[Proposal] Boeser is the odd man out - 8 year projection!

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, kloubek said:

He may well be, but he doesn't produce. I am all on board for bringing in heavy players, but they have to be able to contribute if they are placed on anything other than the 4th line - and even then, it'd be nice to see guys on the 4th who can pot more than a dozen points a season if possible.

 

As for a top 4 RHD, I personally see Myers as a poor-man's top 4. He can eat minutes, sure, but he doesn't consistently bring a lot to the table other than his size. He's an "OK" defender. He can contribute offensively as well, but only sometimes. And while he is good at leaning on guys and taking them out of the play, he isn't consistent with his physical game, and tends to take penalties he wouldn't have to if he was just a bit... well, better. And still, all that would be just fine if he wasn't being paid 6m, but he is - so I think it's not just the averageness of his ability, but moreso the expense that's what keeps his contract from holding any value. I certainly don't see the return you suggest.

Maybe Lockwood is the guy that moves up to the 3rd line and Deslauriers on the 4th?  I think Lockwood has some offensive potential.

 

I think you rate Roslovic really high in terms of value, but here's why I don't:

1. He's an RFA due for a raise this year

2. He has actually regressed from last year, no different than Boeser, but he doesn't put up nearly the same amount of offence. 

3. Heck, Myers' offensive output isn't even that far off from Roslovic, and he's a defenceman haha

 

Anyways, here's Roslovic's stats... I think Myers is worth Roslovic 1-for-1 easily.

 

[HKSR]

5 minutes ago, BPA said:

No retention please.

Why not though?  It has almost no impact on the overall picture assuming we rid ourselves of guys like Poolman and Dickinson. 

[BPA]

55 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Why not though?  It has almost no impact on the overall picture assuming we rid ourselves of guys like Poolman and Dickinson. 

Only as a last resort.

 

Cap space is KING.

[HKSR]

Just now, BPA said:

Only as a last resort.

 

Cap space is KING.

We would still have millions upon millions of cap space in my scenario though.  Enough to take advantage of other team's cap issues and then some.

[smithers joe]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

I'd say there's grit on every forward line, and grit on every defence pairing.  Toughness doesn't need to mean dropping the gloves.  In my opinion, it means 'not putting up with sh*t"... there's plenty in that lineup that wouldn't put up with sh*t, and you have Deslauriers and Schenn to back you up.

 

Who in that forward group do you feel is lacking speed? other than Pearson?

they want to get faster up front. does these guys fill that bill. don't want them to just rearrange the deck chairs. highmore, lammikko and lockwood have good speed. a few others do too, like petey and hughes.

[JM_]

3 hours ago, gurn said:

With Horvat, Pearson and Hoglander out; it is hard to be too sad about Chiasson being next man up.

it is for me, I'd rather give Lockwood the time. 

[JM_]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

How about if we manage to sign Manson, then trade Myers to Columbus for Roslovic?  CLB needs some serious RHD help.

 

Podkolzin-Petey-Hoglander

Garland-Miller-Roslovic

Pearson-Bo-Deslauriers

Highmore-Lamikko-Lockwood

 

Hughes-Manson

OEL-Marino

Dermott-Schenn

Burroughs

 

Hells yes!  Every forward has speed (other than Pearson).  Much needed grit with Deslauriers and Manson added too.

 

nice idea, but he's from there and they love him. 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

This is what I think the Canucks want to do, from their comments:

 

- build a young core and get faster

- add / build up the prospect pool

- clear cap space

- get a superstar

 

I hope they make big changes this off season so this stuff happens. And re-signing Miller goes against all of it. 

They already have a young core.  Petey, Hughes, Demko and Podkolzin is their core.  Horvat is still relatively young and a 30 goal scorer.  Plus they have some other younger players already here or on their way in Höglander, Rathbone, Karlsson and Klimovich.  They also have good support players in Garland, Lammikko and Highmore.  

 

They already have a superstar in Petey.  There is no denying it now as his numbers the last 35 games are on par with the top 5 players in the league.

 

As for Miller, you don't win a Stanley Cup with a bunch of 25 year old players.  Every Stanley Cup champion has had veteran players and leadership.  Miller at 31 or even 32 isn't that old.  The Sedins were almost 31 when they went to the finals.  Luongo was also 31.

 

JR said he wanted to be a contender in 2 years.  That puts Miller at 31/32.  Almost the same as Luongo and the Sedins.  There is no mention of tearing this thing down other than from some media pundits.  Until I hear the words coming from JR's mouth I will not believe that we are tearing this whole thing down.

[YEGCanuck]

Looks like you've given this some serious thought and here's some feedback.

 

First, I don't know Marino however that price sounds a little like an over-pay. Second, I would love to have Miller return for 5 years at eight point five, otherwise the term is too long. 

[Highstickin]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

We would still have millions upon millions of cap space in my scenario though.  Enough to take advantage of other team's cap issues and then some.

There is only one reason to use cap space to take advantage of other teams, gain assets during a rebuild, and I don't think that is the case for this team. 

 

Getting other teams out of cap issues means taking on bad contracts they signed for players that are underperforming which is just what we are digging ourselves out of now. I would much rather use our cap dollars to pay players that can actually produce the way we need them to. Other than Florida, who will pay for their dead cap shortly, no other contender has much retained or buried. Just ask the Yotes how that strategy is working out for them.

[HKSR]

13 minutes ago, Highstickin said:

There is only one reason to use cap space to take advantage of other teams, gain assets during a rebuild, and I don't think that is the case for this team. 

 

Getting other teams out of cap issues means taking on bad contracts they signed for players that are underperforming which is just what we are digging ourselves out of now. I would much rather use our cap dollars to pay players that can actually produce the way we need them to. Other than Florida, who will pay for their dead cap shortly, no other contender has much retained or buried. Just ask the Yotes how that strategy is working out for them.

I'm thinking more like a team like Tampa when they were wanting to unload cap because they couldn't afford to keep JT Miller...  it's not necessarily bad contracts, but rather players that they may deem expendable, but are still effective hockey players.

 

Looking at Tampa again, they're in cap hell for next year.  They need another defenceman, and 2 more forwards to fill their roster, but they basically have no cap space.  Could Cirelli or Sergachev be made available?

[eeeeergh]

2 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

We have room to keep Boeser, but I do think that he will be used to plug other holes.

 

My really basic prediction is that Boeser and Myers will both be moved this offseason for cap space and a more balanced lineup. We'll hit camp in September with a much more defined top and bottom 6 as well as redefined RD coverage.

Agree with this 100%. 

[kloubek]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

Maybe Lockwood is the guy that moves up to the 3rd line and Deslauriers on the 4th?  I think Lockwood has some offensive potential.

 

I think Myers is worth Roslovic 1-for-1 easily.

Maybe Lockwood is. I actually really liked his play. He is fast, and very high energy - though he tends to move at a pace his mind can't quite keep up with quite yet, and tends to produce giveaways and make poor passes as a result. But he does seem to have the potential to put it all together, so I could see that as a possibility. 

 

I'm still not sold on the possibility of Myers for Roslovic, though I appreciate your conviction and your point about a pay increase - which I agree he will get.  But I'm not sure I'm any more convinced there is a direct 1-for-1 trade possibility. In fact, the suggestion that Myer's offensive output isn't far off of Roslovic's seems like a wildly incorrect claim in my opinion. This season, Myer's sports a .23ppg. Roslovic: .53. That's a 130% more ppg. Yes, of course you're right, he's a forward and not a defenseman but that's still a pretty big discrepancy if we are using offensive production to dictate the worth of these two guys. I would further argue that at only 25, Roslovic still has the ability to improve. Myers is only likely to regress by this point.

It isn't so much that I value Roslovic particularly high (although I believe higher than you do), but more that I just don't see the value presented by Myers at his current salary - even IF he's a sought after RH shot.

[HKSR]

49 minutes ago, kloubek said:

Maybe Lockwood is. I actually really liked his play. He is fast, and very high energy - though he tends to move at a pace his mind can't quite keep up with quite yet, and tends to produce giveaways and make poor passes as a result. But he does seem to have the potential to put it all together, so I could see that as a possibility. 

 

I'm still not sold on the possibility of Myers for Roslovic, though I appreciate your conviction and your point about a pay increase - which I agree he will get.  But I'm not sure I'm any more convinced there is a direct 1-for-1 trade possibility. In fact, the suggestion that Myer's offensive output isn't far off of Roslovic's seems like a wildly incorrect claim in my opinion. This season, Myer's sports a .23ppg. Roslovic: .53. That's a 130% more ppg. Yes, of course you're right, he's a forward and not a defenseman but that's still a pretty big discrepancy if we are using offensive production to dictate the worth of these two guys. I would further argue that at only 25, Roslovic still has the ability to improve. Myers is only likely to regress by this point.

It isn't so much that I value Roslovic particularly high (although I believe higher than you do), but more that I just don't see the value presented by Myers at his current salary - even IF he's a sought after RH shot.

Fair enough, thanks for the thoughtful banter

[wildcam]

7 hours ago, JM_ said:

If we can get Marino, I think we can trade Myers and use that cap to upgrade that F group. Chiasson in the top 6 makes me sad. 

 

7 hours ago, HKSR said:

Ok, this might be my best one yet...

 

To PIT:

Boeser

Poolman ($750k retained)

3rd Round Pick

 

To VAN:
Marino

 

The Penguins get a perennial 20-25 (maybe 30) goal scorer, Poolman at a very palatable $1.750M AAV RHD, and a sweetener in the 3rd round pick.

The Canucks get a very nicely cost controlled Tanev-lite RHD in Marino.  They have also unloaded Boeser and most of Poolman's cap hit for much needed cap space.

 

Now to the projections:

 

Assuming the cap goes up by $1M per year for the next 3 years, then a very conservative $2M per year after that (after escrow taken care of in 2024-25)...

 

$8.5M x 8 for Miller

$7M AAV for Horvat

$9M AAV for Petey

Dickinson traded while retaining $750k.  He becomes MUCH more tradeable at a $1.9M cap hit for 2 years.

Sign Nic Deslauriers for $2.5M for 3 years.  After seeing him last night, he's exactly what we need in the bottom 6.  Would take a huge load off of Schenn.

 

As you can see, we keep our competitive advantage of having Miller, Petey, and Horvat down the middle (three 30-goal scoring centres).

TONS and TONS of cap space to play with, and that's WITH a significant Miller extension.  When the window finally blows wide open in 2 or 3 years, we have MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of cap room to work with to improve on the already great core of players that are here.

 

The window is open now folks.

 

Podkolzin-Petey-Hoglander

Garland-Miller-Chiasson

Pearson-Bo-Deslauriers

Highmore-Lamikko-Lockwood

 

Hughes-Marino

OEL-Schenn

Dermott-Myers

 

Defensively responsible guy on each pairing with an offensively minded partner.

 

Chiasson way to slow for top 6 forward..New management team want to be faster..

Tough guy Deslauriers 31 years old at 2.5 million playing on 3rd line? So 15 points was his best season 2014 season?Would not sign him for 2.5 million...Maybe 1.5 million X 3 yrs tops. He should play 12--14 mins with PK depending on game..He can take penalties..He can play PK

 

Boeser 25 will be a 23--30 G - guy for next 6 years.. I would not be giving up a 3rd rounder. in the deal..

Boeser 6'1, 25   for Marino 6'1 ( 25 May)  RD 4 million X 5 yrs---- 

I think Poolman, 26 6'2, RD would be easy to trade if we retain 700,000.. #5 guy and RD are hard to find..

[Nucker 67]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

They already have a young core.  Petey, Hughes, Demko and Podkolzin is their core.

I'm thinking they might want to add to that. Hopefully JR/PA have an excellent Draft, maybe acquire another 1st

[Highstickin]

28 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I'm thinking more like a team like Tampa when they were wanting to unload cap because they couldn't afford to keep JT Miller...  it's not necessarily bad contracts, but rather players that they may deem expendable, but are still effective hockey players.

 

Looking at Tampa again, they're in cap hell for next year.  They need another defenceman, and 2 more forwards to fill their roster, but they basically have no cap space.  Could Cirelli or Sergachev be made available?

Ok fair I agree with targeting the players that cap strapped teams can't afford to keep. Unfortunately for the canucks roster, I don't know how many players we have that those types of teams would want in a trade. 

 

If you were running Tampa and were up against the cap needing to move some talented young players what would you be asking for in return? I'm thinking probably picks, prospects, ELC players, productive vets on team friendly contracts? In terms of Van, I don't think we really have any of these available to use as trade bait. 

[BPA]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

I'm thinking more like a team like Tampa when they were wanting to unload cap because they couldn't afford to keep JT Miller...  it's not necessarily bad contracts, but rather players that they may deem expendable, but are still effective hockey players.

 

Looking at Tampa again, they're in cap hell for next year.  They need another defenceman, and 2 more forwards to fill their roster, but they basically have no cap space.  Could Cirelli or Sergachev be made available?

I thought about TB before but a poster mentioned that they are not in bad shape since the can let Palat ($5.3M) go to UFA and then sign some cheap depth players.

[Phil_314]

From Pittsburgh's perspective, I'm not sure why they do it...
- Letang (their top RHD) is a pending UFA; if they move him and take on Boeser and Poolman's money while shedding Marino, their RHD looks pretty thin
- even if they intend to let Rakell walk as UFA, if they do the same for Malkin and Letang then they might have depth issues (Sid and Carter aren't getting any younger as their #1 and #2 C, and I already addressed their RHD issue)

I get that the Pens are one of the teams that likes to shuffle things around with big moves, but adding another big ticket winger when they already have so many (Guentzel, Zucker, Rust [probably re-sign?], Kapanen [probably can be a top-6 winger?], among others) just seems a bit extra IMO.

[Nucker 67]

How much of a raise will Matt Tkachuk get?  Wouldn't that be wild if Allvin offer-sheeted him?.  

 

The cost would probably be two 1st round picks, a 2nd and a 3rd.  Highly unlikely something like this happens, but if he wants a superstar added to the young core...