wildcam Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 18 hours ago, JM_ said: Do we need Miller more than Boeser? thats pretty much what it comes down to. Its not an easy call, +'s and -'s either way. Miller: C, feisty, leader, timely scoring, tough to play against. Boeser: natural scorer, getting more physical, younger, high character person and team mate Honestly right now I don't know which one to trade, if we have to. I Agree Boeser 24 is younger Miller 28... Tough hockey call but if you get a 1st rounder, #4 D man under 26 and say top young prospect we are getting younger and giving us cap room... Only a few untouchables, Demko 26, Hughes 21, Horvat 26, Petey 22, Podkolzin 20, Hoglander 21, (one of Boeser 24 or Miller 28) Motte 25 UFA - Trade at deadline this year --Lockwood ready to fill the spot at 900,000 Pearson 28 - Might be hard to move, think there is a no move in contract? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, wildcam said: I Agree Boeser 24 is younger Miller 28... Tough hockey call but if you get a 1st rounder, #4 D man under 26 and say top young prospect we are getting younger and giving us cap room... Only a few untouchables, Demko 26, Hughes 21, Horvat 26, Petey 22, Podkolzin 20, Hoglander 21, (one of Boeser 24 or Miller 28) Motte 25 UFA - Trade at deadline this year --Lockwood ready to fill the spot at 900,000 Pearson 28 - Might be hard to move, think there is a no move in contract? yup thats the kind of deal you can't say no to, particularly if that prospect is a C with size. Can we get that much for Miller? if we can its hard to say no to. Who's more likely to get us a 1st, RHD, and a prospect? I'd have to say Miller over Brock. One thing about the new president is I think we might be able to get a bidding war going for Miller (or Brock) whereas I don't think Benning was really capable of that kind of thing. Edited December 18, 2021 by JM_ 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 1 minute ago, JM_ said: is that how it works tho? he's only 24 I thought we'd have another season of RFA control after this one? Either way, we have the certainty of knowing what we are in for with him for 1 season at least. I see your point. Miller has more tools tho, so I can see step 1 seeing what he'd want for his extension. I suppose Boesers agent will really want to leverage the threat of Miller walking too. Brock might just be too pricey if his agent goes squirrelly and tries to get a ridiculous deal. Well that, and the question I have is Miller like OV where he is great well into his late 30's or does he start dropping off, well before................ Insert....crystal ball here, please! What we can pretty much count on is Brock Boeser being good for the better part of the next 8 years............. Again, please insert crystal ball And please do not get confused over who I see is better..............Miller is now! Crystal ball again, please 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 1 minute ago, J.I.A.H.N said: Well that, and the question I have is Miller like OV where he is great well into his late 30's or does he start dropping off, well before................ Insert....crystal ball here, please! What we can pretty much count on is Brock Boeser being good for the better part of the next 8 years............. Again, please insert crystal ball And please do not get confused over who I see is better..............Miller is now! Crystal ball again, please its one of those situates where it hurts and helps at the same time. I want to keep them both, and we can't. I am glad we have Rutherford handling this tho, I do think he'll get maximum value for either guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, JM_ said: yup thats the kind of deal you can't say no to, particularly if that prospect is a C with size. Can we get that much for Miller? if we can its hard to say no to. Who's more likely to get us a 1st, RHD, and a prospect? I'd have to say Miller over Brock. And this has to be a heavy consideration, Jimmy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 1 minute ago, JM_ said: its one of those situates where it hurts and helps at the same time. I want to keep them both, and we can't. I am glad we have Rutherford handling this tho, I do think he'll get maximum value for either guy. I sure hope so! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 I beat the Braden Schneider drum alot................on HFB's NYR fans, do not want to give him up for nothing short of Pettersson But for that to happen, they would have to give up too much So, they are just flatly saying no......... Personally, I think Miller gets you Schneider and a 2022 -1st or something equal from another team but we will see.................... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 It pains me to say it, but I kind of think we have to. I can't see a future that we resign Miller to the term and money he has earned next year. I just can't see that fitting our cap situation or contending timeline. He is our best chance at landing a young top 4 RD, which is something this team desperately needs. I think we trade him to rebuild the backend and replenish our prospects, then I sincerely hope he wins a cup. Followed up our upcoming Dynasty winning the next 5. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 16 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: I beat the Braden Schneider drum alot................on HFB's NYR fans, do not want to give him up for nothing short of Pettersson But for that to happen, they would have to give up too much So, they are just flatly saying no......... Personally, I think Miller gets you Schneider and a 2022 -1st or something equal from another team but we will see.................... I think that Schneider + 1st for Miller is actually a little light in terms of value. Schneider has proven nothing, he has played 22 AHL games. On current standings the first round pick would be 28th overall. The reluctance from NYR is that they traded Miller away in 2018 and they really lost big time on that trade. They don't really want to pay again just to get him back. They would also struggle to afford Miller's cap hit next season, as they have only $10m to resign Kakko + Strome + 5 other players to complete their roster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 Miller is awesome. Makes him very tradeable, especially on his contract. One JB biggest criticism's, and rightly so for some of the guys that left, was we couldn't re-gain any assets ... well many at least - all of Motte still on the team ...Rutherford is in the cat bird seat compared to the team JB started with, all our major assets aren't bunged up with clauses. Glad he's going to wait and see what Bruce can do first - and won't trade any futures. That said IF we are in the playoffs ... wonder what he would do? Maybe we should be "going for it" while Miller is still under contract. It's a really valid discussion. And should include pretty much every player but Demko and QHs at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, BigTramFan said: I think that Schneider + 1st for Miller is actually a little light in terms of value. Schneider has proven nothing, he has played 22 AHL games. On current standings the first round pick would be 28th overall. The reluctance from NYR is that they traded Miller away in 2018 and they really lost big time on that trade. They don't really want to pay again just to get him back. They would also struggle to afford Miller's cap hit next season, as they have only $10m to resign Kakko + Strome + 5 other players to complete their roster. NYR never has the patience to build properly. They jettisoned everyone but signed Panarin, Trouba and Zinebanejad - that's counter-intuitive - the only reason it looks decent and is something they can sell their fanbase, is they got a 2nd and then a first overall pick. Strange how two of the biggest money makers in the league, "lucked out" in the lottery, when they needed it the most (TO of course the other one in Mathews ...) Edited December 19, 2021 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 23 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: Well that, and the question I have is Miller like OV where he is great well into his late 30's or does he start dropping off, well before................ Insert....crystal ball here, please! What we can pretty much count on is Brock Boeser being good for the better part of the next 8 years............. Again, please insert crystal ball And please do not get confused over who I see is better..............Miller is now! Crystal ball again, please Yes. Super safe bet he's no Ovi, and no Bergeron either. More likely, a Stastny type that ends up playing the bottom six on a good team like he was doing in Vegas against us in his mid 30's..If the cap was going up it would be a little easier to jam them all in. That said if you look at contending teams, they all have a lot of players 5.25 and up so it's possible we could too. Our D is an issue, and we do need to make a hockey trade on that front. It's not overly expensive ... just not quite there. And it's also better then it's been in a long time as well. I don't think our start was nearly as bad as the standings indicate - and don't think that the Bruce games were over the top good either aside from the first one. Things will stabilize, and Rutherford and co will be able to see where we are really at, and make some educated guesses as to where we will go with the same roster, and what needs to happen to improve it. Cap is an issue still and will be during this mini-pre-mature window JB created. To me Myers needs to be replaced internally - and we simply don't have that. Trading for a RHD is what i'm expecting, and Miller absolutely is the likely guy it takes to do that. Just have to find the right team and the right guy. It could happen with picks too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 On 12/17/2021 at 2:36 PM, HKSR said: Do either of those do it for any of you? No, not really. First let me say I don't think JR entertains a Miller trade at this point simply because the turnaround in team performance recently and how key Miller specifically has been. This team without Miller/Huggy/Demko is essentially doomed this season so I don't see Miller going anywhere soon. Ask me right before the TDL and we'll reexamine the situation. BUT, if it had to be Miller, and it had to be the Rags I'd be looking at: Schneider + 2nd (higher of their two), and 4th (higher of their 2), and Robertson. No, it doesn't include a 1st, but I believe it's a fair hockey trade and would fit both clubs needs if a Miller trade was deemed necessary by JR, which, as I mentioned, I don't envision anyway so.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 On 12/18/2021 at 9:12 AM, J.I.A.H.N said: I beat the Braden Schneider drum alot................on HFB's NYR fans, do not want to give him up for nothing short of Pettersson But for that to happen, they would have to give up too much So, they are just flatly saying no......... Personally, I think Miller gets you Schneider and a 2022 -1st or something equal from another team but we will see.................... This is interesting... hadn't thought of Schneider (I've been trying to imagine ways we get Dobson). They have some cap space but would likely want to send some back. Wonder if we could get the somewhat struggling (fits and spurts) Chytil + Schneider for Miller +/-.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) On 12/19/2021 at 10:23 AM, Fanuck said: No, not really. First let me say I don't think JR entertains a Miller trade at this point simply because the turnaround in team performance recently and how key Miller specifically has been. This team without Miller/Huggy/Demko is essentially doomed this season so I don't see Miller going anywhere soon. Ask me right before the TDL and we'll reexamine the situation. BUT, if it had to be Miller, and it had to be the Rags I'd be looking at: Schneider + 2nd (higher of their two), and 4th (higher of their 2), and Robertson. No, it doesn't include a 1st, but I believe it's a fair hockey trade and would fit both clubs needs if a Miller trade was deemed necessary by JR, which, as I mentioned, I don't envision anyway so.... I agree that he's likely not looking to move Miller at this point, but only because he likely isn't looking to move anyone at this point. He's likely still in the evaluation phase, and I think he'd prefer to have more management pieces in place before he makes a move. But as for this season, we're still a long shot whether we keep Miller or not. We've been better, absolutely, but it'd take running the table and a lot of luck to make it despite six straight wins. We're not going to keep winning forever, and there will be periods where we string losses together. The teams ahead of us have kept winning lately too. It's possible we're still in it closer to the deadline, but if I had to bet on us being in the mix or not I'd put money on us being on the outskirts still. The proposal is solid, if not realistic. Rutherford has a reputation for making fair trades, which is why he's made trades more frequently. It's easier to make trades when you're not always trying to win them. Edited December 21, 2021 by Coconuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/18/2021 at 12:03 PM, JM_ said: yup thats the kind of deal you can't say no to, particularly if that prospect is a C with size. Can we get that much for Miller? if we can its hard to say no to. Who's more likely to get us a 1st, RHD, and a prospect? I'd have to say Miller over Brock. One thing about the new president is I think we might be able to get a bidding war going for Miller (or Brock) whereas I don't think Benning was really capable of that kind of thing. Rutherford has all the contacts ... we are at another level with him as a GM as far as options go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 hour ago, IBatch said: Rutherford has all the contacts ... we are at another level with him as a GM as far as options go. thats what I'm hoping. Even if he can somehow shed some middle 6 or bottom d contracts, we still need more cap space to retain Miller or Brock, and bring in UFA talent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JM_ said: thats what I'm hoping. Even if he can somehow shed some middle 6 or bottom d contracts, we still need more cap space to retain Miller or Brock, and bring in UFA talent. He's the closer lol. Which is fine. Won't be around for long, but if we are lucky the stuff like Lou did in NJ/TO/NYI that he leaves with us organizationally, will be valuable for a long time. What a massive difference between one AGM and no president. Whomever takes on the big job - as GM - is going to get a lot of support. Edit: Read that Lou used to have a player wall in his office...that is a card for each player in the league. With his notes on it while running NJ. Guys like Rutherford and Lou have all the contacts and play the league like 3d chess. Edited December 21, 2021 by IBatch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, IBatch said: He's the closer lol. Which is fine. Won't be around for long, but if we are lucky the stuff like Lou did in NJ/TO/NYI that he leaves with us organizationally, will be valuable for a long time. What a massive difference between one AGM and no president. Whomever takes on the big job - as GM - is going to get a lot of support. Edit: Read that Lou used to have a player wall in his office...that is a card for each player in the league. With his notes on it while running NJ. Guys like him and Lou have all the contacts and play the league like 3d chess. he should have time to set this up on the fly here before the TDL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Just now, JM_ said: he should have time to set this up on the fly here before the TDL. You bet. Like reading about how he was getting calls before things were finalized. His rolodex is top tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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