Alflives Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, Warhippy said: In the first round we face one of the following Edmonton Colorado St Louis Nashville Los Angeles Vegas Who are we beating there with this EXACT same roster (barring Mikheyev and Lazar) over 7 games? In the second round we face one of Vegas Colorado St Louis Who are we beating? Again, this is the EXACT same group that played bubble hockey during covid. This group HAS experience. Keeping Miller and watching him walk for nothing just to get our arses pasted in 4-6 games in the first round against teams with quality D-cores, bonafide veteran stars and youth is criminal mismanagement and EXACTLY what we've done for over a decade. This is part of the 5 main reasons we have zero depth/assets. Poor trading of high picks (The Gillis/Benning special 2nd rounder) Poor drafting of assets based off of potential (Schroeder was great in the World Juniors!) Zero drafting and development in to critical areas of need (4 count em 4 RHD drafted since 2012/2013) Watching assets leave for nothing or being handcuffed by NTC/NMCs (Recent examples: Tanev, Markstrom, Kesler, Mitchell) Zero development since the Bieksa/Kesler/Burrows crew back between 2003-2007 This has lead directly to the issues of depth, lack of assets for trade, lack of quality ELCs to cover cap issues and us bargaining from positions of weakness in most trades. Experience as a justification for allowing one of our best assets since Bertuzzi is utter crap, Colorado just won the cup with most of its core having never gotten past the 2nd round and Edmonton just went to the western finals with a young team. If he has not been retained to a quality deal he has to go In a seven games series we are good enough to beat any team because we have (by far in most cases) the better goalie, Demko. But we would definitely have the lesser team, and we would need Double Bubble Demko to win against most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: lol this is what I'm talking about. I wonder how many other fans or NHL pundits would call us a top 5 NHL team like some of the folks here so desperately want to believe. We haven't even addressed our major areas of concern besides bottom 6 depth. We failed down the stretch last year. This team played like meth addicts on the stolen bike 500 for 4.5 months and when the games REALLY mattered we couldn't beat Detroit, Buffalo, New Jersey, Minnesota, Winnipeg, Vegas, Anaheim or San Jose. When the games didn't matter we sorta played up to Colorado, Edmonton, Nashville etc. We did that on the backs of record seasons for Hughes, Pettersson, Horvat and Miller not even mentioning Demko and his ridiculous play EXACT same top 6. EXACT same D core. Lazar and Mikheyev don't make us somehow magically a top 10 team in the league. Yet somehow we're beating the west with a stronger Edmonton? Same Avalanche? Stronger St Louis team? "experience" to me is like when my clients tell me I should do the job for exposure. It doesn't pay the bills and puts me in a hole 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Warhippy said: In the first round we face one of the following Edmonton Colorado St Louis Nashville Los Angeles Vegas Who are we beating there with this EXACT same roster (barring Mikheyev and Lazar) over 7 games? In the second round we face one of Vegas Colorado St Louis Who are we beating? Again, this is the EXACT same group that played bubble hockey during covid. This group HAS experience. Keeping Miller and watching him walk for nothing just to get our arses pasted in 4-6 games in the first round against teams with quality D-cores, bonafide veteran stars and youth is criminal mismanagement and EXACTLY what we've done for over a decade. This is part of the 5 main reasons we have zero depth/assets. Poor trading of high picks (The Gillis/Benning special 2nd rounder) Poor drafting of assets based off of potential (Schroeder was great in the World Juniors!) Zero drafting and development in to critical areas of need (4 count em 4 RHD drafted since 2012/2013) Watching assets leave for nothing or being handcuffed by NTC/NMCs (Recent examples: Tanev, Markstrom, Kesler, Mitchell) Zero development since the Bieksa/Kesler/Burrows crew back between 2003-2007 This has lead directly to the issues of depth, lack of assets for trade, lack of quality ELCs to cover cap issues and us bargaining from positions of weakness in most trades. Experience as a justification for allowing one of our best assets since Bertuzzi is utter crap, Colorado just won the cup with most of its core having never gotten past the 2nd round and Edmonton just went to the western finals with a young team. If he has not been retained to a quality deal he has to go How did Edmonton get to the 3rd round? Oh yeah luck is a thing. We got tons of it in the bubble. Too much living in the past that can't be changed here. We are 11 years removed from a final. On average outside of the very small handful of dynasty teams... all of which are either tax friendly or original 6 team funny enough... that's a lot better than most other franchises. In the 11 years since we have drafted the superstar 1c, 1D, 1G. Yeah we botched having rookies in charge and created next to nothing in terms of depth/roll players but we got massive hits where it matters most. As we saw literally the second they got rid of rookies and brought in experience in the office and behind the bench, We magically turned into a top 16 team. Aka playoff team. I know people just want to rebuild forever... but sooner or later you need to gain playoff experience. You never know once your in. We WONT win much I'm sure for 2 years till our 20+mill of wasted cap falls off the roster for free. Still worth it for the young core to make it in and see what they got. Moving forward is good for peoples health 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: Being hypothetical, let's say McDavid, Makar and MacKinnon are injured...Canucks are lookin' pretty good So if Makar, McDavid, Mackinnon, Draisatl, Parayko and O'Reilly are all out drinking the night before and get in to an accident with a truck load of puppies...we have a chance to win a few games 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 15 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: lol this is what I'm talking about. I wonder how many other fans or NHL pundits would call us a top 5 NHL team like some of the folks here so desperately want to believe. We haven't even addressed our major areas of concern besides bottom 6 depth. you have to be top 5 in the regular season to win the cup? uh oh, some teams are going to have to give their rings back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Warhippy Posted July 19, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Mustard Tiger said: How did Edmonton get to the 3rd round? Oh yeah luck is a thing. We got tons of it in the bubble. Too much living in the past that can't be changed here. We are 11 years removed from a final. On average outside of the very small handful of dynasty teams... all of which are either tax friendly or original 6 team funny enough... that's a lot better than most other franchises. In the 11 years since we have drafted the superstar 1c, 1D, 1G. Yeah we botched having rookies in charge and created next to nothing in terms of depth/roll players but we got massive hits where it matters most. As we saw literally the second they got rid of rookies and brought in experience in the office and behind the bench, We magically turned into a top 16 team. Aka playoff team. I know people just want to rebuild forever... but sooner or later you need to gain playoff experience. You never know once your in. We WONT win much I'm sure for 2 years till our 20+mill of wasted cap falls off the roster for free. Still worth it for the young core to make it in and see what they got. Moving forward is good for peoples health You're delusional mate Our 1c vs McDavid/Mackinnon/Draisatl Our 1d vs Makar, Parayko, Byram Our goalie is our strong point. You're suggesting we allow Miller to walk away for literally nothing because "experience" and in 2 years we'll have cap space. So in essence you're suggesting we rebuild in 2 years because we have a chance to make the playoffs this year. Again, criminal mismanagement. In 2 years we're STILL going to have the exact same issues with depth as we have now, in 2 years we MAY have a solid prospect we can pin our hopes and dreams on. Most likely in 2 years we are still complaining about no RHD, Miller is gone and we haven't filled his position since he lef,t Myers is now gone and we're done one more RHD, we still have no prospects and teams like Jersey and the Sabres are on the upward swing while Anaheim and Los Angeles are enjoying the fruits of turning leaving assets in to youth and picks that paid off. Sorry bud, I'm sick of 50+ years of "exposure" it's time to make actual changes 2 2 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JM_ Posted July 19, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Warhippy said: You're delusional mate can you do this without this kind of comment? why degrade this into personal attacks, people are allowed to have an opinion. 2 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Our 1c vs McDavid/Mackinnon/Draisatl Our 1d vs Makar, Parayko, Byram Our goalie is our strong point. You're suggesting we allow Miller to walk away for literally nothing because "experience" and in 2 years we'll have cap space. So in essence you're suggesting we rebuild in 2 years because we have a chance to make the playoffs this year. Again, criminal mismanagement. In 2 years we're STILL going to have the exact same issues with depth as we have now, in 2 years we MAY have a solid prospect we can pin our hopes and dreams on. Most likely in 2 years we are still complaining about no RHD, Miller is gone and we haven't filled his position since he lef,t Myers is now gone and we're done one more RHD, we still have no prospects and teams like Jersey and the Sabres are on the upward swing while Anaheim and Los Angeles are enjoying the fruits of turning leaving assets in to youth and picks that paid off. Sorry bud, I'm sick of 50+ years of "exposure" it's time to make actual changes you're got too many things wrapped into your argument. 50 years? how does something that happened in 1970 matter to todays line up? Lets see what this group can do with the additions, and they are good additions, and a proper coaching staff before we write it all off. 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said: How did Edmonton get to the 3rd round? Oh yeah luck is a thing. We got tons of it in the bubble. Too much living in the past that can't be changed here. We are 11 years removed from a final. On average outside of the very small handful of dynasty teams... all of which are either tax friendly or original 6 team funny enough... that's a lot better than most other franchises. In the 11 years since we have drafted the superstar 1c, 1D, 1G. Yeah we botched having rookies in charge and created next to nothing in terms of depth/roll players but we got massive hits where it matters most. As we saw literally the second they got rid of rookies and brought in experience in the office and behind the bench, We magically turned into a top 16 team. Aka playoff team. I know people just want to rebuild forever... but sooner or later you need to gain playoff experience. You never know once your in. We WONT win much I'm sure for 2 years till our 20+mill of wasted cap falls off the roster for free. Still worth it for the young core to make it in and see what they got. Moving forward is good for peoples health This team doesn't need playoff experience, first and foremost it needs to get it's $&!# together and start making the good decisions @Warhippy referred to. Then comes playoffs after we've addressed the critical issues staring us in the face. Shortcuts shortcuts shortcuts ... I'm sick of them they never work. That's like saying the Ducks or Arizona need playoff experience. No they don't they need to keep building up their teams so they can compete which is what they're doing. Edited July 19, 2022 by Gawdzukes 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 10 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said: How did Edmonton get to the 3rd round? They had a player putting up historic numbers and litterally dragging their team through playoff rounds. We have some fantastic talent on this team, but we have no one even close to a McDavid. Hell, it would be hard to even argue we have a Draisaitl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliboy Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 minute ago, JM_ said: can you do this without this kind of comment? why degrade this into personal attacks, people are allowed to have an opinion. you're got too many things wrapped into your argument. 50 years? how does something that happened in 1970 matter to todays line up? Lets see what this group can do with the additions, and they are good additions, and a proper coaching staff before we write it all off. Agree! There's no guarantee a different path will yield a cup, give this group a chance, but either sign or trade Miller now, one or the other. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Shayster007 said: They had a player putting up historic numbers and litterally dragging their team through playoff rounds. We have some fantastic talent on this team, but we have no one even close to a McDavid. Hell, it would be hard to even argue we have a Draisaitl. how many times do we need to see Edmonton put down by more teams with more complete lines? sure McBaby is a great F, its not enough. Personally I want to see a team that is built for the playoffs, not the regular season. I don't care if we're 16th as long as we're a very tough out in the post season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Warhippy said: You're delusional mate Our 1c vs McDavid/Mackinnon/Draisatl Our 1d vs Makar, Parayko, Byram Our goalie is our strong point. You're suggesting we allow Miller to walk away for literally nothing because "experience" and in 2 years we'll have cap space. So in essence you're suggesting we rebuild in 2 years because we have a chance to make the playoffs this year. Again, criminal mismanagement. In 2 years we're STILL going to have the exact same issues with depth as we have now, in 2 years we MAY have a solid prospect we can pin our hopes and dreams on. Most likely in 2 years we are still complaining about no RHD, Miller is gone and we haven't filled his position since he lef,t Myers is now gone and we're done one more RHD, we still have no prospects and teams like Jersey and the Sabres are on the upward swing while Anaheim and Los Angeles are enjoying the fruits of turning leaving assets in to youth and picks that paid off. Sorry bud, I'm sick of 50+ years of "exposure" it's time to make actual changes What makes your personal opinion and frustration have more validation? I don't care that your an old fan who knows nothing but our pathetic history. Go ask the players what they want more after an 15+ year grind get to the NHL. Sit and watch their peers play for the championship, And sit and read up and all the cool new magic beans? Lol. I prefer Miller traded anyways, that's always been my stance. We can trade him and make the playoffs in the same season. Acting like everything will go right for the rest of our division yet magically only we will fall on our face is not realistic. 5 months is most the season, that's not a small sample size. All we have done is add to the team that was a top 16 team for 5 months. We are closer to that side of the spectrum than rebuilding. It's going to take years of consistent playoff runs before we become a contender. It's not a over night process. Your president tries to explain this to all the panicky polys every interview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukini Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Let him walk. Miller for 5 years at anything north of 7 is more of a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 15 minutes ago, Warhippy said: So if Makar, McDavid, Mackinnon, Draisatl, Parayko and O'Reilly are all out drinking the night before and get in to an accident with a truck load of puppies...we have a chance to win a few games I’ve seen truck loads of puppies at the Roxy over the years , Just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 minute ago, JM_ said: how many times do we need to see Edmonton put down by more teams with more complete lines? sure McBaby is a great F, its not enough. Personally I want to see a team that is built for the playoffs, not the regular season. I don't care if we're 16th as long as we're a very tough out in the post season. Sure, I completely agree. But nothing about our defense currently indicates that's a thing. For us to win a cup as currently constructed we would be expecting to our score out opponents and hope Demko steals games. Outscoring their opponent is how Edmonton and Toronto are trying to win. We don't have A McDavid or a Mathews to construct a team that way (nor does it work anyways). There is a reason why they say defense wins championships, and looking at the two teams in the finals this year backs that up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, Shayster007 said: They had a player putting up historic numbers and litterally dragging their team through playoff rounds. We have some fantastic talent on this team, but we have no one even close to a McDavid. Hell, it would be hard to even argue we have a Draisaitl. Because they played backup goalies and a lock room issue filled flames team haha. Also there is like 3 teams out of 32 who have that level guy. Edm, col and Tampa. It's kinda rare. Our guys are a bracket below. The elite stars with superstar potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, JM_ said: you have to be top 5 in the regular season to win the cup? uh oh, some teams are going to have to give their rings back. In the last 15 years, the teams winning the cup not being a "top 5 team" in the league are as follows 2019: St Louis (12th in league play) 2015: Chicago (6th OA in league play) 2014: Los Angeles (10th in league play) 2012: Los Angeles (13th in league play) 2011: Boston (7th in league play) 2009: Pittsburgh (8th in league play) As you see, in the last 15 years only 6 teams have won the cup while not being a top 5 team in the league. But even then; only 3 of those teams were not even top 10 teams; with those being LA x2 and St Louis, while the others were decidedly top 10 in the league bar none. Respectfully, the Canucks are none of these teams 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sell.the.team Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Think we need to get more open to the idea of Miller walking in FA. It is not the worst thing in the world to just have $5.25 of cap come off the books. I have a hard time believing we will get a better deal than what NYR were offering last TDL. Hopefully we are a playoff team next year and Miller can at least leave a lasting impression on the squad as to how the game is meant to be played. I have a hard time believing we will trade him if we are in a playoff position. Maybe if the season is a smashing success, Miller will be more inclined to sign a mutually beneficial deal in Vancouver. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 11 minutes ago, JM_ said: can you do this without this kind of comment? why degrade this into personal attacks, people are allowed to have an opinion. you're got too many things wrapped into your argument. 50 years? how does something that happened in 1970 matter to todays line up? Lets see what this group can do with the additions, and they are good additions, and a proper coaching staff before we write it all off. HA, not a chance. When someones position is delusional I will tell them so. You can stow your feelings on this argument because you won't change my mind and if you don't like it by all means scroll on by because it won't change the facts or my stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Just now, Warhippy said: HA, not a chance. When someones position is delusional I will tell them so. You can stow your feelings on this argument because you won't change my mind and if you don't like it by all means scroll on by because it won't change the facts or my stance. stow it yourself. It just brings your argument down to a rant, if thats your goal congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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