Me_ Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, rekker said: Ya. 26 year old max. Really, this all boils down to the misses with OJ and Jake and the organizations inability to draft and develop D. I don't really include Hughes as that was a no brainer, and still can't believe he dropped to us. You don’t really include the potential best defenseman in the history of the Canucks. How convenient. Could've drafted Boqvist… bigger… Could’ve drafted Bouchard… bigger… Could’ve drafted Dobson… much bigger… No, Benning knows the draft and drafted a legitimate franchise 1D. He could’ve gone rogue like most GMs have. How absolutely pissed and feeling robbed we could’ve felt for the next quarter century had Hughes gone back one spot up to Detroit; something Detroit greatly regrets. Edited February 15, 2022 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Fanuck said: I understand the trepidation of overvaluing a player - especially a young player we do not see much of on the west coast. I have been following Schneider since I saw him play live several times in the WHL and I could go on about this aspect of his game or that, but in the end my opinion can be as easily dismissed as the next guy who says he's going to be a career bottom pairing d-man. There are media in NY who have been taken aback by Schneider's development and poise - one even compared him to Ryan McDonagh since that was the last time they saw a rookie defenceman in a Ranger's uniform with that skill-set and poise (McDonagh was both older and had more AHL experience under his belt at that time as well). One thing that I note is that Schnieder has played a lot of minutes in the games he got recently and his TOI/gp has risen steadily as he gets more games - you don't play rookie defenceman on a contending team a lot in the NHL unless they are doing things right, a lot of things. Further to this, the Rangers coaching staff gave him some limited minutes at first, but when injuries hit what surprised a lot of people was how seamlessly Schneider adapted and flourished after having his ice time increase and being exposed to different game situations. Does this mean he'll be a star, no - but as I pointed out in an earlier thread if you break down the numbers the only true rookie defenceman his own age that are playing more minutes in more situations/game than Schneider are Seider and Drysdale - to me that says a lot about both where Schneider is now in his development curve and where he might be in 2-3 years when he's not even close to being in his prime. I'd concede, there no guarantees, but everything points to Schneider being at the very least, a #2 defenceman in the NHL capable of logging high minutes in any situation while bringing a heavy physical presence to defensive zone coverage. This team does not presently have any prospect like this at the moment (I don't classify JR as this type of prospect as he lacks the physicality/physical presence of a Schneider) and in my view this type of asset (Schneider or someone like him) is a grossly undervalued piece of any contending team's core player group. Combine that with the fact he's still on year 1 of his ELC and he's already playing upwards of 20min/night on a contending team makes me feel confident of what he can fully develop into. I get all of this and think Schneider is a great centerpiece in a trade for Miller, but him and a late 1st (or 2nd as was proposed) is simply not enough for someone of Miller's calibre, who's a ppg centre that can play wing, pp, pk, gritty, and clutch hockey, and who also isn't a rental. Calgary just paid up a good price for Toffoli, but Miller is next level for a team that wants to go for glory, and I'm not so sure there's a team out there right now who's willing to pony up enough to get him. One thing is almost certain: Allvin et al won't trade Miller for only Schneider and a late 1st. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 1 minute ago, Jester13 said: I get all of this and think Schneider is a great centerpiece in a trade for Miller, but him and a late 1st (or 2nd as was proposed) is simply not enough for someone of Miller's calibre, who's a ppg centre that can play wing, pp, pk, gritty, and clutch hockey, and who also isn't a rental. Calgary just paid up a good price for Toffoli, but Miller is next level for a team that wants to go for glory, and I'm not so sure there's a team out there right now who's willing to pony up enough to get him. One thing is almost certain: Allvin et al won't trade Miller for only Schneider and a late 1st. Telling you. Lafreniere Schneider Chytil 1st ‘22 Is not too far fetched now that Toffoli went for so much.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Just now, Me_ said: Telling you. Lafreniere Schneider Chytil 1st ‘22 Is not too far fetched now that Toffoli went for so much.. I don't think NY entertains that. I'd say more the first two pieces alone is a good trade for both, or the last three pieces and maybe a 2nd as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickyoursedin Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 1 minute ago, Me_ said: Telling you. Lafreniere Schneider Chytil 1st ‘22 Is not too far fetched now that Toffoli went for so much.. Maybe switch Laf out for Othmann. That seems like a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Just now, Jester13 said: I don't think NY entertains that. I'd say more the first two pieces alone is a good trade for both, or the last three pieces and maybe a 2nd as well. Then it may not be worth it to the Canucks. Miller is ACE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, Me_ said: You don’t really include the potential best defenseman in the history of the Canucks. How convenient. Could've drafted Boqvist… bigger… Could’ve drafted Bouchard… bigger… Could’ve drafted Dobson… much bigger… No, Benning knows the draft and drafted a legitimate franchise 1D. He could’ve gone rogue like most GMs have. How absolutely pissed and feeling robbed we could’ve felt for the next quarter century had Hughes gone back one spot up to Detroit; something Detroit greatly regrets. Hughes was a no brainer. Sure, there have been a few D picked over the years. Canucks drafting and development of D has always and historically been atrocious. Still is. One home run off a soft pitch doesn't make up for decades of swings and misses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Just now, rekker said: Hughes was a no brainer. Sure, there have been a few D picked over the years. Canucks drafting and development of D has always and historically been atrocious. Still is. One home run off a soft pitch doesn't make up for decades of swings and misses. If he were a no brainer, how come six teams passed on him before he dropped to the Canucks? Quinn Hughes is a legitimate decision Linden doesn’t do. Or Nonis. Burke might not either because of his size. The Canucks did their homework and drafted correctly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 7 minutes ago, Me_ said: Then it may not be worth it to the Canucks. Miller is ACE. If we retained 50% then they might listen a little more, but I feel Laf is untouchable for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 1 minute ago, Jester13 said: If we retained 50% then they might listen a little more, but I feel Laf is untouchable for them. So should Miller be untouchable. He’s the guy that scores that double overtime game seven goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovalchuk Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 18 minutes ago, Me_ said: Telling you. Lafreniere Schneider Chytil 1st ‘22 Is not too far fetched now that Toffoli went for so much.. Holy crap you're going to be disappointed when/if Miller get's traded. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 33 minutes ago, Me_ said: If he were a no brainer, how come six teams passed on him before he dropped to the Canucks? Quinn Hughes is a legitimate decision Linden doesn’t do. Or Nonis. Burke might not either because of his size. The Canucks did their homework and drafted correctly. Hughes was a no brainer by the time he dropped to us. I was shocked Detroit didn't take him, but he was a no brainer by the time he dropped to us. Not sure where your going with the topic. You couldn't possibly be defending decades of Canucks ineptitude when it comes to drafting and developing dmen? Closing in on 50 years and not even a Norris nomination in any of them. Ohlund was maybe the closest. The team has been brutal and developing their own Dmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 8 hours ago, spook007 said: How did we give him up for nothing? Duh, we should have traded him at the deadline. Short term investment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, rekker said: Hughes was a no brainer by the time he dropped to us. I was shocked Detroit didn't take him, but he was a no brainer by the time he dropped to us. Not sure where your going with the topic. You couldn't possibly be defending decades of Canucks ineptitude when it comes to drafting and developing dmen? Closing in on 50 years and not even a Norris nomination in any of them. Ohlund was maybe the closest. The team has been brutal and developing their own Dmen. That’s what I’m saying. Finally a man had the vision and understanding in how to draft one. Hughes was all Benning and his team knowing where they were going. Edited February 15, 2022 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Just now, Me_ said: That’s what I’m saying. Finally a man had the vision and understanding in how to draft one. That is the gift Benning has given us. No. Correct me if I'm wrong but under JB we have Hughes playing D. OJ = Bust. Woo = Not sure yet. All thats left that I can think of is Rathbone, Woo, and Hutchison, Brisebois, maybe Forsling, but we didn't develop him. That's all I can think of. One legit NHL dman, who was a gimme pick. It just carries on the tradition of Canucks ineptitude at drafting and developing D. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Just now, rekker said: No. Correct me if I'm wrong but under JB we have Hughes playing D. OJ = Bust. Woo = Not sure yet. All thats left that I can think of is Rathbone, Woo, and Hutchison, Brisebois, maybe Forsling, but we didn't develop him. That's all I can think of. One legit NHL dman, who was a gimme pick. It just carries on the tradition of Canucks ineptitude at drafting and developing D. Tryamkin was a good pick but horribly mishandled. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, rekker said: No. Correct me if I'm wrong but under JB we have Hughes playing D. OJ = Bust. Woo = Not sure yet. All thats left that I can think of is Rathbone, Woo, and Hutchison, Brisebois, maybe Forsling, but we didn't develop him. That's all I can think of. One legit NHL dman, who was a gimme pick. It just carries on the tradition of Canucks ineptitude at drafting and developing D. Fair. I’ll take a franchise defenseman over 7 T4Ds anytime. Had Nonis been at the table instead of Benning, he could’ve drafted another Patrick White. No pick is a given, even at number six. Detroit missed out hard on that one. Edited February 15, 2022 by Me_ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 1 hour ago, King Heffy said: Name one Calgary forward other than Toffoli who doesn't fit that description. If me calling out that classless organization offends you, feel free to go to your safe space at Calgarypuck. I wouldn't call Lucic a gutless coward to his face so by default that makes me a gutless coward haha. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHL'er Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 9 hours ago, qwijibo said: Toffoli had a brief cup of coffee in Vancouver. A bit disingenuous calling him a Canuck when he played far more games in LA and Montreal I've been accused of many things, but being disingenous on an ice hockey forum is a first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 7 minutes ago, Chris12345 said: I wouldn't call Lucic a gutless coward to his face so by default that makes me a gutless coward haha. I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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