J-23 Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 On 12/8/2022 at 11:30 PM, bad alice french said: Bo Horvat is our captain. All this talk of him wanting out of Vancouver is completely ridiculous. There is no proof or credible source stating that this was ever in fact the case. Give him Miller’s contract with an adjustment on term. This sets the payroll scale for the team until Petey signs. Horvat isn’t going anywhere. This team is turning the corner. Boeser and Garland are gone and we build from there Turning a corner? Struggling to beat teams like the Habs, Yotes and San Jose isn’t turning a corner. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, N4ZZY said: except for maybe the Canucks.... Probably imo. 23 minutes ago, shiznak said: Boston and Carolina need to re-sign their own players, both have under 15 players signed for next season. In Boston’s case, I highly doubt they’d be willing to give up a roster who is signed long term (Carlo) for a player who might not re-sign with them. They also need to re-sign Pasta, which takes a good amount for their cap space for next season. Signing Horvat and Pasta, will give them very little wiggle room to fill up the rest of the roster. Neely also mentioned, if they aren’t able to re-sign Pasta, they’d be looking at a different direction. Possibly rebuilding. Carolina has Pacioretty’s and Staal’s off the books for next season, but in two years they will need to re-up a bunch of their core players. Necas, Aho, Pesce, and Tervo all need a new contracts. Plus, they don’t have a goalie signed after this season, which probably is going to be their top priority going into the summer. Washington will be a good fit, but what realistically do they have that we want? Their prospect pool is pretty bare as it is and as I mentioned, McMichaels and a late first would probably be the centrepiece; add in a cap dump like Eller. Is that a good enough package for Horvat? Like I said, if Horvat does get traded. Don’t be surprised how little the value coming back, is going to be. Fair point with Boston, they're going to need to get creative and find a way to make space for a center sooner or later though. Bergeron is irreplaceable but they really don't seem to have much in the system regarding top six center prospects. They could use a Horvat, particularly if they keep Pasta, but you're right that it'd be tight. Carolina does have those issues yes, but they could undeniably use a 2C. KK has been a disappointment thus far, despite being young. If they want to contend sooner than later his level of play isn't going to cut it. They have a lot of cap being freed up, they also get Gardiner off the books too. You're right about having to retain guys but I think they could find a way. Particularly if the cap jumps up significantly. Hard to say, Horvat would be a good fit there though if they could make the cap work. They also have assets to pay with. Hard to say with Washington, I'm not sure it'd be a late 1st though. They aren't the team they were, but they'll do everything in their power to insulate Ovi and try to gun for that goal record. Hard to say what we'd get back. They might be better off going after a center with a better track record of playmaking tbh, but top six centers are tough to acquire. You could be right though, we'll see. I don't think we'll have a choice though, I think him moving is inevitable. Edited December 11, 2022 by Coconuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 8 hours ago, Coconuts said: That's a fair point, my counterpoint would be that despite being a fantastic defensive player Stone is still a winger though. Any team would love to have a Stone but he's not a top six center. There is a market for Horvat, if he were to walk to UFA he'd likely have Boston, Carolina, and Washington interested in him at the minimum. The other center in his age bracket who might make it to UFA is Larkin, Horvat could very well be the top center available. And I mean, Larkin is from Michigan, he could very well stay put. Horvat ticks a lot of boxes for any team looking for a top six center. Man I would love for Boston to be interested. I really like Lysell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, J-23 said: Man I would love for Boston to be interested. I really like Lysell Same, it'd be tough for them to make cap though given NTC/NMC restrictions. They could probably find a taker for Debrusk pretty easily though. I'm spitballing but maybe something like Debrusk (4M), Nosek (1.75M), and Lysell for Horvat. Debrusk actually has value, we could flip him. They'd need to cut corners somewhere to sign both Pasta and Horvat though. Maybe we'd need a bit more back idk, this is a very lazy proposal. But hey, maybe bringing in a Horvat is what gets Pasta to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 18 hours ago, Coconuts said: Same, it'd be tough for them to make cap though given NTC/NMC restrictions. They could probably find a taker for Debrusk pretty easily though. I'm spitballing but maybe something like Debrusk (4M), Nosek (1.75M), and Lysell for Horvat. Debrusk actually has value, we could flip him. They'd need to cut corners somewhere to sign both Pasta and Horvat though. Maybe we'd need a bit more back idk, this is a very lazy proposal. But hey, maybe bringing in a Horvat is what gets Pasta to stay. i've said it before boston have absolutely 0 need for horvat this year. he ain't playing wing and he aint playing PP1 mins nor will he be playing on their top 2 line.. why? bergeron is a given on their top line.. Krejci>>horvat in playmaking ability and krejci plays with Pastrnak.. so don't see horvat playing with pastrnak as there'd be no one to give pastrnak the puck.. and then who's horvat playing with on the 3rd line?? you take a guy that's on pace for 50-60 goals to play on ur 3rd line with nobody? Hall prolly moves up to replace debrusk.. so unless they plan on horvat playing on the wing.. he's a terrible fit for boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: i've said it before boston have absolutely 0 need for horvat this year. he ain't playing wing and he aint playing PP1 mins nor will he be playing on their top 2 line.. why? bergeron is a given on their top line.. Krejci>>horvat in playmaking ability and krejci plays with Pastrnak.. so don't see horvat playing with pastrnak as there'd be no one to give pastrnak the puck.. and then who's horvat playing with on the 3rd line?? you take a guy that's on pace for 50-60 goals to play on ur 3rd line with nobody? Hall prolly moves up to replace debrusk.. so unless they plan on horvat playing on the wing.. he's a terrible fit for boston. Then they need Miller! Get ‘er done JR! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: Then they need Miller! Get ‘er done JR! miller would fit their need more so this year horvat prolly fits their need more so when bergeron retires.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: i've said it before boston have absolutely 0 need for horvat this year. he ain't playing wing and he aint playing PP1 mins nor will he be playing on their top 2 line.. why? bergeron is a given on their top line.. Krejci>>horvat in playmaking ability and krejci plays with Pastrnak.. so don't see horvat playing with pastrnak as there'd be no one to give pastrnak the puck.. and then who's horvat playing with on the 3rd line?? you take a guy that's on pace for 50-60 goals to play on ur 3rd line with nobody? Hall prolly moves up to replace debrusk.. so unless they plan on horvat playing on the wing.. he's a terrible fit for boston. It's not just about this year though, that's the entire point. Bergergon is 37, he's be 38 in July. He wasn't even a guarantee to come back for this season. Maybe he comes back next season but that doesn't change the fact that the clock is ticking and they don't have much in the system in the way of center's or center prospects who are close to stepping into top six roles. Krejci is 36, he's be 37 in April. These guys aren't gonna carry the bag forever. This is why Boston pops up as a potential landing spot, because Boston has a roster that's largely built to compete from the D on up. Their top end, cup winning guys aren't getting any younger though. Even Marchand will be 35 in May. Bo will be 28 in April, he offers them a bit more longevity at center. They don't appear to have an in-house option that'll step up any time soon. Sure, they've got some center prospects but none of them look close. Edited December 12, 2022 by Coconuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Coconuts said: It's not just about this year though, that's the entire point. Bergergon is 37, he's be 38 in July. He wasn't even a guarantee to come back for this season. Maybe he comes back next season but that doesn't change the fact that the clock is ticking and they don't have much in the system in the way of center's or center prospects who are close to stepping into top six roles. Krejci is 36, he's be 37 in April. These guys aren't gonna carry the bag forever. This is why Boston pops up as a potential landing spot, because Boston has a roster that's largely built to compete from the D on up. Their top end, cup winning guys aren't getting any younger though. Even Marchand will be 35 in May. Bo will be 28 in April, he offers them a bit more longevity at center. They don't appear to have an in-house option that'll step up any time soon. Sure, they've got some center prospects but none of them look close. then they have no reason to trade away any assets or future.. unless they can negotiate a horvat contract prior.. and like i said i honestly see 0 reasons why horvat would agree to a contract negotiation to any team and not wait for the bidding war that'll happen during free agency.. if he have a monster playoff.. his value will go up even more.. he doesn't owe it to the canucks to be willing to negotiate a contract prior to maximize his return. horvat doesn't fit them this year.. and there's no point of adding a player that doesnt' fit this year while disrupting what's working for them currently.. their plan is to win it this year.. i don't think they are caring about next year and beyond right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey Castiglione Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 1 minute ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: Ahhhh I can see it now. "Canucks upped their offer from 5.1m to 5.7m". I always thought somewhere in the 7's range is where we'd end up with Bo. 56+ million contract is hard to say no to, especially if it's means not uprooting the family. I also feel like this management team hasn't found it's mojo yet, if at all. Trade Miller. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 11 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: then they have no reason to trade away any assets or future.. unless they can negotiate a horvat contract prior.. and like i said i honestly see 0 reasons why horvat would agree to a contract negotiation to any team and not wait for the bidding war that'll happen during free agency.. if he have a monster playoff.. his value will go up even more.. he doesn't owe it to the canucks to be willing to negotiate a contract prior to maximize his return. horvat doesn't fit them this year.. and there's no point of adding a player that doesnt' fit this year while disrupting what's working for them currently.. their plan is to win it this year.. i don't think they are caring about next year and beyond right now. That's the idea, yes. I'm just guessing, but I reckon teams interested in potentially trading for him would want to be able to negotiate an extension. Because if a team trades for him they can give him that eighth year. It could net him a larger payday and it potentially gives him a team that gives him eight years a bit more cap flex because the average comes down. No, he doesn't. Of course Boston cares, particularly if they want to keep Pasta. Any GM worth their salt cares about more than just the current season, Boston's been drafting center's these last few years because it's a weakness in their system. But none of them look close. Not to stepping into a NHL top six role anyway. Boston needs to be looking beyond Bergeron and Krejci because they will need replacing sooner than later. Maybe Bergeron plays til he's 42 though, it'd buy them some time maybe, but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Curse Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 15 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: ok but they are talking and the club obviously not getting the trade offers they want - it was the same with miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 15 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: Doesn't sound like Bo's gonna do them any favours, after they went and threw 56M at Miller I don't see why he would. They've got management by the balls and they know it. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Canucks Curse said: ok but they are talking and the club obviously not getting the trade offers they want - it was the same with miller. It's not the same though, Miller wasn't a pending UFA. And it's hard to say what the offers are, if there have been any, it's still a bit early for big trades around the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doxm Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 According to Dhaliwal the Canucks will now accept the best offer given to them for Horvat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Curse Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Doxm said: According to Dhaliwal the Canucks will now accept the best offer given to them for Horvat. wawaweeewa, that is a shift in the narrative...shakeup coming ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 (edited) That's it for Bo. Tweet outright says the Miller contract handcuffed the team Edited December 12, 2022 by Warhippy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Video: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, Doxm said: According to Dhaliwal the Canucks will now accept the best offer given to them for Horvat. Should have done that with Miller- maybe they are learning. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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