[PGT] New Jersey Devils at Vancouver Canucks | Nov. 01, 2022

[86Viking]

To the Myers fans...we are doing so much better with him back eh!? Guy is 100% at fault for the 1st goal, you need to be aware and NOT leave a guy open in front of the net!

 

We have multiple high cap hit players all holding this team back...It is very hard seeing this team in this situation after all these years of trying to fix it with shortsighted moves!

 

Rutherford, talked big when he got here, called out the country club atmosphere and look where we are now...Was quoted saying the D needs fixing then we sign a 4.75m PK winger instead...tough times right now, team literally needs to be massively blown up it seems

[aqua59]

11 minutes ago, billabong said:

I think A LOT of fans seem to forget benning’s fingerprints are still all over this team and need to give the new management a little bit of a break.

 

Allvin and Rutherford took over an impossible task of moving out money and turning this around within a year 

I have drumming your point for quite some time. It's true. 

 

I believe the core has run it's course but present management has their hands tied behind their backs. 

[spook007]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Totally understand.   It just needs to start with one trade and go from there.   I think both Myers and Pearson are easy enough to unload at the TDL, Myers with retention.   

 

Both TO and OTT blew up their roster. TO - Lou "we had to work awfully hard to get the best odds for number one (Mathews)" .   OTT had a team that was one goal from the final.   It turned into a total gong show.   But they certainly had assets, and they ended up with a crazy number of picks despite losing Byram.  Plus that team actually does consistently hit on later picks.   Hard not to respect that. 

 

Getting pretty close to feeling like Brass is gaslighting the fanbase.  

 

Horvat i think should be traded too.  Miller vs Horvat is totally childish, and we have the room for both.   But why should we?   

 

I still have a tiny bit of hope.  It's not squashed completely...five games.   We better see 3 wins and full efforts each game or fuck them all.   I'm tired of pumping players tires that haven't done squat.   EP included. 

Me too amigo, me too...

 

[aqua59]

Myers- needs to go

 

Pearson needed to go last season.

 

Boeser  needs to go. Injury machine. 

 

Larson needs to go. 

 

Why are they still here? Benning contract cooking. 

 

 

[86Viking]

Burroughs should be in the line up, guy gives it his all and gets scratched? Sit Myers and put in Burroughs...Sit OEL play Rathbone something is wrong with OEL with all these maintenance days so early in the season.

 

When teams win they don't usually make lineup changes...why did we "have" to make any lineup changes after a solid game the lineup played against Pittsburgh!?

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

Lets not come to any hasty conclusions. 

Been saying same thing since last offseason when Benning went crazy. 

[Smashian Kassian]

3 hours ago, AV. said:

1.  Actually, many serious teams tear it down and build from the bottom.  At the very least, if they aren't drafting high enough, they sell off to accumulate draft capital and youth to rebuild their team.  By your faulty logic, it's been 50 years without winning a cup, so what makes you think a cup would ever be won here?  Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't.  This is in regards to both drafting high enough to select an impact player, and winning a cup.

2.  As it stands, there is no timeline worth speaking about because this team is not good enough.  Full stop.  By ripping off the bandage, the team is afforded an opportunity to start again and reset the window.

3.  While it is true that the practicality of the plan is out of mine or your control, as much as this may be "hope", it's theoretically and philosophically the only way forward to sensibly move towards winning a cup.

4.  Actually, this is incorrect.  If the team was built around other players, the various managements of this team would have just cashed out on Miller and not have made the trade for OEL in the first place.  They chose to invest in these players, and when you make that much money and have as much term as they do, you become the building blocks.  If Benning really thought this was a Hughes-led defence, he wouldn't have targeted OEL and his contract to improve the defence.  Same with Rutherford re-signing Miller if he truly thought Elias Pettersson was the forward worth building around.

You're also misinterpreting what I said about ELCs.  A team doesn't need to win with their core on ELCs, but it can't be capped out with ineffective, ageing players.  That's where the value of having young players on ELCs and bridges comes into play, and you get that by drafting well (which we have not).

 

1. Not when they have elite young players they don't.

 

And I'm not betting on a cup either, but at the very least you have control over building a team vs just crossing your fingers on the lottery, which may leave us no better off.

 

2. The Canucks opening night roster was the 2nd youngest in the league. This isn't an old group, there's still runway to build. Blowing it up doesn't get you any closer to a window particularly if OEL & Miller are to blame for us being unable to have one, apparently. 

 

3. Explain STL

 

4. They were brought in as support pieces, since this isn't basketball where 2-3 guys are enough. If they didn't have Pettersson & Hughes they wouldn't have made those moves, when you believe in a young group you try to bring in players around them. Look at NJ signing older players like Hamilton & Palat to big deals as support for Hughes/Hischier/Bratt.

 

Your ELC point doesn't make sense, if your not really pushing to win with them on ELCs then being against the cap out isn't as big of a problem, (as opposed to if you are). 

 

[BC_Hawk]

15 minutes ago, billabong said:

I think A LOT of fans seem to forget benning’s fingerprints are still all over this team and need to give the new management a little bit of a break.

 

Allvin and Rutherford took over an impossible task of moving out money and turning this around within a year 

They resigned 2 of JBs core guys; 1 to above level $$ and one to a retirement deal. They then spent 4.75m is FA to pick up a nice, but redundant piece. Thye are all in on the core...they are just cute in their messaging. 

 

A true ballsy move would have been to bring in a coaching staff of their often, and made moves in offseason to make it their team. They are just much of the same, with new cliche quotes.

[Devron]

18 minutes ago, billabong said:

I think A LOT of fans seem to forget benning’s fingerprints are still all over this team and need to give the new management a little bit of a break.

 

Allvin and Rutherford took over an impossible task of moving out money and turning this around within a year 

They don’t get a break F that. Resigned Miller for 7 years 

[stawns]

3 hours ago, Canuck You said:

OK, Then give me an explanation..the cap rises to 1 mill..we still suck? I don't disagree with you guys but we need cash guys. You think Bo's signing for less then 7 mill.

You dump miller and boesee for whatever you can get for them and see what NJ would be willing to give up for Hughes

[DrJockitch]

7 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

1. Not when they have elite young players they don't.

 

And I'm not betting on a cup either, but at the very least you have control over building a team vs just crossing your fingers on the lottery, which may leave us no better off.

 

2. The Canucks opening night roster was the 2nd youngest in the league. This isn't an old group, there's still runway to build. Blowing it up doesn't get you any closer to a window particularly if OEL & Miller are to blame for us being unable to have one, apparently. 

 

3. Explain STL

 

4. They were brought in as support pieces, since this isn't basketball where 2-3 guys are enough. If they didn't have Pettersson & Hughes they wouldn't have made those moves, when you believe in a young group you try to bring in players around them. Look at NJ signing older players like Hamilton & Palat to big deals as support for Hughes/Hischier/Bratt.

 

Your ELC point doesn't make sense, if your not really pushing to win with them on ELCs then being against the cap out isn't as big of a problem, (as opposed to if you are). 

 

But Jersey has been picking at the top of the draft and has a lot more in the prospect pipeline than us. We tried to skirt around the hard part and have traded away pic after pic after pic to try to make up for the lack of a prospect pipeline. This is nonsensical. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by DrJockitch

[BC_Hawk]

8 minutes ago, Strawbone said:

As much as I like Bruce, I don't think he's the coach that new management wanted, and he knows it. His heart doesn't seem in it like last year, and whatever he's doing, it's clearly not working. During that timeout last night, he just looked dejected, and did nothing to inspire the team. I was expecting some F-bombs to drop. The optics of 3 coaches in 2 years along with the money being paid out probably means he's going to ride out the year. But things are starting to look so bleak, you never know. At this rate the Canucks are on pace for nearly their worst season in history. Most people think they are better than their record so far, but... what if they're not?

The optics are not great, but it is understandable. Aqua brought JR in...he hired PA. They have the right to their own coaching staff; BB was a placeholder. 

[EmilyM]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

You dump miller and boesee for whatever you can get for them and see what NJ would be willing to give up for Hughes

Re-sign Boeser and Miller in the summer and less than a year later dump them for whatever they can get for them. What a fantastic start to this management group.

[vancan2233]

16 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

NJD was 57.7% in the faceoffs….which leads to possession which leads to shots… which lead to goals…. Horvat was the only guy that was over 50% in a lopsided loss/lopsided faceoffs.. AGAIN. This isnt the first time this season either where he was the only guy above 50%. He was 55% and Pettersson was 33% thats like the 3rd or 4th time Petey has been under 40%, Studnicka was dudnicka in the dot at 29%. Aman was 50% but Im not sure how many he took. 

Horvat has consistently been above 50% in almost every single game this season. If we lose him, its going to get a lot uglier. Idc what the return is, if its not a consistent C, we’ll be chasing pucks and digging them out of the back of our net a lot more often.

 

Our centre’s not named Horvat, need to start pulling their weight. 

Faceoffs that are cleanly won are not high, it's the part of all the wingers to win faceoff scrums. The Canucks lose to many of these and that is the problem. There are only a handfull of NHL players that can win a faceoff with a high rate of clean draws. Most players are too evenly match in the dot which results in a scrum.  The teammates most help win the puck position off the tie draw. 

[BureBurrito]

Difference between a patient rebuild with a systems based approach, team buy-in, team speed versus trade all your picks away, keep picking up Clendenings and hope for the best.

Edited November 2, 2022 by BureBurrito

[Bad_BOI_pete]

3 hours ago, Canuck You said:

OK, Then give me an explanation..the cap rises to 1 mill..we still suck? I don't disagree with you guys but we need cash guys. You think Bo's signing for less then 7 mill.

I have been telling everyone on this forum since day 1, the cap was going to rise significantly. Its written in the agreement, if it doesn't rise we are going to see a lockout.

[Devron]

3 minutes ago, EmilyM said:

Re-sign Boeser and Miller in the summer and less than a year later dump them for whatever they can get for them. What a fantastic start to this management group.

Let’s give them a break though 

[AV.]

1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

1. Not when they have elite young players they don't.

 

And I'm not betting on a cup either, but at the very least you have control over building a team vs just crossing your fingers on the lottery, which may leave us no better off.

 

2. The Canucks opening night roster was the 2nd youngest in the league. This isn't an old group, there's still runway to build. Blowing it up doesn't get you any closer to a window particularly if OEL & Miller are to blame for us being unable to have one, apparently. 

 

3. Explain STL

 

4. They were brought in as support pieces, since this isn't basketball where 2-3 guys are enough. If they didn't have Pettersson & Hughes they wouldn't have made those moves, when you believe in a young group you try to bring in players around them. Look at NJ signing older players like Hamilton & Palat to big deals as support for Hughes/Hischier/Bratt.

 

Your ELC point doesn't make sense, if your not really pushing to win with them on ELCs then being against the cap out isn't as big of a problem, (as opposed to if you are). 

 

1.  I think you're assuming that I'm advocating to trade Pettersson, Hughes, etc.  I'm not.  A teardown might lead to them being traded if they decide they don't want to be around, but that's not what I'm inherently suggesting.  I'm talking about cutting ties with those generally above 25 - Garland, Boeser, Horvat, Miller, Demko (although, I'm fine if he stays), etc

2.  A window is opened up when there is financial flexibility to improve or sustain a period of success.  Canucks were not a good team before OEL, didn't improve after getting him.  Canucks did improve with Miller, but regressed shortly after when they lost key players to free-agency after the bubble playoffs.  Re-signing Miller has effectively ensured actual improvements can't be made, since more cap-space has been allocated to him.  Ergo, window closed unless major surgery is made to somehow swap major players out for other major players.

3.  I have.  Multiple times, including in this thread.  In any event, it's a poor, poor example to compare the Canucks to.

4.  They supplemented with key free-agents, not trading assets and picks to accelerate things.  It costed them nothing but money.  The other key notion here is that they made these moves AFTER Hughes/Hischier had been signed long-term.  Canucks tried to accelerate whilst players were on ELCs.  And my point does make sense because I'm not talking about core players on ELCs.  Rather, I'm talking about drafted players coming into the lineup and taking up these spots that are taken by the semi-high earners in the Pearsons and Poolmans of the world.  Something like how what Erik Cernak or Ross Colton were with Tampa Bay.

[spook007]

13 hours ago, Devron said:

What an idiot. Honestly does he sign off on a move like signing Miller. If that’s the case bring Benning back. It’s a joke but really Signing a floater and trading a real player away. I honestly don’t get it 

I think you should prepare yourself for Bo being dealt, like it or not amigo.

I don't think PA dare give Bo as big contract as his play atm warrants...

Maybe if Miller turns up the style again, but atm I doubt will sign another 8x8 deal for a player in a contract year.

 

Feel some what sad about it, but think, if they can't produce now, maybe the time has come....

[DeNiro]

No practice today or do people not even care to post updates?