[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at St. Louis Blues | Mar. 28, 2022

[IBatch]

14 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

That’s not how it works though.  Because of the qualifying offer Boeser has no need to take the team to arbitration.  The team is required to offer him his $7.5m to retain his rights.  If they don’t feel he’s worth that they have 3 options.
 

Negotiate a deal with him for less than that.  any deal would likely include term and money over $6m.  There’s no incentive for him to accept less.   If he doesn’t like the deal he can just dig in his heels on the QO. That guarantee’s him $7.5m  for each of the next 2 seasons (assuming the same outcome next summer) and then UFA status. He doesn’t have to elect arbitration to get that.  
 

If the team doesn’t want to qualify him at the QO THEY can take him to arbitration. A player can only be subjected to team elected  arbitration once in his career.  The arbitrator could award an amount as low as $6.35m but Boeser would choose between 1-2 years. He’d likely choose 2 years and walk to free agency. 
 

Or the team can simply not qualify him and he becomes UFA.  

 

There’s really no option where the team holds the hammer in forcing him to take a deal he’s not happy with.  He’s a young professional athlete. I’m sure he’s not happy with his season but I’d bet he’s more than willing to bet on himself, take the guaranteed $15m for the next 2 seasons and prove he’s worth it over that time.  
 

His AAV is already $5.875m (with just actual salary being $7.5m this year). Anyone expecting him to take less than $5.85m, even with term, is likely going to be disappointed 
 

 

It's exactly what i'm saying.   The team can negotiate - as in offer him a deal - i'm suggesting a 4/5 year deal worth 25-27 or possibly a full term deal worth 45-50 guaranteed money - if he doesn't like it then file for arbitration.   We still retain his rights for two more seasons - and his comps wont give him his 7.5 ... more likely 6.375 x 1 maybe 2.   Yes to free agency.   Then then the team will probably trade him.   Possibly with retention. 

 

Edit:  There are a lot of incentives for him to take less.   Injury's are one.   Further regression is another. Comps of course even more so.    He hasn't earned his QO and he knows it.   All he's really earned is a 4-5 year deal.   It's not nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.   And it's the team that drafted him - he's got reasons to be reasonable.    He could be injured and no UFA contract at all for one. 

 

Edit: You can bet Mier will be going through the same thing too.  10 million?  Lol well he'd better score 100 next year.   Covid screwed the cap going up.   

Edited March 29, 2022 by IBatch

[ShawnAntoski]

Just now, NUCKER67 said:

"shoulder shrug" Boeser should be traded for a RD. 

 

Miller is almost 30 and some games looks like he's 40. Real good player, but not the future IMO.  Get a haul of young players and picks.

Yeah, his physical style of play will not age well.   Hopefully, in the offseason, Allvin can find a buyer.

[qwijibo]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

It's exactly what i'm saying.   The team can negotiate - as in offer him a deal - i'm suggesting a 4/5 year deal worth 25-27 or possibly a full term deal worth 45-50 guaranteed money - if he doesn't like it then file for arbitration.   We still retain his rights for two more seasons - and his comps wont give him his 7.5 ... more likely 6.375 x 2.   Yes to free agency.   Then then the team will probably trade him.  

I guess I’m just sticking on language.  There’s no situation where he needs to file for arbitration. He already has the power with the qualifying offer.  If arbitration is the outcome it’s the team that has to file for it.  Which gives him the power to choose between 1/2 years.  
 

I do agree that a 4-5 year deal with and AAV of $6.35 +\- $100k is something he’d agree to. I don’t see any circumstance where he signs a deal for less than his current AAV. So people wanting a deal for $4.5-$5.5m AAV should just put that dream to bed 

[NHTyrany]

8 hours ago, NorthWestNuck said:

Hundred percent agree. If the Canucks miss the playoffs, it won’t be because of the next 14 games. It will be because of the first what, 20 games? 25? The Canucks dug a hole so deep that as valiant as they’ve tried since BB took over it was too late.

Not just the Green era but the lack of drive and might at home all season long. This team, much to BB's disappointment, truly crapped the bed when playing at home. I can't put my finger on it but being too small/soft is a factor. But it's more than that, it's like they get distracted by all the media and family stuff and forget about game prep. and performance. I doubt having more size and grit this year would have lessoned our point totals. But Instead we seemed fixated by small and speedy and finesse guys who are easily pushed off the puck and prone to injury. We need to suck for the next 2 or years to shed dead wood and beef up our team. That suck because of Demko's contract. I still think back to those games at the end of the season with the twins where we were out of contention but still pushed hard to win, only to screw our odds at #1 picks. At least MTL knows when to throw in the towel and rebuild.

[IBatch]

21 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

"shoulder shrug" Boeser should be traded for a RD. 

 

Miller is almost 30 and some games looks like he's 40. Real good player, but not the future IMO.  Get a haul of young players and picks.

Miller looks like he's 25 to me.   What's up with the silly little baby porn-stache? No greys ... no lines.   No battle scars.  Tim Hunter looked like he was 40 when he was his age.  

[NHTyrany]

12 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

I guess I’m just sticking on language.  There’s no situation where he needs to file for arbitration. He already has the power with the qualifying offer.  If arbitration is the outcome it’s the team that has to file for it.  Which gives him the power to choose between 1/2 years.  
 

 

If he would use that ripped body to gain position and lay hits to create space, I would be OK with 6+ but unless he's currently injured, he plays way too soft and slow to be worth more than Pearson.

[qwijibo]

1 minute ago, NHTyrany said:

If he would use that ripped body to gain position and lay hits to create space, I would be OK with 6+ but unless he's currently injured, he plays way too soft and slow to be worth more than Pearson.

I’m not saying he’s worth $6m+.  I’m saying his contract has him in a position where there’s no incentive for him to accept less than that.  Despite his play this season he still holds most of the bargaining power.  

[hammertime]

12 hours ago, MikeyD said:

Me too. I'm crossing my fingers he figures it out. 

I think hes well on his way in this regard. It's easy to forget just how young Podkol is still. ROR took time to become the player he is. 

 

I'd like to keep Pod with Miller for the foreseeable future. 

[IBatch]

24 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

I guess I’m just sticking on language.  There’s no situation where he needs to file for arbitration. He already has the power with the qualifying offer.  If arbitration is the outcome it’s the team that has to file for it.  Which gives him the power to choose between 1/2 years.  
 

I do agree that a 4-5 year deal with and AAV of $6.35 +\- $100k is something he’d agree to. I don’t see any circumstance where he signs a deal for less than his current AAV. So people wanting a deal for $4.5-$5.5m AAV should just put that dream to bed 

He gets to decide that's for sure.   But it's not like the team doesn't have options either.   The player almost always files for arbitration because they don't like the deal.   This is a rare case because the cap didn't go up - that the team can and likely will - file for arbitration if Brock doesn't get a deal he likes.   Brock hasn't played himself into a much of a raise ... the cap will only go up a million a year for the duration of the current CBA.   It's a fairly big risk to sign him to a 6 plus term deal.    Hasn't earned it.   I'd be fine with 1-2 years of a mediators deal.   Brock also has to take it.    25-27 4/5 year deal is over 6 for four years and under six for five about what he's making now - that's what i'm proposing is a fair deal.   Look at his comps!   He hasn't scored 30 yet - and has two good years.   All partial ones as well - and his entire career he's played on a first unit PP except for the first four weeks.   This year was a contract year and look at how he's played.   Not good enough for a deal better then that.  We'd be better off letting someone else deal with the problem and the cap space then not taking HIM to arbitrators if he won't sign a reasonable deal.   Can always retain and trade ... OR just let him walk.   Last time his agent wanted the moon on a long term deal.    He's been paid for his rookie season and his potential..  let someone else worry about him if he won't sign a reasonable deal. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by IBatch

[Nucker 67]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Miller looks like he's 25 to me.   What's up with the silly little baby porn-stache? No greys ... no lines.   No battle scars.  Tim Hunter looked like he was 40 when he was his age.  

When Miller is on he's a deadly scorer and playmaker, but he doesn't really get involved with the physical stuff. I thought Bo would be a physical player, with his stocky build, but no. He's a nice boy. Myers could crush opponents, but he's the Friendly Giant. His specialty is taking penalties. The only tough guy on the team makes under $800K and is in his 30s. So much work to do.  

 

Garland

Hoglander

Rathbone

Hunt

 

all Smurfs

[lmm]

13 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

regulation loss hurts.

 

Oilers play a tired Yotes right now and are up a goal and LA plays Seattle later.

score board watching is only fun when your team does their part

[Alflives]

52 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

That’s not how it works though.  Because of the qualifying offer Boeser has no need to take the team to arbitration.  The team is required to offer him his $7.5m to retain his rights.  If they don’t feel he’s worth that they have 3 options.
 

Negotiate a deal with him for less than that.  any deal would likely include term and money over $6m.  There’s no incentive for him to accept less.   If he doesn’t like the deal he can just dig in his heels on the QO. That guarantee’s him $7.5m  for each of the next 2 seasons (assuming the same outcome next summer) and then UFA status. He doesn’t have to elect arbitration to get that.  
 

If the team doesn’t want to qualify him at the QO THEY can take him to arbitration. A player can only be subjected to team elected  arbitration once in his career.  The arbitrator could award an amount as low as $6.35m but Boeser would choose between 1-2 years. He’d likely choose 2 years and walk to free agency. 
 

Or the team can simply not qualify him and he becomes UFA.  

 

There’s really no option where the team holds the hammer in forcing him to take a deal he’s not happy with.  He’s a young professional athlete. I’m sure he’s not happy with his season but I’d bet he’s more than willing to bet on himself, take the guaranteed $15m for the next 2 seasons and prove he’s worth it over that time.  
 

His AAV is already $5.875m (with just actual salary being $7.5m this year). Anyone expecting him to take less than $5.85m, even with term, is likely going to be disappointed 
 

 

What did Kotkaniemi take with his new deal?  

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

When Miller is on he's a deadly scorer and playmaker, but he doesn't really get involved with the physical stuff. I thought Bo would be a physical player, with his stocky build, but no. He's a nice boy. Myers could crush opponents, but he's the Friendly Giant. His specialty is taking penalties. The only tough guy on the team makes under $800K and is in his 30s. So much work to do.  

 

Garland

Hoglander

Rathbone

Hunt

 

all Smurfs

Point, Goudreau, and Marchand are Smurfs.  Smurfs either need to put up lots of points, or be nasty.  Both is best, of course.

[IBatch]

57 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

When Miller is on he's a deadly scorer and playmaker, but he doesn't really get involved with the physical stuff. I thought Bo would be a physical player, with his stocky build, but no. He's a nice boy. Myers could crush opponents, but he's the Friendly Giant. His specialty is taking penalties. The only tough guy on the team makes under $800K and is in his 30s. So much work to do.  

 

Garland

Hoglander

Rathbone

Hunt

 

all Smurfs

Get it - but it's also way things have been trending since the lockout.   Could take most teams and say the exact same things. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

He gets to decide that's for sure.   But it's not like the team doesn't have options either.   The player almost always files for arbitration because they don't like the deal.   This is a rare case because the cap didn't go up - that the team can and likely will - file for arbitration if Brock doesn't get a deal he likes.   Brock hasn't played himself into a much of a raise ... the cap will only go up a million a year for the duration of the current CBA.   It's a fairly big risk to sign him to a 6 plus term deal.    Hasn't earned it.   I'd be fine with 1-2 years of a mediators deal.   Brock also has to take it.    25-27 4/5 year deal is over 6 for four years and under six for five about what he's making now - that's what i'm proposing is a fair deal.   Look at his comps!   He hasn't scored 30 yet - and has two good years.   All partial ones as well - and his entire career he's played on a first unit PP except for the first four weeks.   This year was a contract year and look at how he's played.   Not good enough for a deal better then that.  We'd be better off letting someone else deal with the problem and the cap space then not taking HIM to arbitrators if he won't sign a reasonable deal.   Can always retain and trade ... OR just let him walk.   Last time his agent wanted the moon on a long term deal.    He's been paid for his rookie season and his potential..  let someone else worry about him if he won't sign a reasonable deal. 

Exactly how I feel. 

 

He's got no one to blame but himself and his agent.  They've already shown unwillingness to fall within an internal cap structure, I have no reason to believe that they would ever give us a hometown discount in the future. 

 

[DrJockitch]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Point, Goudreau, and Marchand are Smurfs.  Smurfs either need to put up lots of points, or be nasty.  Both is best, of course.

Need size to make room for the smurfs to work. You can have them and they can be valuable but you can’t have a team full of them.

[Nucker 67]

9 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Need size to make room for the smurfs to work. You can have them and they can be valuable but you can’t have a team full of them.

As long as they have a Smurfy attitude and have fun! - well, everyone except for Grouchy anyway

 

I've noticed the struggle for the smaller players, especially against teams like STL and MIN. If the Canucks are serious about playoffs, they need to get tougher. Maybe then they'll get some swagger. 

[Nucker 67]

Thinking about the Garland to NJ for Zacha+ trade proposal.

I wouldn't mind this.

[JoshuaGuy]

3 hours ago, JM_ said:

it is. That Green start to the year was always going to be hard to get over. 3 more wins under that Green coaching staff and we're still right in the middle of this, thats how close things are. 

Hell, if they beat Buffalo and Detroit last week, they'd be looking at 9-5 right now instead of 11-3.

[Smashian Kassian]

15 hours ago, J-23 said:

You build around Pettersson and Hughes.

 

I'd add Horvat too. He can elevate his game in the playoffs. Freidman always says "theres guys that get you in & guys that get your through". 

 

Id say Horvat is the latter.