[Rumour] Major Changes Coming, Country Club Atmosphere ~ Shannon and Kypreos

[NucknAsia]

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

Or its just not part of how he's been so effective and consistent. I don't really agree with you on him being soft on the boards tho. 

 

Why do you want to see him be more physical, what do you think that would add to his effectiveness?

It seems that to you, hockey is not a physical game 

 

This isn't Wednesday shinny at 8 rinks dude.

Edited June 11, 2022 by NucknAsia

[Hairy Kneel]

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

Aw man we truly need some Dickinson-be-gone spray.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

Apparently hockey is not a physical game in your mind

 

This isn't Wednesday shinny at 8 rinks dude.

JR says he wants more gritty sandpaper guys.  It’s even better when the top minute players bring that grit too.  If Bo added meanness to his game he’d be a 9 million dollar irreplaceable guy.  Bo is 220 pounds, skates like crazy, and has good skill.  He should be a friggin’ nightmare to play against.  

[grandmaster]

16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

How about we do major changes?

Miller + Demko for Draisatl 

or

Miller + Demko for Marner

or

Miller + Demko to the Avs for Byram + + + 

 

id imagine these teams that are in the heart of their winning windows (who don’t have a franchise goalie) would pay a lot for our guy.  Add in Miller and we could return another superstar level player to go with Petey.

Wow, so you want to give up on BOTH of our MVPs that showed up most of last year for Marner, Drai or Byram ++ ???

 

These  2 stole games on a regular basis when the rest of the team fell asleep. 
 

You’re basically also ripping out the heart and soul of this franchise. 
 

The Canucks would instantly become bottom feeders in any of those trades. 

 

Petey also walks in 2 years. He won’t be sticking around after this! He made it clear that the team would have to be in a certain direction for him to extend his next contract.

 

No thanks. 

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Wow, so you want to give up on BOTH of our MVPs that showed up most of last year for Marner, Drai or Byram ++ ???

 

These  2 stole games on a regular basis when the rest of the team fell asleep. 
 

You’re basically also ripping out the heart and soul of this franchise. 
 

The Canucks would instantly become bottom feeders in any of those trades. 

 

Petey also walks in 2 years. He won’t be sticking around after this! He made it clear that the team would have to be in a certain direction for him to extend his next contract.

 

No thanks. 

It’s the thread title:  “Major Changes ...”

Well? Would there be a more major change than trading Demko?  And if he’s going let’s get some great player back! 

[JM_]

30 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

It seems that to you, hockey is not a physical game 

 

This isn't Wednesday shinny at 8 rinks dude.

yup, nailed me. Thats it exactly. 

[JM_]

40 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

Yes little nerdlets who play with numbers definitely more about the game than those who actually play it

 

I wonder why players who hit and play physical are in demand.

 

Chayka and the success of his advanced stats in AZ say hello...

OK champ  

 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

It’s the thread title:  “Major Changes ...”

Well? Would there be a more major change than trading Demko?  And if he’s going let’s get some great player back! 

maybe the best major change we could make is not listening to Kypreos?

[JM_]

1 hour ago, KirkSave said:

Miller is better than Strome. They would have a way better chance against TB with him inserted over Strome as their 2C. Plus this series was almsot 3-0 Rangers but TB was able to pull out a few gutsy wins in a row here. Very tight series and a player of Miller's ilk could be the difference in their favour.

yup. Now imagine if they had Bo 

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

look at the $&!# for coaching he's had here, what sort of opportunity for this existed under Willie D or Green? both of them discouraged this kind of culture.  

 

Its not all on Bo, even with the C. 

 

Its fine if you want him to get more physical but that will come at a production cost unless he's got better winger talent with him. 

 

 

Being ..   BEING a physical player is in the nature and make up of a player first.

 

The only coaches that instal that type of game are in your Minor Hockey Years.

 

A Coach  should not need to ask or teach a player to be physical when he is / has made millions of dollars already.

 

It’s asked of a Coach to his entire team to play that way.

Yes things got a bit more gritty and physical when Boudreau arrived.

Miller already had it in his DNA , as did Garland OEL , Myers Burroughs Dermott

Pearson Motte Lammikko Highmore Schenn 

Chaisson Hunt , even Peterssen ..

 

But Bo , with the C ,  dosent  bring it,

 

Nobody discouraged the “culture” JM,  

it’s the sad state of the leadership we’ve had ,

strong and silent, take a beating keep on ticking, and it’s prevelant with Horvat.

 

If he can change his game and be more annoyingly aggressive then more opportunities will happen for him.. if he continues being almost delinquent, then he’s a 3 C , specialist for pk pp and home zone face offs.

not with 7m .

He, like anybody else gets his points from th contribution of others and the opportunities he is given.

Lamikko would look better on that pp than Bo or Brock.

 

 

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

 

I don't know what people expect. When you look at the career line mates that Bo has been saddled with, he's carried his line's production his entire career. Maybe if he didn't have to carry his line he could hit a bit more. 

 

Seems like nitpicking to me, but maybe people would be happier with more hits and less production? 

Your making excuses for a single player that has been here how many years ?

 

He is afraid to hurt or piss off the opposition and at times plays safe ..  Edler did in his Final 2 contracts..  LE did the entire time he was here.

If a player in his prime can not punish at least one guy a game with a hit,  he dosent have it in his DNA.

 

[KirkSave]

I think we end up trying to keep both Miller and Bo, as Petey seems to be a more effective winger. If anyone goes out of the current crop it should be Boeser, young, injury prone, has promise but not even close to his QO of 7.5 to a team like us that is cap strapped. It seems obvious to an armchair GM like me. 

 

I would much rather move out players like Dickinson, Poolman, Myers, Pearson in order to trim the cap fat. Teams like Arizona, Buffalo, Detroit might be takers as they will have a trying time getting to the cap floor next season, like the Ben Bishop trade as of late.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, mll said:

Rutherford has been repeating on every podcast/interview since the end of the season that he wants them to have a better defensive structure.  After Donnie&Dhali, here's him on Seravalli's podcast.  Tracking shows that Vancouver was not particularly reliable defensively but Demko was among the best in the league when accounting for environment. 

 

Don't disagree with anything there. 

 

I too want better defensive structure when exiting the zone. Watching Penguins, you can tell the difference big time. 

[SilentSam]

11 minutes ago, JM_ said:

yup. Now imagine if they had Bo 

Much rather lose Bo in a trade than Miller,  are you actually stating Bo is a better player than Miller here?

Perhaps that’s a bit of fantasy, and you have him on an emotional pedestal?

 

 

[Nucker 67]

Kuzmenko please

 

Trade Miller, Garland, Pearson and Myers to upgrade the D / acquire picks

 

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Podkolzin

Hoglander or UFA - Horvat - Boeser

 

 

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

10 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Kuzmenko please

 

Trade Miller, Garland, Pearson and Myers to upgrade the D / acquire picks

 

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Podkolzin

Hoglander or UFA - Horvat - Boeser

 

 

This. I would also chase after Forsberg in free agency.

 

Forsberg - Pettersson - Podkolzin

Kuzmenko - Horvat - Boeser 

[Meh]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

How about we do major changes?

Miller + Demko for Draisatl 

or

Miller + Demko for Marner

or

Miller + Demko to the Avs for Byram + + + 

 

id imagine these teams that are in the heart of their winning windows (who don’t have a franchise goalie) would pay a lot for our guy.  Add in Miller and we could return another superstar level player to go with Petey.

 

[Canuck Surfer]

6 hours ago, NucknAsia said:

Bo Horvat is not Wayne Gretzky and mentioning the two in the same sentence is pure nonsense so lets start there.

 

Go read my last 2 posts. It explains the issues very well. Its all well and good to have a quiet captain, non physical IF, you can change the game offensively. 100 pt players like Sakic, Yzerman, Gretz were great captains, because THEY COULD ALTER THE GAME.

 

Bo is not a 100 pt player. He can't go out and get his team going by scoring or setting up 2 goals in 3 shifts.

 

He is a 50-60 pt player who plays like Taylor Pyatt. Your teammates notice that. If you're going to lead a team that is emotionless you have to find a way to bring emotion to them, sports need emotion.

 

Suggesting this is an issue over fighting is ridiculously reductive and not the issue.

Go read your own post.

 

There are very good leaders who;

 

A Aren't abbrasive personalities. 

B Lead effectively even though they dont score like Sydney Crosby.

C Toot a bull horn

 

Bo is the hardest working, willing to take any role, that exemplifies leadership.  Is a very physical player; 215 lbs, draws match ups against the biggest and best, defensive zone & critical situation. 

 

Completely disagree.

[Canucklehead73]

Have to say this thread is a bit embarrassing as a Canucks fan... Dissing Horvat because he does not do certain things, ignoring the facts, and comparing him to players who never accomplished anything more that Hovat has accomplished... Lauding a playing style that only wins cups in their fantasy land, in perfect keyboard warrior style.

 

I think everyone wants the Canucks to be tougher to play against, myself included, but trading away a player like Horvat is beyond laughable, every team covets players like him.

 

I am not really going to get into any arguments over this, it is readily apparent there is no real discussion here so I simply agree to disagree.

 

For those saying Horvat does not hit... Last season he had 96 recorded hits, ranking him 51st amongst centers, take away the bottom six players, he is highly ranked amongst top 6 centers, that is just the facts of the matter, any comments otherwise are simply ignorance. refer to the straw man comment

 

Does he fight? No, nor would I want any of our key players to fight very often and risk injury, don't really care if your are the captain or not, we can ice role players for that.

 

For the most part we watch the game from the outside with no idea what happens on the ice or the dressing room, it's very easy to sit in our living rooms a decide what players feel, see or does in relation to activities on the ice, and then write them off on a whim... pretty common practice for many sports fans, not just Canucks fans.

 

All arguments aside, I am all for the Canucks to be tougher, bigger and grittier. All supporting our skill guys, because we need them too. Canucks do need to make changes to our roster, but Horvat is not one of them in my humble opinion. How many of our forwards are soft? How many of our forwards fight? But Horvat is trade bait simply because he is the Captain? *facepalm*

 

It's a rare combination to have toughness, brass balls, skill, face offs, skating and leadership all in one package... And I'd bet dollars to donuts that if Horvat was some mean spirited intimidating captain but could not score, or could not win face offs or could not... whatever... there would still be that group of guys saying we should trade him because our captain should be able to do that too...

 

My two cents on it anyways. I think we are blessed to have a guy like Horvat... Let's build around him

Edited June 11, 2022 by Canucklehead73
spelling

[JM_]

43 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Much rather lose Bo in a trade than Miller,  are you actually stating Bo is a better player than Miller here?

Perhaps that’s a bit of fantasy, and you have him on an emotional pedestal?

 

Come on now, this is getting silly. I often like your takes on players, we just don't agree on this one.