I Wont Sell The Team Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 No moves before new GM in place. Let them take stock of what's in the team and then pull the trigger if needed. Ownership has to pony up the dollars because you pay peanuts you get monkeys. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 Time to start a new thread: 2. Juicy trade proposal floated out by Nick Kypreos this week. If the floundering Vancouver Canucks (6-12-2) are willing to surrender to a reset and wish to maximize a return, how many contenders would be lining up offers for captain Bo Horvat? The responsible two-way centre has two potential playoff runs on a contract that carries a friendly $5.5-million cap hit, and the rental market up the middle of the ice should be incredibly thin this season. When his deal expires in 2023, Horvat will be 28 years old and searching for an estimated seven years near $7 million per season. Will a long-term commitment to Horvat at that point align with a legitimate contention window for Vancouver? If not, it’s not so crazy to think this winter could be the best time to move on. What else does the club have to offer as a trade chip? Tyler Motte? Brad Hunt? Jaroslav Halak? Brandon Sutter? Compared to a Horvat blockbuster, those returns wouldn’t be in the same ballpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 22 minutes ago, SilentSam said: What else does the club have to offer as a trade chip? Every single player, depending on return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 16 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: Pettersson and Boeser are still legitimate 1st line talents. They just aren’t good dump and chase players. Get real coaches that can coach a puck possession/puck support style and they will turn things around I think. Here are the Canucks' problems in three points: 1. Opposing teams pressure the defence in their own zone until they cough up the puck. The forwards are of little use because they are coached to cover the point men. Result: Canucks are hemmed in for a minute and a half to two minutes, whereupon the forwards change without getting the puck out and the dmen are stuck out there. 2. When the Canucks DO have the puck, they invariably shoot it in deep and chase. Rarely do they come up with the puck, whereupon the opposing team comes up the ice, dumps the puck and pressures the defence. Result: Team almost always gives up possession of the puck. 3. See Point one. It's like an infinite loop. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 8 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said: Here are the Canucks' problems in three points: 1. Opposing teams pressure the defence in their own zone until they cough up the puck. The forwards are of little use because they are coached to cover the point men. Result: Canucks are hemmed in for a minute and a half to two minutes, whereupon the forwards change without getting the puck out and the dmen are stuck out there. 2. When the Canucks DO have the puck, they invariably shoot it in deep and chase. Rarely do they come up with the puck, whereupon the opposing team comes up the ice, dumps the puck and pressures the defence. Result: Team almost always gives up possession of the puck. 3. See Point one. It's like an infinite loop. Essentially they are the exact opposite of a puck possession and puck support style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 18 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: Pettersson and Boeser are still legitimate 1st line talents. They just aren’t good dump and chase players. Get real coaches that can coach a puck possession/puck support style and they will turn things around I think. The problems with this team are below average coaching and a lame duck GM who still thinks the coaches are great. This is a really good point but hasn't Green been utilizing "dump and chase" throughout his entire tenure here? If so, then why would Petey and Brock completely struggle this year and not other years? (i.e. Boeser was really good last year; Petey was terrific before last season and even last season, started to come around before his injury). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Curmudgeon said: Here are the Canucks' problems in three points: 1. Opposing teams pressure the defence in their own zone until they cough up the puck. The forwards are of little use because they are coached to cover the point men. Result: Canucks are hemmed in for a minute and a half to two minutes, whereupon the forwards change without getting the puck out and the dmen are stuck out there. 2. When the Canucks DO have the puck, they invariably shoot it in deep and chase. Rarely do they come up with the puck, whereupon the opposing team comes up the ice, dumps the puck and pressures the defence. Result: Team almost always gives up possession of the puck. 3. See Point one. It's like an infinite loop. Great post. The question however, is if this system was implemented due to Green feeling that our players are not talented enough (or geared) towards playing a puck possession style, or if Green is simply misguided in his approach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 2 hours ago, SilentSam said: Time to start a new thread: 2. Juicy trade proposal floated out by Nick Kypreos this week. If the floundering Vancouver Canucks (6-12-2) are willing to surrender to a reset and wish to maximize a return, how many contenders would be lining up offers for captain Bo Horvat? The responsible two-way centre has two potential playoff runs on a contract that carries a friendly $5.5-million cap hit, and the rental market up the middle of the ice should be incredibly thin this season. When his deal expires in 2023, Horvat will be 28 years old and searching for an estimated seven years near $7 million per season. Will a long-term commitment to Horvat at that point align with a legitimate contention window for Vancouver? If not, it’s not so crazy to think this winter could be the best time to move on. What else does the club have to offer as a trade chip? Tyler Motte? Brad Hunt? Jaroslav Halak? Brandon Sutter? Compared to a Horvat blockbuster, those returns wouldn’t be in the same ballpark. Kypreos is another water head and $&!#head. Obviously, Horvat and Miller would fetch a kings ransom, but now is not the time to trade them. Trade them at the deadline if and when the Canucks are out of contention. Trading our pieces with value right now would lead to all/most players completely going through the motions for the rest of the season and that is terrible for culture. Continue working as hard as you can up until the deadline, and then make appropriate decisions at the trade deadline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Patel Bure said: Kypreos is another water head and $&!#head. Obviously, Horvat and Miller would fetch a kings ransom, but now is not the time to trade them. Trade them at the deadline if and when the Canucks are out of contention. Trading our pieces with value right now would lead to all/most players completely going through the motions for the rest of the season and that is terrible for culture. Continue working as hard as you can up until the deadline, and then make appropriate decisions at the trade deadline. This team has a history of waiting until the deadline, and thinking they will get a kings ransom. that has not done us well. The appropriate decisions are sometimes not available at that time because everyone else has made their move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 Just now, SilentSam said: This team has a history of waiting until the deadline, and thinking they will get a kings ransom. that has not done us well. The appropriate decisions are sometimes not available at that time because everyone else has made their move. One thing we know about Jim is he's very reactive when it comes to player deals. I wouldn't expect anything being done well ahead of the TDL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 Huge mistake to trade any of the young core. And really no point at this time in the season we won’t be in the POs so no need to be panic trading anyone. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 NYI Horvat Poolman VAN Barzal Dobson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Patel Bure said: Great post. The question however, is if this system was implemented due to Green feeling that our players are not talented enough (or geared) towards playing a puck possession style, or if Green is simply misguided in his approach? Yes, but the point is that the team is NOT playing a puck possession game because of a team-wide practice of dumping and chasing. And although I'm mostly confused by analytics charts and graphs and number, numbers, numbers, I'd really like to see how the Canucks rank across the league in controlled offensive zone entries versus dumping it in and then failing to regain control of the puck. If the coaching staff has access to these numbers it might occur to them to change the frickin' game plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Me_ said: NYI Horvat Poolman VAN Barzal Dobson WHO is going to win a faceoff? horvat is the only Center that wins draws. half the issue is we spend to much time just trying to get possession. https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?category=faceoffs&season=2021 Edited November 28, 2021 by combover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 we have 2 centers who can win face offs, lets trade them away. who ever fixes this team has to first have a plan for the future. we all know what players, not playing well. don't trade the heart and soul of this team if your not getting similar players back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 hour ago, SilentSam said: This team has a history of waiting until the deadline, and thinking they will get a kings ransom. that has not done us well. The appropriate decisions are sometimes not available at that time because everyone else has made their move. Excellent point. My only concern with making moves too early is that it would indirectly encourage players to "mail it in" this season. Do we really want to run the risk of guys like Hoglander, Podkolzin, and other young guys mailing it in if we trade our players with value? I'm not sure...... I definitely understand your view though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 37 minutes ago, Me_ said: NYI Horvat Poolman VAN Barzal Dobson I can't see NYI agreeing to that. Barzal is worth more than Pettersson. Given NYI's struggles this season, and given that they aren't that far from being elite, *maybe* Dobson isn't quite as untouchable as originally thought? Something around Horvat or Miller for Dobson? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, combover said: WHO is going to win a faceoff? horvat is the only Center that wins draws. half the issue is we spend to much time just trying to get possession. https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?category=faceoffs&season=2021 But dude. Babcock MILLER - PETTERSSON - PODKOLZIN HÖGLANDER - BARZAL - BOESER PEARSON - DICKINSON - MOTTE DOWLING - ___________- CHIASSON OEL - DOBSON HUGHE - SCHENN BURROUGHS - MYERS DEMKO Personally, I love the HUGHES - SCHENN combination. Schenn is a tank. It allows Hughes to play his game. Edited November 28, 2021 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 31 minutes ago, smithers joe said: we have 2 centers who can win face offs, lets trade them away. who ever fixes this team has to first have a plan for the future. we all know what players, not playing well. don't trade the heart and soul of this team if your not getting similar players back. A fair point but at this juncture, I think we have to assume a few things: 1) This season is a lost cause regardless of whether we have guys that can win face offs or not. 2) Perhaps we can get a guy(s) that can win face-offs in the off-season (I hear Jay Beagle might be available :-p) 3) At this juncture, perhaps it would be in the Canucks' best interests to replenish the cupboards. If both Horvat and Miller can land you two elite prospects (Braden Schneider and Noah Dobson?) in total, combined with the Canucks tanking this season and landing one of Shane Wright or Conor Geekie, then I believe that we'd make out like gangbusters. Replace Green and Benning with Claude Julien and a new GM, and all of a sudden, UFA's on July 1st 2022 might actually consider Vancouver both a short term and long term viable opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 16 minutes ago, Patel Bure said: A fair point but at this juncture, I think we have to assume a few things: 1) This season is a lost cause regardless of whether we have guys that can win face offs or not. 2) Perhaps we can get a guy(s) that can win face-offs in the off-season (I hear Jay Beagle might be available :-p) 3) At this juncture, perhaps it would be in the Canucks' best interests to replenish the cupboards. If both Horvat and Miller can land you two elite prospects (Braden Schneider and Noah Dobson?) in total, combined with the Canucks tanking this season and landing one of Shane Wright or Conor Geekie, then I believe that we'd make out like gangbusters. Replace Green and Benning with Claude Julien and a new GM, and all of a sudden, UFA's on July 1st 2022 might actually consider Vancouver both a short term and long term viable opportunity. Buffalo style. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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