to start pulling in the same direction. Look, I love Miller, love his "hate loosing attitude". I've said many times he reminds me of Kesler, and that's a compliment. But we aren't making the playoffs and I would bet the farm JT would never re-sign here after next season. Selling while his stock is high makes sense. Oh maybe. I guess i should enjoy having a player like him on the Canucks while it lasts. I had waited soo long. "Hate losing' is right, wish more would show some passion. Hope it's not Garland next. We lose Miller and we get just that bit softer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 29 minutes ago, Coconuts said: I understand fans getting attached to players, I do too, but some fans get attached to the notion that you can somehow keep the band together. Sports don't work that way, it very rarely happens. Whether the price of losing or the price of winning, players are always moving. Hell, Miller coming here was his second time being traded. Sentimentally holding on to assets until they depreciate doesn't benefit the organization. Obviously you've got to weigh the pros and cons, and there are many things to consider when it comes to trades, but on some level we need to be prepared to pull the trigger on tough decisions. Both you and @Provost make excellent points here. To Provost's first... the team is like a bad day-trader. In the past when they've sold, the stock has risen and they sold early. Now when they hold, the stock dwindles in value over time but they continue bag holding for fear of missing out. And to your point here, it strikes me that the best managers are able to pull the trigger on deals at the right moments, sometimes the toughest moments, and those are usually the moments that take the biggest cajones. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, SilentSam said: I’d say Green appreciates Millers swagger over players that have none. Miller plays like murder hornets are chasing him, Bo and Brock play like there’s hemorrhoid issues. I look at Shane Doan as the type of player anyone would want to captain there club. I see that swagger in Miller. i don’t see it in others who we should. OEL has it, Motte has it, Garland, Lammikko, Podz, Dickinson, EP, Demko, there are more.. but Bock and Bo have become emotionless. I agree to a point. I see Miller like you've described IF the team is winning. Otherwise I think he may be a distraction and a bit of a downer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Even if there's nothing to the power struggle rumours, I'd still keep Bo over Miller. Bo is a legit #2c, and would be a #1c for some teams, the problem with moving Bo is you've got to replace him and we've got nobody in our system capable of doing that. You move Bo and you're probably looking to replace him via trade or UFA, which likely results in you paying more via UFA dollars or assets than it'd probably cost to retain him in the first place. I view Miller as more of a winger, despite his having player center this season. We have wingers, and wingers are easier to find and acquire than legitimate centers who can produce and win faceoffs. Not only that, he's our captain. Teams don't trade captains very often. I think Miller has similar FO% as Bo and is beating him in every other stat by a bit. I love Bo though, don't what him gone either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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