Next Up - Boeser -- Re-Sign or Trade

[Gurn]

Brock was drafted 23 over all, in 2015; only 7 players drafted before him have more points.

Only 1 player drafted below him has more points.

[mikeyman109]

11 hours ago, CanuckFan1123 said:

I think Brock has a ton of value to the team and is a great asset. I wouldn’t want to trade him and I don’t know that he would command a huge amount in a trade. Best case scenario is Brock signs a 4 or 5 year deal in the 5.5-6 mil range. I think it’s fair for him and the team. The QO should not play any role as he has not lived up to it. 

the QO will play a role and if you were the player you would want to make as much as you can. This is the issue with fans talking contracts. No offense but why would a player sign for less if knows he can make more either on the QO or the open market if we walk away. Vancouver is a great place to live but so is Minnesota, LA, Anaheim, Florida.... enter your favorite here. He is not going to take a discount

[mikeyman109]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

One thing we do have a new edge with - is Allvin is not Jim Benning.   Of course he has to honour the CBA (unlike the debacle with Yashin in OTT, where he was promised one thing, a new GM came in and said no way i'm not doing that) this one's in writing.    Where Allvin has leverage is if Brock wants to remain with his pals and be part of its ascent.   If Brocks agent is a dick like last time ... arbitration and a trade is likely.   If he's not...i think Allvin would offer him a 4 year deal.  Making what he is now and that's buying two UFA years. 

 

Edit:  I really don't think Brock has earned much of a raise even on a long term deal.   He's been injured 4/5 years now.    Down the stretch twice when we could use him as well (no TT trade).... paying for his prime years comes at some risk - modest ones because of the injuries and bad summer prep or something (maybe coaching but his best season was last years - was a hint of what he could become, for sure one of or close to if not our best forward and not just points)....  

 

Brock takes one year then he's betting on himself.    A career ending injury could occur.   No contract to insure after is there?   Taking a 24-27 4-5 year deal is also in his best interest as well.  

I think the Canucks will do everything they can to negotiate a team friendly deal for Brock but ultimately a player has the right to his QO. Thats on former management not Brock.

I have a feeling he asks for his QO and the team will take him to arbitration. they can get the deal reduced and try to trade him but its always a bad look when a team uses arbitration on one of their players.

[grandmaster]

On 3/22/2022 at 9:13 AM, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

This core needs a shakeup. More players who have some bite and don’t accept losing. Winning at all costs. I am tired of having a team full of really nice guys on the ice.

Agreed we need more heart, determination and grit. Players that get angry at losing. Brock and his cap hit should be spent elsewhere. 

[EddieVedder]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

Brock was drafted 23 over all, in 2015; only 7 players drafted before him have more points.

Only 1 player drafted below him has more points.

This is beyond irrelevant.  You are talking about an event that happened 7 years ago in a draft where teams were already reluctant to take him because he was a poor skater.

[Gurn]

17 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

This is beyond irrelevant.  You are talking about an event that happened 7 years ago in a draft where teams were already reluctant to take him because he was a poor skater.

It is a historical truth.

Only 7 players above him have scored more points and only one from below him has more.

 

 

[RU SERIOUS]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

Brock was drafted 23 over all, in 2015; only 7 players drafted before him have more points.

Only 1 player drafted below him has more points.

OMG! With all due respect, that has absolutely nothing to do with his value and whether to keep or trade him.  His output cost is more relevant and currently Brock's goals cost almost five times what a goal from Chiasson cost for example and keep in mind Brock has 50% more TOI and massive PP time to get those 21 goals with top players on his side, Vs Chiasson's 12 goals playing limited minutes on a 4th line with other plumbers. (BTW, This is not an endorsement of Chiasson - either way - just a comparison)   Those ae the types of analytics that should determine what value he is.  Among Mgmt's jobs, is to get the most value per $ spent.

 

Based on that, I doubt Brock will be back next year (all his injuries and one dimensional play aside)

Edited April 24, 2022 by RU SERIOUS

[Gurn]

1 minute ago, RU SERIOUS said:

OMG! With all due respect, that has absolutely nothing to do with his value and whether to keep or trade him.  His cost per output is more relevant and currently Brock's goals cost almost five times what a goal from Chiasson cost and keep in mind Brock has 50% more TOI aand massive PP time to get those 21 goals. Vs Chiasson.    Those types of analytics are what should determine what value he is.  Among Mgmt's jobs, is to get the most value per $ spent.

Yah, it actually has a lot to do with keeping him or what he is going to re-sign for.

Dollar value per point does not take away the fact he has only been out scored by 8 players in his draft class.

[RU SERIOUS]

14 minutes ago, gurn said:

Yah, it actually has a lot to do with keeping him or what he is going to re-sign for.

Dollar value per point does not take away the fact he has only been out scored by 8 players in his draft class.

Fair enough but I highly doubt that will factor in to Mgmt's decsion making process on Brock and the their analytical assessments of player value.

Edited April 24, 2022 by RU SERIOUS

[EddieVedder]

5 minutes ago, gurn said:

Yah, it actually has a lot to do with keeping him or what he is going to re-sign for.

Dollar value per point does not take away the fact he has only been out scored by 8 players in his draft class.

Not even brocks agent would be dumb enough to bring this irrelevant point up in negotiations. 

[Gurn]

Just now, EddieVedder said:

Not even brocks agent would be dumb enough to bring this irrelevant point up in negotiations. 

I don't believe we know each other well enough for you to insult me.

 

Congrats though on being the first to make this years ignore list.

[IBatch]

23 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

OMG! With all due respect, that has absolutely nothing to do with his value and whether to keep or trade him.  His output cost is more relevant and currently Brock's goals cost almost five times what a goal from Chiasson cost for example and keep in mind Brock has 50% more TOI and massive PP time to get those 21 goals with top players on his side, Vs Chiasson's 12 goals playing limited minutes on a 4th line with other plumbers. (BTW, This is not an endorsement of Chiasson - either way - just a comparison)   Those ae the types of analytics that should determine what value he is.  Among Mgmt's jobs, is to get the most value per $ spent.

 

Based on that, I doubt Brock will be back next year (all his injuries and one dimensional play aside)

Dude what games are you watching?   Wasn't Chia a regular on the first unit with Green for awhile?   I sure remember the screaming.   Aside from a small streak near the end of the season almost doubling his stats, Chia has been bashed around on this site all season.  His injuries for sure are a concern.  Team needs to pay him like a 50-60 point player.   If they can't or won't, take him to arbitration.    That's more then Garlands making BTW.   But not much. 

[RU SERIOUS]

On 4/24/2022 at 10:35 AM, RU SERIOUS said:

OMG! With all due respect, that has absolutely nothing to do with his value and whether to keep or trade him.  His output cost is more relevant and currently Brock's goals cost almost five times what a goal from Chiasson cost for example and keep in mind Brock has 50% more TOI and massive PP time to get those 21 goals with top players on his side, Vs Chiasson's 12 goals playing limited minutes on a 4th line with other plumbers. (BTW, This is not an endorsement of Chiasson - either way - just a comparison)   Those ae the types of analytics that should determine what value he is.  Among Mgmt's jobs, is to get the most value per $ spent.

 

Based on that, I doubt Brock will be back next year (all his injuries and one dimensional play aside)

 

59 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Dude what games are you watching?   Wasn't Chia a regular on the first unit with Green for awhile?   I sure remember the screaming.   Aside from a small streak near the end of the season almost doubling his stats, Chia has been bashed around on this site all season.  His injuries for sure are a concern.  Team needs to pay him like a 50-60 point player.   If they can't or won't, take him to arbitration.    That's more then Garlands making BTW.   But not much. 

As I said.......................................("This is not an endorsement of Chiasson - either way - just a comparison")     That was the only purpose of randomly choosing Chiasson, to point out that Brocks goal output is very costly and does not warrant a $7.8M qualifying offer..  I could have chosen any number of other Canucks and got the same or worse results showing brocks cost/per goal are out of whack presently and certainly do not justify a raise of any sort. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by RU SERIOUS

[IBatch]

Just now, RU SERIOUS said:

 

As I said.......................................("This is not an endorsement of Chiasson - either way - just a comparison")     That was the only purpose of randomly choosing Chiasson, to point out that Brocks goal output is very costly and does not warrant a $7.8M qualifying offer..  I could have chosen any number of other Canucks and got the same or worse results showing brocks goials are a very expensive propposition and his cost/per goal is completely out of whack presently and certainly do not justify a raise of any sort. 

RU Vedder?  I can't tell.  

[BPA]

WPG Ehlers is making $6M and puts up similar numbers to Boeser (basically a 20+ g / 50-60pt winger).

Think Boeser value is in that ballpark.  Can’t see it being any higher.  Maybe $6M x 5yrs or $5.75M x 8yrs.

 

[BC_Hawk]

4 hours ago, BPA said:

WPG Ehlers is making $6M and puts up similar numbers to Boeser (basically a 20+ g / 50-60pt winger).

Think Boeser value is in that ballpark.  Can’t see it being any higher.  Maybe $6M x 5yrs or $5.75M x 8yrs.

 

It’s not just about comparable; it is about value to the team. That 6m is WAY more valuable to spend elsewhere, or on more impactful players. I’d rather we spend 4-4.5m on a big fast LW for Petey with less scoring prowless. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by BC_Hawk

[DownUndaCanuck]

Boeser has become this team's whipping boy sadly and it's because he doesn't skate as well as some of the other guys (Garland for example is a prime comparative), but I think it's mainly because of his QO price tag. If he didn't have that, and we could just re-sign him for 5M x 5 years, no one would have an issue with him.

 

I think it's just a year we have to bite the bullet and pay him because of how JB and his agent wanted to keep him an RFA (and they thought he'd be worth 7.5M+ by now). Fact is that he's taking longer but I think the ceiling is still sky-high for Brock. He's still young, a big strong body and has top-end offensive IQ and a shot that many around the league talk about by now.

 

Speak to Pittsburgh fans and see what they think about Boeser. When you watch other team's broadcasts they always talk about Brock's wrist shot. It's only really amongst his own fans that he cops so much hate and I think that's because of his qualifying offer. To be fair, watching him nightly, he doesn't bring energy or lift the tempo the way some other guys do, but he is a born finisher and these are hard to come by. Garland is an interesting comparative - the kid plays with so much energy and heart, but can go snake-bitten and whiffs on a lot of golden chances. 

 

I'm of the feeling that Boeser is a rare find - if we persist with him and harness his potential he could easily become a 30-40 goal scorer in this league. Mark my words if we trade him (especially to Pittsburgh), he'll find his rhythm. He doesn't need a change of scenery, he just needs a consistent coach and more time.

 

Under Bruce, the last 41 games, he's scored 14 goals. That's a 28 goal pace. Sure he's been injured a bunch, but when you look at his goal-paces during the seasons, this is what he's been scoring at:

- 38 goal pace in sophmore season

- 30 goal pace the next year

- 23 goal pace the next year (a rough one for everyone)

- 33 goal pace the next year

- 25 goal pace this year

 

Sure, that's not a 7.5M player, but he's not worth trading or giving up on now. I say sign him to his QO, take the hit, but it's also a bit of a "show-me" bridge contract because his next deal should be a long one based on his play. If he's still only hovering around the 20-30 goal mark then fine, sign him to a Garland-like 5M x 5 year deal and we can't complain - that's pretty decent. If he somehow blows up for 30+ goals and 70+ points then he earns a bit of a pay rise.

 

Trading him now (or worse, not signing him) would just end up being one of the big mistakes we make along the way. I remember when we got rid of Grabner for no good reason and he went on to score 34 goals the next year (he really faded after that though). I think Boeser would hurt us a lot more if we let him go.

 

Cap-wise there's always a solution. Flip the useless Dickinson or Poolman for picks/future considerations. We get Luongo's 3M off the books. There is a way to find the extra space.

 

Last but not least, what impact would losing Brock have on Petey, Hughes and Bo who have basically grown up in the NHL playing with him?

 

[erkayloomeh]

On 4/24/2022 at 10:24 AM, mikeyman109 said:

the QO will play a role and if you were the player you would want to make as much as you can. This is the issue with fans talking contracts. No offense but why would a player sign for less if knows he can make more either on the QO or the open market if we walk away. Vancouver is a great place to live but so is Minnesota, LA, Anaheim, Florida.... enter your favorite here. He is not going to take a discount

A player might sign for less than his qualifying offer if he isn't worth that much, knows it,  and has integrity. Especially in a cap world where taking up to much cap van affect your teammates.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, erkayloomeh said:

A player might sign for less than his qualifying offer if he isn't worth that much, knows it,  and has integrity. Especially in a cap world where taking up to much cap van affect your teammates.

Brock should take something around 6x6 or 7 years. Its the long term certainty and locked in future for him and his family that should matter the most, not a one-off one year payment that isn't justified. 

[erkayloomeh]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

Brock should take something around 6x6 or 7 years. Its the long term certainty and locked in future for him and his family that should matter the most, not a one-off one year payment that isn't justified. 

The thing with Boeser is, that 6by6 could be a heck of a deal.....or completely bite us in the ass. It seems we never know what we are going to get from him.