[Signing] Canucks re-sign J.T. Miller

[Baratheon]

8 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Is that us eating crow? lol

[JustABandwagoner]

On 9/2/2022 at 3:22 PM, SilentSam said:

 

YABADABADOOOOOOO !!!

 

Good job Management!!

Can't wait for this to backfire 

[Coconuts]

8 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

Is that us eating crow? lol

Nah, that'd be low

 

I don't think he'll be this bad all season but I do feel a bit vindicated in not wanting him extended 

 

If the season slips away on us sooner than later I hope management explores trading him, extension or not 

[Baratheon]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Nah, that'd be low

 

I don't think he'll be this bad all season but I do feel a bit vindicated in not wanting him extended 

 

If the season slips away on us sooner than later I hope management explores trading him, extension or not 

Agreed.  Just having a chuckle at some of the louder comments earlier in this thread.  

[Provost]

41 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Nah, that'd be low

 

I don't think he'll be this bad all season but I do feel a bit vindicated in not wanting him extended 

 

If the season slips away on us sooner than later I hope management explores trading him, extension or not 

He somehow probably has less value with this contract than unsigned.

 

There was a lot of Vitriol when it was suggested that he is more likely to revert back to a 70-80 point pace than to repeat his one time 99 point season.  He will probably still put up points, but that whole “Inwant to be committed to being a better 200 foot player” thing seems to have become an early season casualty.
 

I also suggested that there was no sign he had done any growing up from the pouty toxic Miller we saw early last season.  It was that things went so well in the last half there was no opportunity for that side to expose itself.  Let’s see what his attitude is with some hardships.

 

This management said all the right things about the team needing a lot of work to be a contender.  No idea why they didn’t follow through with that vision.  Maybe Benning left his playbook behind and they accidentally copied that instead.

[Elias Pettersson]

7 minutes ago, Provost said:

He somehow probably has less value with this contract than unsigned.

 

There was a lot of Vitriol when it was suggested that he is more likely to revert back to a 70-80 point pace than to repeat his one time 99 point season.  He will probably still put up points, but that whole “Inwant to be committed to being a better 200 foot player” thing seems to have become an early season casualty.
 

I also suggested that there was no sign he had done any growing up from the pouty toxic Miller we saw early last season.  It was that things went so well in the last half there was no opportunity for that side to expose itself.  Let’s see what his attitude is with some hardships.

 

This management said all the right things about the team needing a lot of work to be a contender.  No idea why they didn’t follow through with that vision.  Maybe Benning left his playbook behind and they accidentally copied that instead.

Miller only had one more point after 4 games last year, so he can still turn it around...

[Coconuts]

12 minutes ago, Provost said:

He somehow probably has less value with this contract than unsigned.

 

There was a lot of Vitriol when it was suggested that he is more likely to revert back to a 70-80 point pace than to repeat his one time 99 point season.  He will probably still put up points, but that whole “Inwant to be committed to being a better 200 foot player” thing seems to have become an early season casualty.
 

I also suggested that there was no sign he had done any growing up from the pouty toxic Miller we saw early last season.  It was that things went so well in the last half there was no opportunity for that side to expose itself.  Let’s see what his attitude is with some hardships.

 

This management said all the right things about the team needing a lot of work to be a contender.  No idea why they didn’t follow through with that vision.  Maybe Benning left his playbook behind and they accidentally copied that instead.

He's the same player he was last season, he's just not producing like he was. Miller wasn't a defensive dynamo last season either but folks were willing to overlook aspects of his game because of his production. If he's not producing he doesn't get that slack. 

 

There's still time for him to turn things around but it's looking more like I was right about him having peaked than his 99 point level somehow being his new norm. I think he'll be better going forward but I do think some folks will need to revaluate their expectations of him. If he can put up 70-80 points that's still acceptable, but if he falters going forward once he's making 8M per the knives will continue to come out for him. 

 

Should have traded one or both of him and Boeser. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Coconuts

[Provost]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Miller only had one more point after 4 games last year, so he can still turn it around...

No one said he can’t… he will get the prime PP time with good line mates so he should put up decent points.

Maybe he can stay on pace to hit a -82 by the end of the season too…

 

[Elias Pettersson]

26 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

He's the same player he was last season, he's just not producing like he was. Miller wasn't a defensive dynamo last season either but folks were willing to overlook aspects of his game because of his production. If he's not producing he doesn't get that slack. 

 

There's still time for him to turn things around but it's looking more like I was right about him having peaked than his 99 point level somehow being his new norm. I think he'll be better going forward but I do think some folks will need to revaluate their expectations of him. If he can put up 70-80 points that's still acceptable, but if he falters going forward once he's making 8M per the knives will continue to come out for him. 

 

Should have traded one or both of him and Boeser. 

Miller isn’t being paid to be a 99 point player. 99 point players make a lot more than $8 million. Also, technically he is still only getting paid $5.25 million this year. So he will still outperform his contract even if he only gets 80 points. 
 

Next year is next year. Just like you said Miller isn’t a 100 point player neither is he currently an $8 million player. 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Miller isn’t being paid to be a 99 point player. 99 point players make a lot more than $8 million. Also, technically he is still only getting paid $5.25 million this year. So he will still outperform his contract even if he only gets 80 points. 
 

Next year is next year. Just like you said Miller isn’t a 100 point player neither is he currently an $8 million player. 

Perhaps not, but you were in the exact same thread I was over the summer and we both repeatedly saw people gush about how Miller was just getting started. And it's true, but if he doesn't perform going forward fans will turn on him just like they turned on Pettersson last season as he struggled early on. 

 

With increased pay comes increased expectations. He's not even meeting his current pay expectations right now. I'm still skeptical of how he'll age, he's a double edged sword but at least right now he should still be good enough to mitigate his defensive lapses. 

[Elias Pettersson]

7 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Perhaps not, but you were in the exact same thread I was over the summer and we both repeatedly saw people gush about how Miller was just getting started. And it's true, but if he doesn't perform going forward fans will turn on him just like they turned on Pettersson last season as he struggled early on. 

 

With increased pay comes increased expectations. He's not even meeting his current pay expectations right now. I'm still skeptical of how he'll age, he's a double edged sword but at least right now he should still be good enough to mitigate his defensive lapses. 

This is true.  And look how it affected Petey last year. He didn’t get going until January. And this year he has less pressure and is performing like he should. 
 

Miller went through a stressful negotiation and also had a baby in the summer. Those things weigh on you and to be honest he looks out of shape. I think that’s his biggest problem. You can’t play at an elite level if you are out of shape. 
 

Boudreau should have played him more in the preseason. That’s on Boudreau. Scratching Garland was also a dumb move. He should have taken out Joshua and played Höglander on the 4th line. 
 

Whoever was the guy who said Boudreau would be the first coach fired must have some inside info. I think he is on to something. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Elias Pettersson

[Coconuts]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

This is true.  And look how it affected Petey last year. He didn’t get going until January. And this year he has less pressure and is performing like he should. 
 

Miller went through a stressful negotiation and also had a baby in the summer. Those things weigh on you and to be honest he looks out of shape. I think that’s his biggest problem. You can’t play at an elite level if you are out of shape. 
 

Boudreau should have played him more in the preseason. That’s on Boudreau. Scratching Garland was also a dumb move. He should have taken out Joshua and played Höglander on the 4th line. 
 

Whoever was the guy who said Boudreau would be the first coach fired must have some inside info. I think he is on to something. 

Difference is Petey will only be 24 this winter and has his entire prime ahead of him, he should crack 80 this season if he can stay healthy. Forwards typically fall off during their early to mid 30's, the guys who don't are anomalies who are either hall of fame caliber players or just players who've been incredibly consistent their entire careers (see Pavelski). 

 

Yeah, he was awful tonight and I wouldn't be surprised to see him benched after that performance. Even making 5.25M or whatever it is there's no way he should look that sluggish. 

 

I don't blame Boudreau for this tbh, they've been scoring goals and they've even been scoring first. I lay what we've seen primarily at the feet of the players. 

[wai_lai416]

12 hours ago, JM_ said:

So to me thats really everyone but Podz, Petey, Hughes. Move all others. We may yet come to this. 

i'm pretty sure EP won't be here either as he'll likely take his 1 year qualifying and leave so we have to move him too. 

[Provost]

38 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Miller isn’t being paid to be a 99 point player. 99 point players make a lot more than $8 million. Also, technically he is still only getting paid $5.25 million this year. So he will still outperform his contract even if he only gets 80 points. 
 

Next year is next year. Just like you said Miller isn’t a 100 point player neither is he currently an $8 million player. 

You are framing things falsely by omitting some significant context.

 

He is getting paid an average of $8 million over a long term contract where the expectation is that there is supposed to be surplus value in the first half in order to make up for the decline in production over the last half of it.

 

The value is over the entire contract.  A four year contract would have been for a lot more.

 

If he can’t provide significant surplus value early on, then it goes from a risky contract to an albatross.

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, Tank4Bedard said:

Can't wait for this to backfire 

It won’t ,but the TEAM,  will get very strong on this next homestand.

 

Boeser still skating like he has cement boots,

 

and Horvat having his best game in his last 30.

 

A trade will come ,  upgrade / depth on D will happen.

[JustABandwagoner]

8 minutes ago, Provost said:

If he can’t provide significant surplus value early on, then it goes from a risky contract to an albatross.

Just like OEL's albatross contract ugh. Decent player but bad contract 

[Elias Pettersson]

41 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Difference is Petey will only be 24 this winter and has his entire prime ahead of him, he should crack 80 this season if he can stay healthy. Forwards typically fall off during their early to mid 30's, the guys who don't are anomalies who are either hall of fame caliber players or just players who've been incredibly consistent their entire careers (see Pavelski). 

 

Yeah, he was awful tonight and I wouldn't be surprised to see him benched after that performance. Even making 5.25M or whatever it is there's no way he should look that sluggish. 

 

I don't blame Boudreau for this tbh, they've been scoring goals and they've even been scoring first. I lay what we've seen primarily at the feet of the players. 

Miller is 29 not in his mid thirties. So his drop off this year isn’t due to age. He’s out of shape like Petey was last year. Give him 20 games and he’ll be at peak performance. 
 

Not sure where this team will be in 20 more games though. We could have a new head coach with a few new players by that time. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

You are framing things falsely by omitting some significant context.

 

He is getting paid an average of $8 million over a long term contract where the expectation is that there is supposed to be surplus value in the first half in order to make up for the decline in production over the last half of it.

 

The value is over the entire contract.  A four year contract would have been for a lot more.

 

If he can’t provide significant surplus value early on, then it goes from a risky contract to an albatross.

No I’m being perfectly factual and you are the one with false information. 
 

Miller’s new contract hasn’t kicked in yet. He’s still playing on his old contract. So what I said was factually correct. 
 

He’s being paid an average of $8 million for 7 years starting next year. His first 4 years of his new deal when he’s 30-34 years old is when he has to make up for the last 4 years of his new contract. 
 

Miller as of right now is still a $5.25 million player. 

 

EDIT:  I would like to add that Miller has outperformed his contract since his arrival over 3 years ago.  He's played 206 games as a Canuck including the 4 this year and has 220 points.  That's an average of 1.07 points per game in over 3+ years.  That kind of production would get you an $8 million deal.  But's he's only been paid $5.25 million since his arrival.  He's outperformed his contract by over 35% since he became a Canuck.  So, he's more than repaid the team for his services here so far.  In fact, the Canucks owe him money at this point...

Edited October 19, 2022 by Elias Pettersson

[aGENT]

18 minutes ago, Tank4Bedard said:

Just like OEL's albatross contract ugh. Decent player but bad contract 

Miller's contract is way worse than OEL's.

[Canucks Curse]

7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Miller's contract is way worse than OEL's.

lol, yeah imagine if miller keeps playing like this...it would make Player Names contract palatable