[PGT] Seattle Kraken at Vancouver Canucks | Apr. 26, 2022

[CanucksJay]

13 minutes ago, stawns said:

do you realize what hockey would look like if there were no "game management"?  It would be unwatchable

I would probably be a bigger fan if there was no game management. 

This is sports. There shouldn't be such a thing. If I wanted to watch "sports entertainment" I'd watch WWE. 

If that means some US markets lose their teams due to poor attendance, so be it. 

I love watching games in Arizona because it's so cheap but they really shouldn't have a franchise. 

Vegas on the other hand makes sense. 

 

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, Muttley said:

Penalty for over utilization  of the smiley feature . Theoretically, he could better his point (both goals and assists) totals at 32 years old. Why not?

 

1 minute ago, Muttley said:

Penalty for over utilization  of the smiley feature . Theoretically, he could better his point (both goals and assists) totals at 32 years old. Why not?

He could also beat Gretzky at 36 and get 215 points. Do you guys like even attempt to live in the real world at all? Like c'mon that's bat$&!# crazy. Clearly not a very deep understanding of the NHL historically.

[Mo Grit]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

do you realize what hockey would look like if there were no "game management"?  It would be unwatchable

We saw an extremely unwatchable second period last game.

Seemed like game management to me.

Be fair though, hockey's appeal is all about a physical challenge.

Some kind of penalty could be called every minute, if a ref lacks 'game' intuition

and sticks to a by-the-book bean-counter style.

Is there an independent body existing, not controlled by ownership interests, which evaluates ref performance?

Yet, even when something similar exists (FIFA) refs very often appear to have been plucked from the crowd, last minute.

The best refs posses a natural ability to find a balance between rules and common sense.

 

[RUPERTKBD]

6 hours ago, Fan since 82 said:

If games were called properly players would know what a penalty was at all times of the game and all times of the season. I can't stand watching games decided by refs putting their whistles in their pockets and not calling anything or using make up calls to even up the penalties. If refs don't want to be responsible for deciding the outcome of a game then they should call games according to the rulebook.

I've been involved in several of these discussions over the years, so apologies in advance if I reference a point that you haven't made. This is more a commentary on the criticism of NHL officiating in general....

 

Firstly, lets get the elephant in the room out of the way.....there are a few CDCers (not pointing the finger at anyone in particular) who are of the opinion that the league is out to screw the Canucks in particular and they do it via biased officiating. In answer to that, I'd say that they're just too close to the issue. All they see are calls that go against us, seemingly all the time and we miss the fact that virtually every fanbase in the league feels the same way.

 

Bad calls happen. They happen to everyone. We're just not that special in the eyes of the league that we need to be "stopped". Not even back in 2011.

 

Secondly, as @stawns has pointed out, being an NHL referee is a hard job. So hard, in fact, that the absolute best people the league can find, make several mistakes over the course of every game. I've personally reffed a few hundred games and all at about half the speed of the NHL and I can attest to how hard it is. You have to see the infraction, (not a given) you have to decide in a split second whether or not it merits a penalty, knowing all the while that one of the two people involved in the play is going to think you made the wrong call. This happens dozens of times over the course of the game.

 

Finally, the "game management" aspect of your critique. This one comes up all the time and it seems like there are two distinct camps on this one. One side says a penalty in the first period, should be a penalty with 2 minutes left in the third of a tie game. The other side is in the "let 'em play" camp. I've always wondered how many in the "a penalty is a penalty" camp would change their tune if a borderline call was made against their team in the final minutes of a game 7?

 

All of that aside, I don't think the zebras are the real culprit when it comes to game management. NHL officials take their marching orders from the league and if the league told them to call everything, they would. There was a point in the early 10's where the "call everything" approach was actually tried, but it didn't take long for the owners to step in and put the kibosh on it. In the end, a sort of compromise was adopted....a lot of the hooking and holding calls were called by the book, (or close to it) but the tendency to "put the whistles away", late in close contests was brought back.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, Mo Grit said:

We saw an extremely unwatchable second period last game.

Seemed like game management to me.

Be fair though, hockey's appeal is all about a physical challenge.

Some kind of penalty could be called every minute, if a ref lacks 'game' intuition

and sticks to a by-the-book bean-counter style.

Is there an independent body existing, not controlled by ownership interests, which evaluates ref performance?

Yet, even when something similar exists (FIFA) refs very often appear to have been plucked from the crowd, last minute.

The best refs posses a natural ability to find a balance between rules and common sense.

 

the fact remains that these are the best ice hockey officials in the world.  Like players they go through the systems, starting in minor hockey, graduating to juniors, then to some international competitions, on the the minor leagues until they finally get a shot at the bigs.......and then they have to stick.  One of my good friends was an NHL referee and it's just as hard to make the NHL as an official as it is a player.  They are the best of the best.

 

 

[grumpyone]

19 minutes ago, stawns said:

the fact remains that these are the best ice hockey officials in the world.  Like players they go through the systems, starting in minor hockey, graduating to juniors, then to some international competitions, on the the minor leagues until they finally get a shot at the bigs.......and then they have to stick.  One of my good friends was an NHL referee and it's just as hard to make the NHL as an official as it is a player.  They are the best of the best.

 

 

they may be the best of the best, but if they are told by higher ups to 'manage' the games to keep them close or to hinder certain teams from winning then they are the best at getting THAT job done. 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, grumpyone said:

they may be the best of the best, but if they are told by higher ups to 'manage' the games to keep them close or to hinder certain teams from winning then they are the best at getting THAT job done. 

of course they have to manage games, if they didn't there would be 4-5 penalties on every single shift, at least.

[Fan since 82]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

do you realize what hockey would look like if there were no "game management"?  It would be unwatchable

Would it though? I don't know that we've seen it consistently. I do feel that the players would get used to it and would be more comfortable playing knowing where the lines are. I know that refs aren't perfect and some calls will get missed. I also understand that the game is super fast which would also account for some missed calls. I personally just feel that make up calls can be so unfair because if a team is playing a clean hard game and drawing penalties they shouldn't be penalized for it by having borderline or even phantom calls levied against them to even things up. I've never reffed hockey before so am not trying to say that I 'know' everything because I'm painfully aware of my lack of experience here.

 

I know there are two (or more) camps on this and I'll admit that I do sometimes enjoy watching a game where the whistles have been put away, but we've all seen games where a dirty team can have the advantage in this scenario.

[DrJockitch]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Boudreau is coming back.  650 saying it’s close to done and should be announced by Monday.

That means we are coming back with the same team.

So do we sign Miller this summer to a huge deal, or play it out until he’s a UFA July 2023?

Not sure why you equate the two. 
Maybe Miller will sign or not. Depends more on GM and agent than coach. 
Glad Boudreau is coming back and certainly the possibility of coming back with Bo, EP and JT as centres would be exciting but would need big changes on wing and D to progress. 
A lot of nice things being said about OEL but him and Myers got buried 5v5 this year and are a $13M+ 2nd pairing. Ouch, they are only getting older and that number is staying just as ugly. Demko pulled their butts out of the fire they were pouring gas on. 

[Fan since 82]

2 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I've been involved in several of these discussions over the years, so apologies in advance if I reference a point that you haven't made. This is more a commentary on the criticism of NHL officiating in general....

 

Firstly, lets get the elephant in the room out of the way.....there are a few CDCers (not pointing the finger at anyone in particular) who are of the opinion that the league is out to screw the Canucks in particular and they do it via biased officiating. In answer to that, I'd say that they're just too close to the issue. All they see are calls that go against us, seemingly all the time and we miss the fact that virtually every fanbase in the league feels the same way.

 

Bad calls happen. They happen to everyone. We're just not that special in the eyes of the league that we need to be "stopped". Not even back in 2011.

 

Secondly, as @stawns has pointed out, being an NHL referee is a hard job. So hard, in fact, that the absolute best people the league can find, make several mistakes over the course of every game. I've personally reffed a few hundred games and all at about half the speed of the NHL and I can attest to how hard it is. You have to see the infraction, (not a given) you have to decide in a split second whether or not it merits a penalty, knowing all the while that one of the two people involved in the play is going to think you made the wrong call. This happens dozens of times over the course of the game.

 

Finally, the "game management" aspect of your critique. This one comes up all the time and it seems like there are two distinct camps on this one. One side says a penalty in the first period, should be a penalty with 2 minutes left in the third of a tie game. The other side is in the "let 'em play" camp. I've always wondered how many in the "a penalty is a penalty" camp would change their tune if a borderline call was made against their team in the final minutes of a game 7?

 

All of that aside, I don't think the zebras are the real culprit when it comes to game management. NHL officials take their marching orders from the league and if the league told them to call everything, they would. There was a point in the early 10's where the "call everything" approach was actually tried, but it didn't take long for the owners to step in and put the kibosh on it. In the end, a sort of compromise was adopted....a lot of the hooking and holding calls were called by the book, (or close to it) but the tendency to "put the whistles away", late in close contests was brought back.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

Many great points, and I appreciate the time it took to respond. 

 

 

[RomanP]

On 4/27/2022 at 1:47 PM, Locke Lamora said:

Dan Klim doesn’t have nearly the cachet of Podz. Yet.

 

Speaking of Podz, I wouldn’t be at all shocked if he doesn’t end up going to Abby for the playoffs. I think when they “papered” him down to the NHL so he could be eligible he was still kinda finding his footing in the NHL. Well, since then he has found it big time. Would not be shocked if he made it known he’d rather shut things down for the year….it already being the longest grind he’s ever experienced as a hockey professional..and according to @RomanP, who knows stuff, Podz is going back to Russia in the off season, whereas Dan Klim isn’t going back to Belarus. I don’t think management would force him to play in Abby if he didn’t want to. But the kid loves hockey so much maybe he’s dying to play some more. People tend to speak of him playing in Abby like its a foregone conclusion. Hopefully we will get some clarification soon. I’d love to see Podz play in Abby if indeed he does.

 

 

Based on my conversations with both Vasily and Danila, Podz is going to play in Abbotsford playoffs.

[Locke Lamora]

Just now, RomanP said:

Based on my conversations with both Vasily and Danila, Podz is going to play in Abbotsford playoffs.

Yeah, Podz pretty much confirmed that himself in his (awesome) interview session earlier today. But thanks for responding to my post!

[wai_lai416]

14 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

OEL has quietly put together a very nice ending to the season. It takes a lot of players up to a year to acclimate to a new team. He's been a stud lately I'm not seeing an anchor contract. 29 points while not playing on the PP much is pretty damn good for an off year. @wai_lai416 He's not at all that bad or as unmovable as you think.

oh i don't think he's a bad player by any mean just not at his current cap. he will still be unmovable how many contending team out there that's desperate enough to take on OEL for 5 years at 7.25mil have the cap space for him without us retaining? and then say a team like Edmonton that's desperate for defense wants Larsson.. dunno why OEL would all of a sudden waive to go there.. i don't see OEL ever waiving to go to a rebuilding team for a cap dump.as there are still a lot of actual money remaining on that contract.