[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at New Jersey Devils | Feb. 28, 2022

[Wolfgang Durst]

18 minutes ago, KFan said:

Yeah, Halak was a disaster, but so was the rest of the team. When Pearson may have been the best player on the ice, that's a bad performance by the entire team. Hoglander is so bad right now, as is Boeser, and I hate to say it, but so is Horvat. Our defense was pathetic, including Hughes, but forwards are also supposed to be part of the defense, and last night, they did not show up. I wish Halak would acknowledge how bad he's been and just walk away. He should be embarrassed. I wish Horvat would just give up the captaincy. I think he'd be a better player cause I think the pressure is too much for him. As much as Miller ticks me sometimes with his pouting and outbursts, at least he plays with passion and if he were captain, I believe some of that would rub off on other players who so badly need passion in their game. They exhibited so little passion with their turnovers and lack of board effort and quality shots, they couldn't be expected to win. Definitely one of the most frustrating games of the season.

 

On another note, that other Hughes kid ain't bad...and next year Luke will join NJ on defense. Mom sure taught those boys how to skate.

I had to laugh once I saw Myers positioning against Jack Hughes on the Jersey's opening goal. Straigt up embarrassing. Didn't Myers see that another Canucks player back-checking and covering the second Devil's forward. Comedy. That's comedy.

[EOTM]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

If that's you way guys see it that's fine/reasonable(?). I guess Halak just lost the game for us then and we have no other concerns and shouldn't address any issues or hold any of the players responsible in any way. Not a big deal at all really.

 

I will see you guys in round 1 of the playoffs. Go  Go! 

I've said quite the opposite actually. You may be going wrong by thinking this is just a black and white problem. Saying that green was a problem and saying that Halak has played like crap this season isn't the same as saying this team is perfect if those two problems are solved.

 

Yes every player should be held accountable but honestly this just seems like you're whining that other people are whining.

 

There are several issues with this team for it to be competitive for anything more than a playoff spot. A giant hole on D filled with a player who doesn't fill the whole and may or may not have a longer than average neck would be another big one. That doesn't negate that coaching was a problem and it doesn't negate that the back up position not being properly filled is a problem.

Edited March 1, 2022 by EOTM

[EOTM]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

4rth liners are fourth liners because they aren't good enough to be on a higher line. Either not as skilled, or consistent, or more prone to mistakes.

Halak has been ok this year- except for his last two starts.-where he has been brutal- and the team sucked- not likely to win.

Bad play results in being benched- players sit and goalies get pulled.

A player not being on the top of his game can result in reduced minutes in that game as well. Pearson played 15:13 and Horvat got 17:28

A couple of the D had brutal games  OEL and Meyers finished -3- so if those guys didn't play, would the team have only been down by 2 goals?

Obviously Halak wasn't good, thus he got pulled.

 

Bad starts have been and are continuing to kill this team, and the back up isn't good enough to keep a poor starting team in the game until/maybe the team wakes up.

Heck even Demko ,a Vezina caliber goalie hasn't managed to keep the team in every game they started poorly.

 

That's why I said they should be held accountable to their role. A fourth liner and a back up goalie should not be held to the same standards as a first liner or a starter.

 

Outside of Boston and LA Halak has not been ok this season in his starts. If the answer is that the D should be firing the pucks away from him out of the zone then that's a huge problem in the NHL.

[CanucksJay]

8 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

I had to laugh once I saw Myers positioning against Jack Hughes on the Jersey's opening goal. Straigt up embarrassing. Didn't Myers see that another Canucks player back-checking and covering the second Devil's forward. Comedy. That's comedy.

GIve credit to Highmore getting on his horse. It's a fast game.

How often do we see a backchecker catch up from this position? The only reason why Highmore even caught up was that Hughes slowed down to load up on the wrister.

I dont know how you can blame Myers for this. In a 2 on 1, you take away the pass and leave shooter to goalie.

He did that and Halak let in a goal that he wasn't happy with

 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

There is lots of room for criticism for all players

 

1. Halak was a sieve

 

2. Our Defense could not handle New Jerseys speed in the first half of the game

 

3. Our forwards produce very little offense last night........easy turn overs

 

4. No physicality at all, especially the forwards

 

But the biggest thing I seen last night was how the team as a whole played so much better with Demko in the nets. It was like 2 different teams, where it should not have been. IMO I did not see Demko make that many big saves, but rather, the team stepped up and their attention to detail improved dramatically. Unfortunately, the game was over. If I am BB, it is what Pisses me off most about the game. It was the difference of how the team played in front of each goalie. And it is not the first time.

 

I think the question is, are we ready to take the next step, in the next 2 years? If so, then JR needs only to tweak the roster, but, my question is with how we are constructed, regarding Cap, how do we make those tweaks? JR can certainly not rely on our farm system to give us that relief, and our cap pretty much prevents us from doing any real improvements, even if we moved enough cap space, not to tweak the defense. Aka, moving Dickenson/Poolman/Halak only gives us enough cap relief to pay Boeser, then the same problem happens the next year with Horvat and Miller, then the next year Pettersson will need a top up. The common thread in all that is, it is all forwards we are working on with our Cap.

 

This leads me to the point, that IMO, JR needs to rejig the entire team, and undo some of Benning's commitments, or we take at minimum 2 year step back, and rebuild/retool etc.

 

I think those that think Martin fixes everything, are really fooling themselves. It may improve things, but with such a small sample size in regards to Martin, I would not bank on it. And it does not fix the RHD or the 3rd line center hole, we have.

 

Too many holes in the Dike, to think we are close to being a consistent competing team. Sure a 500 team, but to take that next step, and win consistently, against top 10 opposition, I think we are a ways off, with no remedy in site.

[BCNate]

That sucked.  We got our asses kicked.  

I'd rather that than lose a hard fought game though.  Everyone coasted the 2nd half of the game, which saved some energy for the Islanders.  We can still salvage a good result from this road trip, but it got a whole lot harder.

[Pears]

Isn’t it convenient that the ones who are loudest after we get thoroughly beat are the same ones who are the quietest whenever we’re on a hot streak 

[CanucksJay]

3 minutes ago, BCNate said:

That sucked.  We got our asses kicked.  

I'd rather that than lose a hard fought game though.  Everyone coasted the 2nd half of the game, which saved some energy for the Islanders.  We can still salvage a good result from this road trip, but it got a whole lot harder.

LOL that's one way of looking at it

Team is so Jekyl and Hyde... Wouldn't surprise me if we salvage the week with a win  against NYI and TO. But then again, it also wouldnt surprise me if we lose both.

We cant afford to lose games we should win at this point.

Our only hope of making the playoffs is to win the games we should win and try to stay at least 500 agasint the good teams.

 

 

[khay]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

Similar to how you see the loss as a team loss and not just on Halak, I think the Myers turnover goal was also on the team.

While the forechecker is in on Myers, the oposite side forward is cheating so far towards the goalline to take away the reverse pass. 

The 3rd Devil is at the hashmarks along the boards where Hogz should be (or as is taught in hockey at an early age)

If you watch the replay, Myers has the puck in the corner.  WHere are the forwards???? Myers first wants to reverse it to OEL but sees that he is covered.  Whats the next move? It's obviously up the boards.  WHere the hell is Hoglander though?

The play is suppsoed to be up the boards to Hogz at the sidewall, who then gives it to Miller coming off the button hook

 Anyway, I dont think its fair to dump Myers on this one.  He literally had no options.  You are never suppose to pass it from your own corner to the centre doing the buttom hook as a turnver there leads to a high danger scoring chance. If Myers doesnt reverse it, he needs to put it up the wall but Hogz wasnt there.  Who knows, maybe the Devils player called for it but watching this replay, Myers would literally need to have eyes on the back of his head to know to eat the puck as there was zero options.

 

 

 

Yep, this play is on Hoglander for vacating the zone way too early. He just went for a change. Myers threw a pass thinking (more like hoping) that the winger is still there and can clear the puck.

 

Hoglander with all his strength has some of the weaknesses of William Nylander.

 

I think he will put it together but he has a lot of work to do.

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

50 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Similar to how you see the loss as a team loss and not just on Halak, I think the Myers turnover goal was also on the team.

While the forechecker is in on Myers, the oposite side forward is cheating so far towards the goalline to take away the reverse pass. 

The 3rd Devil is at the hashmarks along the boards where Hogz should be (or as is taught in hockey at an early age)

If you watch the replay, Myers has the puck in the corner.  WHere are the forwards???? Myers first wants to reverse it to OEL but sees that he is covered.  Whats the next move? It's obviously up the boards.  WHere the hell is Hoglander though?

The play is suppsoed to be up the boards to Hogz at the sidewall, who then gives it to Miller coming off the button hook

 Anyway, I dont think its fair to dump Myers on this one.  He literally had no options.  You are never suppose to pass it from your own corner to the centre doing the buttom hook as a turnver there leads to a high danger scoring chance. If Myers doesnt reverse it, he needs to put it up the wall but Hogz wasnt there.  Who knows, maybe the Devils player called for it but watching this replay, Myers would literally need to have eyes on the back of his head to know to eat the puck as there was zero options.

 

 

 

I agree with the other stuff but not the Myers goal. In my opinion as a defender you need a plan to get that puck to safety, especially when he's got the puck and big separation. I watched it again and while not as bad as I first thought I'm getting pretty tired of him continually coughing up the puck like that. His size hurts him in that situation, he has a hard time getting pucks out of the corners because he can't pivot fast enough sometimes. He literally looks over his shoulder and puts it right on his stick. At least rifle that at hip height don't just put it on the tape. I get what you're saying to though.

[khay]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

I tell you if I was playing in this playoff race knowing Halak had a couple previous rough starts my whole focus 110% would be about getting the puck out of the zone and making sure Halak saw zero to few good shots during the game. I would approach it like I was fighting in a war. But no the OEL and Myers giveaways for goals were atrocious and inexcusable for a team that apparently had to win that game.

While I fully agree with what you say, that they should've simplified their game.

 

I sometimes wonder what these back-to-backs feel like. Probably not the same at all but I once had final exams scheduled 3 days in a row. By the time I got to the last exam, well, let's say I don't even remember what happened

 

I think the mental lapses are due to fatigue... which is more the reason to simplify the game.

 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

I had to laugh once I saw Myers positioning against Jack Hughes on the Jersey's opening goal. Straigt up embarrassing. Didn't Myers see that another Canucks player back-checking and covering the second Devil's forward. Comedy. That's comedy.

Ok bad game - rinse repeat 

Edited March 1, 2022 by IBatch

[Rick Blight]

10 minutes ago, khay said:

While I fully agree with what you say, that they should've simplified their game.

 

I sometimes wonder what these back-to-backs feel like. Probably not the same at all but I once had final exams scheduled 3 days in a row. By the time I got to the last exam, well, let's say I don't even remember what happened

 

I think the mental lapses are due to fatigue... which is more the reason to simplify the game.

 

The Canucks average 1.07 PPG (points per game) overall for this season.

The second game of back to backs they are at 0.625

 

The only teams worse than Vancouver for the second game of back to backs are:

Columbus at 0.571

New Jersey at 0.600

Buffalo at 0.600

Seattle at 0.444

 

Even more telling is Vancouver's drop from 1.07 to 0.625 (drop of 0.45 PPG) is the  third worst in the league behind Toronto and Columbus.

 

I don't think that is a group we want to be associated with so whatever management deems necessary to rectify this situation needs to be done. Good teams like Tampa and Colorado are actually better on the backend of back to backs at 1.833 and 1.857 respectively. We should not accept mental fatigue for this poor performance level IMO.

https://morehockeystats.com/teams/gamedays

 

[Codez27]

Anyone left defending halak or saying we lost because of something else other than horrific goaltending last night needs to open their eyes.

 

We were down 3-1 with momentum early in the 2nd. Then HALAK completely falls apart. Unable to play goal, react (pokecheck the fourth, do anything on the 6th), or be in the right position. 

 

Call a spade a spade. Get HALAK tf out of town. If that means making him sit in the most uncomfortable press box at rogers arena for the remainder of the season. DO IT

 

Miller's reaction on the 6th goal says everything you need to know. The team thinks he is a joke as much as the fans at this point.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Codez27

[BCNate]

46 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

LOL that's one way of looking at it

Team is so Jekyl and Hyde... Wouldn't surprise me if we salvage the week with a win  against NYI and TO. But then again, it also wouldnt surprise me if we lose both.

We cant afford to lose games we should win at this point.

Our only hope of making the playoffs is to win the games we should win and try to stay at least 500 agasint the good teams.

 

 

After beating the Leafs, Flames and Rangers, but getting rolled by the Ducks, Isles and Devils I very confused by this group.  We seem to be able get up for the big games, but really struggle with the winnable ones.  My bet is that Demko plays 24 of the last 27, with Martin getting the balance.  I think the Halak era is over here.

 

[KyGuy123]

On to the next one, if you are to lose than I’m in the opinion being embarrassed is the way to go. It keeps guys humble and fires them up for the next game. 

[Nucker 67]

5 minutes ago, BCNate said:

but getting rolled by the Ducks, Isles and Devils

Fun fact: Halak played in all 3 games  (but so did Demko)

 

ANA - Demko pulled

NYI - Halak pulled

NJ - Halak pulled

[Rick Blight]

1 hour ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

There is lots of room for criticism for all players

 

1. Halak was a sieve

 

2. Our Defense could not handle New Jerseys speed in the first half of the game

 

3. Our forwards produce very little offense last night........easy turn overs

 

4. No physicality at all, especially the forwards

 

But the biggest thing I seen last night was how the team as a whole played so much better with Demko in the nets. It was like 2 different teams, where it should not have been. IMO I did not see Demko make that many big saves, but rather, the team stepped up and their attention to detail improved dramatically. Unfortunately, the game was over. If I am BB, it is what Pisses me off most about the game. It was the difference of how the team played in front of each goalie. And it is not the first time.

 

I think the question is, are we ready to take the next step, in the next 2 years? If so, then JR needs only to tweak the roster, but, my question is with how we are constructed, regarding Cap, how do we make those tweaks? JR can certainly not rely on our farm system to give us that relief, and our cap pretty much prevents us from doing any real improvements, even if we moved enough cap space, not to tweak the defense. Aka, moving Dickenson/Poolman/Halak only gives us enough cap relief to pay Boeser, then the same problem happens the next year with Horvat and Miller, then the next year Pettersson will need a top up. The common thread in all that is, it is all forwards we are working on with our Cap.

 

This leads me to the point, that IMO, JR needs to rejig the entire team, and undo some of Benning's commitments, or we take at minimum 2 year step back, and rebuild/retool etc.

 

I think those that think Martin fixes everything, are really fooling themselves. It may improve things, but with such a small sample size in regards to Martin, I would not bank on it. And it does not fix the RHD or the 3rd line center hole, we have.

 

Too many holes in the Dike, to think we are close to being a consistent competing team. Sure a 500 team, but to take that next step, and win consistently, against top 10 opposition, I think we are a ways off, with no remedy in site.

Good summary Jan. The only other thing that I would note is the distinct lack of visible leadership on this team. Where are the leaders on the ice dictating the way we need to play to be successful? The lack of emotion out there is very concerning.

 

As for Halak, he is going to be one of a long list of backup goalies on this team that will be favorite whipping boys on CDC Demko is setting a bar that no backup can ever remotely approach and that will never satisfy CDC.

[khay]

19 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

The Canucks average 1.07 PPG (points per game) overall for this season.

The second game of back to backs they are at 0.625

 

The only teams worse than Vancouver for the second game of back to backs are:

Columbus at 0.571

New Jersey at 0.600

Buffalo at 0.600

Seattle at 0.444

 

Even more telling is Vancouver's drop from 1.07 to 0.625 (drop of 0.45 PPG) is the  third worst in the league behind Toronto and Columbus.

 

I don't think that is a group we want to be associated with so whatever management deems necessary to rectify this situation needs to be done. Good teams like Tampa and Colorado are actually better on the backend of back to backs at 1.833 and 1.857 respectively. We should not accept mental fatigue for this poor performance level IMO.

https://morehockeystats.com/teams/gamedays

 

Yep, a retool is definitely needed.

 

During the Sedins-Luongo/Schneider era, goaltending just kept us in the second of the B2B games until the 3rd period where the Sedins or Kesler would go to work and win the game.

 

This team doesn't have that experience of winning games yet.

 

I'm actually starting to question Horvat's leadership capacities. To me, he is still unexperienced and don't quite know how to lead the team to a win.

 

Other than natural leaders like Linden, Crosby, and etc, becoming a captain at such a young age may not be a good thing. Even Henrik was 29/30 when he became the captain. Nazzy also was late 20's.

 

[Rick Blight]

2 minutes ago, khay said:

Yep, a retool is definitely needed.

 

During the Sedins-Luongo/Schneider era, goaltending just kept us in the second of the B2B games until the 3rd period where the Sedins or Kesler would go to work and win the game.

 

This team doesn't have that experience of winning games yet.

 

I'm actually starting to question Horvat's leadership capacities. To me, he is still unexperienced and don't quite know how to lead the team to a win.

 

Other than natural leaders like Linden, Crosby, and etc, becoming a captain at such a young age may not be a good thing. Even Henrik was 29/30 when he became the captain. Nazzy also was late 20's.

 

I mentioned in my post above yours that I was very disappointed with the lack of visible on ice leadership last night. There was no emotion out there at all (other than Miller breaking his stick at the bench after the 4th goal). That tells me we lack leadership  on ice to demonstrate how we all need to play to be successful. We  need that guy that says "follow me" and won't accept anything less from his teammates.