combover Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Good return for a guy Jb let walk for free. flames just got better. flames in a position to go for it makes sense to load up. still hope they lose in the first round. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 8 minutes ago, Angry Goose said: No doubt TT is a Sutter guy. Good point but didn't the Kings roster lock Sutter out of the dressing room once? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyGuy123 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Pearson could be in play here. Gudbranson? Lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack in the box Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Rangers on the phone now; need a deal before the price goes up higher on Miller. Too late, the price just went up. Miller is a 10 compared to Tyler's 6.5 or 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalCanuckFan Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 High cost for Toffoli but given his contract status, if Toffoli can remain productive, then Flames could still trade him in the future. They might as well make a run now with this core, especially with Tkachuk being a RFA this summer and Gaudreau being a UFA. Mangiapane and Kylington are RFAs too and are likely to have relatively substantial raises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13231 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Although there are a lot of pieces, is the return for MTL really as great as people are making it sound? - a conditional 1st rounder - Pitlick (pending UFA) - Heineman (B prospect, traded twice since drafted in 2020) - 5 rounder (negligible) Is this enough to warrant excitement to land Laf, an A prospect, 1st rounder, etc from NYR as some are suddenly expecting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, 13231 said: Although there are a lot of pieces, is the return for MTL really as great as people are making it sound? - a conditional 1st rounder - Pitlick (pending UFA) - Heineman (B prospect, traded twice since drafted in 2020) - 5 rounder (negligible) Is this enough to warrant excitement to land Laf, an A prospect, 1st rounder, etc from NYR as some are suddenly expecting? I for one have never expected that kind of return. For me, the keys to a Miller trade are quality and team needs. The Rangers top young wingers don't interest me. Schneider answers both team needs and quality. He's an A prospect. A deal centered around Schneider and the Rags first are the center pieces. I feel Schneider, first, and one of those wingers will never happen. It would be nice to be wrong, but I don't see it. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalCanuckFan Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, 13231 said: Although there are a lot of pieces, is the return for MTL really as great as people are making it sound? - a conditional 1st rounder - Pitlick (pending UFA) - Heineman (B prospect, traded twice since drafted in 2020) - 5 rounder (negligible) Is this enough to warrant excitement to land Laf, an A prospect, 1st rounder, etc from NYR as some are suddenly expecting? I think the return is still quite high for Toffoli mainly considering that Toffoli, while productive, is not as productive as Miller nor is Toffoli as versatile a player as Miller. Heineman is a decent prospect playing at the highest pro level in Sweden. Didn't see the condition on the 1st earlier - don't see any language about what happens if it is a top-10 pick. Does it convert to a 2023 1st? At any rate, the return provides some indication about what the market floor might be for Miller right now. I'm not going to hold my breath for NYR giving up Lafreniere and Schneider in a packaged return (among other pieces) for Miller but it's less unreasonable to expect that Miller could net a very solid return that would be a much more superior to what Montreal obtained for Toffoli. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13231 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Just now, rekker said: I for one have never expected that kind of return. For me, the keys to a Miller trade are quality and team needs. The Rangers top young wingers don't interest me. Schneider answers both team needs and quality. He's an A prospect. A deal centered around Schneider and the Rags first are the center pieces. I feel Schneider, first, and one of those wingers will never happen. It would be nice to be wrong, but I don't see it. Same here, 99% of the Miller trade proposals I see around here just sound like straight up fantasy to me. There is zero past precedent based in reality, where a team that is currently in need for a player like Miller gives up close to what the fan base is expecting. And I agree, it would be nice to be wrong, but I don't see it either. And furthermore, I see more use in keeping Miller overall. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said: I think the return is still quite high for Toffoli mainly considering that Toffoli, while productive, is not as productive as Miller nor is Toffoli as versatile a player as Miller. Heineman is a decent prospect playing at the highest pro level in Sweden. Didn't see the condition on the 1st earlier - don't see any language about what happens if it is a top-10 pick. Does it convert to a 2023 1st? At any rate, the return provides some indication about what the market floor might be for Miller right now. I'm not going to hold my breath for NYR giving up Lafreniere and Schneider in a packaged return (among other pieces) for Miller but it's less unreasonable to expect that Miller could net a very solid return that would be a much more superior to what Montreal obtained for Toffoli. If it’s top 10 the pick slides to next year and Calgary adds a 4th 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 49 minutes ago, Me_ said: No bud. The Flames will never look good. K. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 43 minutes ago, rekker said: Yip. If I was a Flames fan, I would approve. Actually if I was a Flames fan, I would cut my mullet, kick my cousin out of bed, and then I would approve. If you were a Flames fan, would that be your Brokeback Mountain cousin, or simply your Hillbilly cousin? Asking for a friend. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 16 minutes ago, 13231 said: Although there are a lot of pieces, is the return for MTL really as great as people are making it sound? - a conditional 1st rounder - Pitlick (pending UFA) - Heineman (B prospect, traded twice since drafted in 2020) - 5 rounder (negligible) Is this enough to warrant excitement to land Laf, an A prospect, 1st rounder, etc from NYR as some are suddenly expecting? It is not a “conditional” 1st round pick. That is the language you would use if they “might” get a 1st round pick in the deal if some condition was met (like making the finals)… so you are trying to make it sound worse than it is. It is a 1st round pick in either 2022 or 2023… they 100% are getting a 1st round pick. It is top 10 protected this year and if the pick is inside the top 10, Calgary can choose to instead give an unprotected 1st plus a 4th in 2023. Also, Toffoli is a 2nd line winger… so isn’t in the same stratosphere as Miller who can play centre and has been in the top 10-15 in scoring all season. In order to make it worthwhile, the return would absolutely be a top prospect, a 1st rounder, and another piece. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 19 minutes ago, 13231 said: Is this enough to warrant excitement to land Laf, an A prospect, 1st rounder, etc from NYR as some are suddenly expecting? 9 minutes ago, rekker said: I for one have never expected that kind of return. For me, the keys to a Miller trade are quality and team needs. The Rangers top young wingers don't interest me. Schneider answers both team needs and quality. He's an A prospect. A deal centered around Schneider and the Rags first are the center pieces. I feel Schneider, first, and one of those wingers will never happen. It would be nice to be wrong, but I don't see it. I've said many times that I believe people here are completely unrealistic in their expectations of a potential Miller trade and this TT trade doesn't change that opinion. Don't get me wrong, nobody would turn down a Schneider/Lafrenier/1st offer (at least I don't think they would) but I simply don't see that happening (glad to be proven wrong though if it happens). To me, a satisfactory return for Miller would be Schneider/high 2nd or Schneider and a low 1st. If you look at what Schneider can potentially develop into (a team's best shut-down defenceman capable of playing 25+min/night on the right side in any situation), to me those types of players don't come become available very often and that isn't even mentioning that this type of asset is EXACTLY what we need on this club to round out the developing core that is supposed to compete in 2 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, bigbadcanucks said: If you were a Flames fan, would that be your Brokeback Mountain cousin, or simply your Hillbilly cousin? Asking for a friend. I can't even go there. Lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcheeze86 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Millers stock just went way up after this trade if the Nyr rumors are true lafrenniere shneider 1strnd 2ndrnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Fanuck said: I've said many times that I believe people here are completely unrealistic in their expectations of a potential Miller trade and this TT trade doesn't change that opinion. Don't get me wrong, nobody would turn down a Schneider/Lafrenier/1st offer (at least I don't think they would) but I simply don't see that happening (glad to be proven wrong though if it happens). To me, a satisfactory return for Miller would be Schneider/high 2nd or Schneider and a low 1st. If you look at what Schneider can potentially develop into (a team's best shut-down defenceman capable of playing 25+min/night on the right side in any situation), to me those types of players don't come become available very often and that isn't even mentioning that this type of asset is EXACTLY what we need on this club to round out the developing core that is supposed to compete in 2 years. Exactly. People are underestimating the worth of an A prospect, big, strong, right side dman. They are golden and rarely offered up in trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 28 minutes ago, 13231 said: Although there are a lot of pieces, is the return for MTL really as great as people are making it sound? - a conditional 1st rounder - Pitlick (pending UFA) - Heineman (B prospect, traded twice since drafted in 2020) - 5 rounder (negligible) Is this enough to warrant excitement to land Laf, an A prospect, 1st rounder, etc from NYR as some are suddenly expecting? upgrade every one of those pieces for Miller unconditional first good, cost controlled roster player Grade A prospect maybe another pick or lesser prospect 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 14 minutes ago, 13231 said: Same here, 99% of the Miller trade proposals I see around here just sound like straight up fantasy to me. There is zero past precedent based in reality, where a team that is currently in need for a player like Miller gives up close to what the fan base is expecting. And I agree, it would be nice to be wrong, but I don't see it either. And furthermore, I see more use in keeping Miller overall. Miller is 21st in scoring as a C/W in the league. He has almost hit the 50 point mark. VS Tofolli who hasnt sniffed the 30 point mark. Tofolli is older, Miller is cost controlled for his contract for another full season. Tofolli does not play in an all situations type pace like Miller. Nor is he a leader, he's a 2nd line winger trending towards middle 6. Regardless of the extra year on his contract Miller is missing I feel as though if the return is not a combination of multiple 1st round picks, an established young player worth the name + an A+ prospect JR and the new management team will have completely failed in regards to RoA regarding Miller. Like it or not, call it fantasy if you'd like. The bar has just been set and established for trades this season. The Schneider/Lafrenier, 1st + Baron/Chytill/Kravtov + comments and dreams are now not only in the realms of believability but I dare say almost an expectation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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