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[Value of] Bo Horvat

Oregon.Duck
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Oregon.Duck Abbotsford Star

Oregon.Duck

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Hiya Folks,

 

As I was down a rabbit hole when looking at Tage Thompson stats, I stumbled upon the ROR centered trade between the Blues and Buffalo. This trade benefited both teams well, however Buffalo uniquely was able to add to their rebuild significantly. Trade is below.

 

This got me thinking, what would a player, with similar stats and being traded around the same age, in Horvat, get? A defensively sound and offensively gifted Center with some grit.

 

St. Louis Blues acquire Date Buffalo Sabres acquire
St._Louis_Blues.gif Ryan O`Reilly
July 1, 2018
Vladimir Sobotka
Patrik Berglund
Tage Thompson
2019 1st round pick
2021 2nd round pick 		Buffalo_Sabres.gif
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Coconuts Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Coconuts

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Similar to O'Reilly I'd imagine, probably less. O'Reilly had a slightly higher point output at a younger age and was better defensively on what were abysmal Buffalo squads.

 

Berglund and Sobotka were serviceable players (although Berglund did a runner) but were there to make the cap work for the Blues. But they did get Tage Thompson, a 1st, and a 2nd back. Now, there was no knowing what Thompson would go on to be at the time but he was still top prospect who'd been drafted 26th overall in 2016. 

 

So let's say roughly a 1st, a top prospect, a 2nd or another piece, and probably a short term cap dump to facilitate the cap for the other team because it's likely they won't have the space to just take on Horvat's cap hit. 

 

It is worth noting that when ROR was traded he still had five years left on his deal though, if the Canucks want that kind of return it'll likely be contingent on an extension being in place. But maybe not, you never know. 

Edited by Coconuts
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Ghostsof1915 Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Ghostsof1915

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1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I think we can get similar to what ROR got, especially with salary retention at the TDL. A first and an A prospect and a roster player for sure.  A clone of Tage Thompson would be a dream.  Buffalo got the unicorn of all players with him, probably can never be duplicated...

NO SALARY RETENTION.

EVER!

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Nucker 67 Canucks All-Star

Nucker 67

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After the season Horvat had last year (31 goals), and the way he's skyrocketed this season so far (8 goals in 10 games), I'm wondering if Horvat is the big ticket they should be selling. Trading Miller before his new contract and NMC kicks in next summer might be wise, long term.

 

I really think Boeser needs to go, seeing as the Canucks have plenty of Top 9 wingers who can play. This is Brock's 7th season as a Canuck and he still hasn't hit 30 goals yet, and he's supposed to be a shooter / goal scorer. He's also injured often. I've bought into the hope and the charm for long enough. Time for Boeser to go. Rathbone also needs a real NHL shot too.

 

to MIN: Boeser and Rathbone

to VAN: Dumba and Duhaime

 

 

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Ghostsof1915 Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Ghostsof1915

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6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Why?  It would only be for a few weeks...  lol...

Just no to salary retention. We don't have any flexibility regardless of term. We have to stop thinking of retaining salary until our team gets it's cap under control.

(i.e. Have at least $2-3 Million to spare each season). Doesn't matter if it's 24 hours.

 

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Coconuts Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Coconuts

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12 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

NO SALARY RETENTION.

EVER!

I disagree, particularly when the player in question is a pending UFA. Retaining salary on Bo drives up the return and broadens the number of teams that could potentially pay, which gives us a more diverse range of assets we could acquire. 

 

Bottom line is that if we're trading Bo we need max value, his deal expires at the end of the season. 

Edited by Coconuts
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Ghostsof1915 Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Ghostsof1915

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Just now, Coconuts said:

I disagree, particularly when the player in question is a pending UFA. Retaining salary on Bo drives up the return and broadens the number of teams that could potentially pay, which gives us a more diverse range of assets we could acquire. 

What a b-level prospect?

a 4th round pick?

The Canucks are not in a position to retain salary.

The trade deadline alone would drive up the price anyways.

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Coconuts Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Coconuts

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1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

What a b-level prospect?

a 4th round pick?

The Canucks are not in a position to retain salary.

The trade deadline alone would drive up the price anyways.

I'm not gonna go around in circles with you on this, we aren't going to agree. 

 

 

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Elias Pettersson Canucks All-Star

Elias Pettersson

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15 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Just no to salary retention. We don't have any flexibility regardless of term. We have to stop thinking of retaining salary until our team gets it's cap under control.

(i.e. Have at least $2-3 Million to spare each season). Doesn't matter if it's 24 hours.

 

His contract is over after the season.  The salary retention would only be for a few weeks until the end of this year if we trade him at the TDL.  Are you thinking we are extending him and then trading him?

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Ghostsof1915 Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Ghostsof1915

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8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

His contract is over after the season.  The salary retention would only be for a few weeks until the end of this year if we trade him at the TDL.  Are you thinking we are extending him and then trading him?

If the savings is so low, it's not going to have any real value.

Agree to disagree. We will leave it at that.

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wai_lai416 Canucks First-Line

wai_lai416

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38 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

What a b-level prospect?

a 4th round pick?

The Canucks are not in a position to retain salary.

The trade deadline alone would drive up the price anyways.

lol why wouldn't they be in a position to retain salary.. trading bo is the signal we are rebuilding.. all of a sudden you only have EP as ur 1c.. and then behind it is dries amon studnicka?? EP is guaranteed to take his 1 year and leave so you prolly forced to trade him too next year so all of a sudden you have no center lol... so we would be in a full blown rebuild anyways

 

and ROR is not even comparable.. St.louis gave up all those because o'reilly is not a rental.. how often do you see a player do a sign and trade at the TDL?? those are usually off season type of move.. if horvat goes it's going to be a late 1st A prospect and a B prospect at most. the biggest fish at the TDL is going to be Kane with the losers battling it out for horvat. 

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Oregon.Duck Abbotsford Star

Oregon.Duck

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1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Just no to salary retention. We don't have any flexibility regardless of term. We have to stop thinking of retaining salary until our team gets it's cap under control.

(i.e. Have at least $2-3 Million to spare each season). Doesn't matter if it's 24 hours.

 

But he’s a UFA. If it tips a 2nd to a 1st. Or a B-prospect to an A…wouldn’t that be worth retaining some dollars on a wash year?

 

the retention would be from the cap we’d ship away through the remainder of the season and can increase our return if the receiving team is in a cap crunch. Can’t see how it’s not a tool in our negotiations. 

Edited by Oregon.Duck
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Fanuck Canucks First-Line

Fanuck

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1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

NO SALARY RETENTION.

EVER!

No to any retention on 'term' for sure.  But on an expiring contract with literally months left in the season - it's essentially meaningless in the big-picture.

 

Not to mention that retaining for the remainder of the year opens up a considerably larger potential trade-partner list since any teams likely interested in a player like BoHo as a 'rental' will probably be at or near the cap anyway. 

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King Heffy Canucks Hall-of-Famer

King Heffy

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3 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

No to any retention on 'term' for sure.  But on an expiring contract with literally months left in the season - it's essentially meaningless in the big-picture.

 

Not to mention that retaining for the remainder of the year opens up a considerably larger potential trade-partner list since any teams likely interested in a player like BoHo as a 'rental' will probably be at or near the cap anyway. 

Yeah, one year is fine.  Anything more is grounds for firing management on the spot.

Edited by King Heffy
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Coconuts Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Coconuts

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50 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol why wouldn't they be in a position to retain salary.. trading bo is the signal we are rebuilding.. all of a sudden you only have EP as ur 1c.. and then behind it is dries amon studnicka?? EP is guaranteed to take his 1 year and leave so you prolly forced to trade him too next year so all of a sudden you have no center lol... so we would be in a full blown rebuild anyways

 

and ROR is not even comparable.. St.louis gave up all those because o'reilly is not a rental.. how often do you see a player do a sign and trade at the TDL?? those are usually off season type of move.. if horvat goes it's going to be a late 1st A prospect and a B prospect at most. the biggest fish at the TDL is going to be Kane with the losers battling it out for horvat. 

Not very, which is why I noted it'd probably be necessary for a ROR style return. But I do think it's an avenue management should explore, if both them and Horvat's side come to the conclusion that they're going to trade him it makes sense to try and trade him not only to the place that'll give the best value, but to explore what an extension with x team might look like. 

 

I don't think it needs to be a sign and trade, but that doesn't mean the other team couldn't come to terms with Bo and have an deal in place for an extension. Essentially the same thing, yeah. 

 

My counterargument would also be a question, how often do you see a Horvat kind of player traded during the season? Doesn't happen much, I figure there'd be a lot of interested teams and no doubt some of them would be interested in locking him down. 

Edited by Coconuts
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