Trade High, and control the narrative (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

Not a proposal per say, but I really want to push the narrative for sure.................

 

I started to print that we have never to my knowledge, sold high of one of star players, nor have we ever intentionally tried to control our own destiny...............

 

What I mean by this is we have never knowingly tried to "Tank" that I am aware of?

 

Now, since I started thinking about both of these premises, I realized that yes, we had in fact, sold high, with great success.................

 

Cory Schneider for New Jersey's 9th over all..............well how did that work out for us? I ask, tongue and cheek. Yes, it was a incredible success!

 

Horvat has been a top end staple ever since!

 

Now, the second part of this is what happens if we were to sell high on a player of Millers stature, within the Canuck frame work...................

 

Well, IMHO, we sag, but obviously not to the bottom, but maybe far enough to pick another difference maker................

 

Now, as most team's competing for the Stanley Cup will not trade top player for top player, it becomes very obvious that a trade of this stature is a futures trade for the Canucks.

 

Schneider , and 2022 1st, plus,    or     Barron, and a 2023 1st, plus ..............both fit the bill, to a large degree...............and what is the plus?

 

Is there other RHD prospects out there that fill the requirement? And if so, who are they?

 

Anyways, the other fringe benefit is that we either fall somewhat, short term, or plateau for the remainder of the year, but in any case, we benefit from the trade in several ways.

 

It is not simply "Tank" for a better prospect, but rather a multiple pronged move that benefits us, long term, and is more inline with our young core.

 

The question, is, like so many proposals, is, do we trade Miller for the "RIGHT" assets? Can you accept this as a good management decision?

 

Please vote, and comment........

 

Thanks!

 

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[Chickenspear]

Not sure Rutherford should be high while making trades.

[JM_]

@J.I.A.H.N Rutherford like to pull the trigger early, so I think you'll get your wish here. 

 

https://vancouverhockeynow.com/2021/12/12/nhl-vancouver-canucks-pittsburgh-penguins-trade-deadline-stanley-cup-jim-rutherford/

 

Its a good strategy, get the trade done while other teams are still deciding if they are sellers. Sets the market for everyone else instead of being a follower.

 

Miller 50% retained might be the best available player under contract in a long while too. 

[King Heffy]

I support trading anyone for the right return.

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

@J.I.A.H.N

 

https://vancouverhockeynow.com/2021/12/12/nhl-vancouver-canucks-pittsburgh-penguins-trade-deadline-stanley-cup-jim-rutherford/

 

 follower.

 

Miller 50% retained might be the best available player under contract in a long while too. 

JM, Am skeptical owners will sign up for 50% retention - but obviously it would sweeten the pot(& future plot).

 

As you gents have prob seen already, am seriously pondering whether we SHOULD sell early, AND perhaps move TWO big pieces(Miller & another..?)

 

It's mighty HARD to take a step(or two) back now, but it could set the table for 8-10 yrs of a more competitive team.

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

JM, Am skeptical owners will sign up for 50% retention - but obviously it would sweeten the pot(& future plot).

 

As you gents have prob seen already, am seriously pondering whether we SHOULD sell early, AND perhaps move TWO big pieces(Miller & another..?)

 

It's mighty HARD to take a step(or two) back now, but it could set the table for 8-10 yrs of a more competitive team.

 

I'm not convinced that it will be a step back. Look at ANA and what they are doing, if you want evidence that you can have success on the re-tool. 

 

Lets say the Chytil, Schneider and a 1st deal goes down. Schnieder gets the rest of this year to learn with us and likely earns a spot next year. Chytil certainly is an upgrade at 3C for us. 

 

Yes we need more, but Podkolzin may also be ready for more regular top 6 time next year too. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by JM_

[Nucker 67]

If the Canucks are in a playoff spot, I'm not sure they would trade their best player.  If they go on a bit of a losing streak and miss out, then I'm all for trading Miller for a big return.

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 minute ago, NUCKER67 said:

If the Canucks are in a playoff spot, I'm not sure they would trade their best player.  If they go on a bit of a losing streak and miss out, then I'm all for trading Miller for a big return.

But it's the razor's edge that we all dance upon.

 

IF we are playing well, & seemingly hold tighter to our prime resources, well that may very well be WHEN the most attractive(knock-yer-socks-off) offer arrives.

 

It's a question of immediate-gratification vs playing a long-game with a serious contender aspirations(perhaps in 2025?)

[aGENT]

9 minutes ago, JM_ said:

 

I'm not convinced that it will be a step back. Look at ANA and what they are doing, if you want evidence that you can have success on the re-tool. 

 

Lets say the Chytil, Schneider and a 1st deal goes down. Schnieder gets the rest of this year to learn with us and likely earns a spot next year. Chytil certainly is an upgrade at 3C for us. 

 

Yes we need more, but Podkolzin may also be ready for more regular top 6 time next year too. 

I'd laugh if we do move Miller and still make the playoffs 

[Nuxfanabroad]

6 minutes ago, JM_ said:

 

I'm not convinced that it will be a step back. Look at ANA and what they are doing, if you want evidence that you can have success on the re-tool. 

 

Lets say the Chytil, Schneider and a 1st deal goes down. Schnieder gets the rest of this year to learn with us and likely earns a spot next year. Chytil certainly is an upgrade at 3C for us. 

 

Yes we need more, but Podkolzin may also be ready for more regular top 6 time next year too. 

The beautiful thing is we could amass all these assets for JT, which will almost certainly exceed the asset we would have landed with that 2019 1st r pick(had we never acquired him in the first place)!

 

But we got 3(albeit interrupted) great seasons outa' him anyways..which helped our kids get valuable PO-experience.

[Phil_314]

15 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

But it's the razor's edge that we all dance upon.

 

IF we are playing well, & seemingly hold tighter to our prime resources, well that may very well be WHEN the most attractive(knock-yer-socks-off) offer arrives.

 

It's a question of immediate-gratification vs playing a long-game with a serious contender aspirations(perhaps in 2025?)

I think the answer is pretty obvious, we ought to trade Miller if there's 3 x 1st round pick caliber players available (Schneider, Chytil and 1st).

[Nuxfanabroad]

4 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

I think the answer is pretty obvious, we ought to trade Miller if there's 3 x 1st round pick caliber players available (Schneider, Chytil and 1st).

But then say you're strongly angling in on the Div 2nd-slot? Not many GM's back off, when in such a position. Appears a lotta Pac Div hard-chargers are running low on fuel these days.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

I think the answer is pretty obvious, we ought to trade Miller if there's 3 x 1st round pick caliber players available (Schneider, Chytil and 1st).

This is exactly the return I’m hoping for.  

We should trade Dickinson and Motte (if we can get decent return) too.

Miller, Dickinson, and Motte could turn into:

Chytil

Schneider

1st

2nd

3rd

4th

[JM_]

50 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'd laugh if we do move Miller and still make the playoffs 

I was thinking more next year... but sure, why not? 

 

if we get destroyed over the next week or so due to all the covid crap, I'd rather see the Miller deal go down in mid-Feb than wait until the TDL. 

[Provost]

1 hour ago, Chickenspear said:

Not sure Rutherford should be high while making trades.

Yep, we shouldn’t be doing things the same way as the last regime.

[Provost]

An odd bit of good news is that since Miller has Covid now, he is exempt from a lot of the testing and travel rules for basically the rest of the season.

 

It will be easier to trade him.

[Phil_314]

42 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

But then say you're strongly angling in on the Div 2nd-slot? Not many GM's back off, when in such a position. Appears a lotta Pac Div hard-chargers are running low on fuel these days.

Backing off and cashing in high on your assets aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.  Chytil's got top-6 W or C upside (sound familiar?  Also was compared with Tomas Plekanec during his draft, which is solid) and Schneider's probably at worst a bottom-pair RHD right now.  If we can integrate these two and sell Motte for a decent pick, then trade a low pick for another up-and-coming energy winger (no one knew who Motte was when he was the throw-in when we traded Vanek) and trade Halak (e.g. to Pittsburgh for DeSmith, buying low for someone who's having an off year) we could get younger, save a lot of cap space, sell high on these guys and retool on the fly.

Even if no one takes Poolman/ Hamonic/ Dickinson we'd reload for the future and relieve a lot of cap pressure without the immediacy of an urgent raise for Miller on the horizon.     

Edited January 22, 2022 by Phil_314

[fanfor42]

Proposal trade JIAHN and Provost for a bag of pucks and a Miller jersey. Lol.

 

 

[Ballisticsports.]

It's more or less

Do we wanna be good now keeping him

or

Have more of a chance later for the bigger prize of a cup

[JustABandwagoner]

3 hours ago, JM_ said:

Miller 50% retained might be the best available player under contract in a long while too. 

I think Horvat 50% retained is also pretty good. Imagine an elite 2nd line center for a cup contender costing only ~3M