Tank Hard for Bedard - Playoff chances are already Slim

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, Tank4Bedard said:

Miller is hard to trade. Pretty much unmoveable. 

 

1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Have you seen Millers contract? I highly doubt you'd get anyone to bite.

 

 

What "win now" team wouldn't be interested in looking at a 1ppg power forward (on a crap team no less), that can win draws/play C in a pinch, and is on an expiring bargain deal, with a below market extension already signed?

 

Sorry, not buying the "Miller is immoveable" narrative. Is it a limited market of likely 5 to maybe 10 teams, who would also need cap coming off this summer (as well as us taking some back/retaining). Yup. But he's quite moveable if they have the balls IMO.

 

Maybe they should bring Sutter on to management? 

[MaxVerstappen33]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Have you seen Millers contract? I highly doubt you'd get anyone to bite.

Boeser would be lucky to get a 2nd let alone a 1st.

Garland late 1st or 2nd.

 

 

 

Have you seen Johnny Gudreaus contract ? Jonothan Hubudeau's ? Out of all the bad contracts for 30 year olds signed, Millers might be the least worst. And he's outscoring these guys

[Boudrias]

38 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

 

What "win now" team wouldn't be interested in looking at a 1ppg power forward (on a crap team no less), that can win draws/play C in a pinch, and is on an expiring bargain deal, with a below market extension already signed?

 

Sorry, not buying the "Miller is immoveable" narrative. Is it a limited market of likely 5 to maybe 10 teams, who would also need cap coming off this summer (as well as us taking some back/retaining). Yup. But he's quite moveable if they have the balls IMO.

 

Maybe they should bring Sutter on to management? 

I agree that Miller is absolutely movable. If the field is narrow then retain $1 mil and see what offers are made. PA and JR knew when they resigned him that they would have until the TDL to move him if that was the decision. Same for Boeser. The question might be how willing Bo will be to resign to a team that is likely going into full rebuild. He has paid his dues here and by resigning might never realize his CUP dreams. Fans have to realize Bo might be gone as well. 

 

I am on the full rebuild side as I don't see any other option. 

[Hairy Kneel]

Baby tank to get into the top 5

[MeanSeanBean]

I don't buy this Miller is immovable thing. But I do think we get a reduced version of what most of the board thought was a bad trade a year ago. Been saying is since last January, that Lundkvist deal looks might good right now...

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

I agree that Miller is absolutely movable. If the field is narrow then retain $1 mil and see what offers are made. PA and JR knew when they resigned him that they would have until the TDL to move him if that was the decision. Same for Boeser. The question might be how willing Bo will be to resign to a team that is likely going into full rebuild. He has paid his dues here and by resigning might never realize his CUP dreams. Fans have to realize Bo might be gone as well. 

 

I am on the full rebuild side as I don't see any other option. 

I don't see us going "full rebuild". I doubt we're moving out Pettersson, Hughes, Demko at all. And we're unlikely able to move guys like Myers or Pearson until next year anyway.

 

But I could certainly understand Bo wanting to exercise his UFA rights to go play on a team looking closer to win now. Happily retain him if we can though.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Have you seen Johnny Gudreaus contract ? Jonothan Hubudeau's ? Out of all the bad contracts for 30 year olds signed, Millers might be the least worst. And he's outscoring these guys

This exactly. This sentiment that's he's immovable is  Teams can and do sign guys like him to even "worse" contracts on the regular. He's on a bargain expiring deal that we can retain on and/or take cap back. And signed to a below market value extension with cost certainty.

 

Are we going to get top value? Maybe not. But getting some value, and out from under the future cap liability (for a team that wasn't in position to do so yet) is worth it IMO.

[Hairy Kneel]

I'm just dumbfounded by the season to the Nth degree. 

It's been a cluster#$%& in every which way. Every game is a new bench mark in futility. I cannot believe we are this bad. It's insane.

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, Shayster007 said:

I don't buy this Miller is immovable thing. But I do think we get a reduced version of what most of the board thought was a bad trade a year ago. Been saying is since last January, that Lundkvist deal looks might good right now...

Yup absolutely we will see a reduced deal.  It was to be expected though.  He was a top 10 scorer in the league last year. We knew he over achieved last year.  The hope wasthat he wouldnt drop his production too much from there for the duration of his contract.

 

On the other hand, I believe Horvat's value has increased immensely. 

If we trade both, I'm guessing we would come out even to what it would have been last year if we traded both

 

[MeanSeanBean]

12 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Yup absolutely we will see a reduced deal.  It was to be expected though.  He was a top 10 scorer in the league last year. We knew he over achieved last year.  The hope wasthat he wouldnt drop his production too much from there for the duration of his contract.

 

On the other hand, I believe Horvat's value has increased immensely. 

If we trade both, I'm guessing we would come out even to what it would have been last year if we traded both

 

Fair point. Points gained and points loss. I'd love to see both traded and a young C with top 6 upside who needs opportunity and a potential righty for Quinn acquired. Any picks or prospects on top of that is just gravy.

[UnkNuk]

17 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

 

Good question.

 

IF it takes 94 points to get into the playoffs this season the Canucks will need to play .628 pp hockey from here on in.  A team playing .628 hockey going into the playoffs would have a chance of doing some damage once they got into the playoffs.

 

For instance, if a team had played .628 hockey thus far in the season, they would currently be in eighth place in the LEAGUE.  They would be in fourth place in the Western Conference.

 

Can the Canucks play .628 hockey for the remainder of the year?  Well, they played .649 hockey over 57 games last season.  The talent seems to be there.  It's a matter of releasing it.  If they could release it, they could also, not only make the playoffs, but be a factor in the playoffs.

[alt kilgore]

Rock and a hard place

Edited November 16, 2022 by kilgore

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

Good question.

 

IF it takes 94 points to get into the playoffs this season the Canucks will need to play .628 pp hockey from here on in.  A team playing .628 hockey going into the playoffs would have a chance of doing some damage once they got into the playoffs.

 

For instance, if a team had played .628 hockey thus far in the season, they would currently be in eighth place in the LEAGUE.  They would be in fourth place in the Western Conference.

 

Can the Canucks play .628 hockey for the remainder of the year?  Well, they played .649 hockey over 57 games last season.  The talent seems to be there.  It's a matter of releasing it.  If they could release it, they could also, not only make the playoffs, but be a factor in the playoffs.

I honestly could give a fart in the wind about the math.

 

I didn't think this team was good enough to be cup competitive last year, I don't think it's good enough this year. We have major structural and succession issues on the roster, need a 3C, two top 4 D, organizational depth and cap and assets to acquire all of them. We also have a major "give a $#@!" issue on this roster.

 

Even if they did go on an improbable tear to squeak in to the last wildcard spot...Why? To what end? This team isn't winning anything as constructed. And the way it's built, that gets worse, not better, as we move forward.

Edited November 16, 2022 by aGENT

[UnkNuk]

20 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I didn't think this team was good enough to be cup competitive last year, I don't think it's good enough this year.

This is the crux of the discussion.  Just how good or bad is this team?

 

I'm suggesting (and have been suggesting for some time) that any team that can play .649 hockey over an extended period of time (57 games), as this team did last season, is a good team.  It's got talent.  It has too, otherwise they wouldn't be able to play .649 hockey.

 

What would have happened had that team made it into the playoffs last season?  Who knows.  What will happen this season should the Canucks play .628 hockey for the rest of the season and make it into the playoffs?  Who knows.  

 

Has any NHL team ever missed the playoffs one year and then won the Cup the next?   I doubt it.  But getting into the playoffs and getting some playoff experience is an important step in eventually winning the Cup.

 

So let's hope the Canucks start playing to their potential and we'll see what happens.

[aGENT]

28 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

This is the crux of the discussion.  Just how good or bad is this team?

 

I'm suggesting (and have been suggesting for some time) that any team that can play .649 hockey over an extended period of time (57 games), as this team did last season, is a good team.  It's got talent.  It has too, otherwise they wouldn't be able to play .649 hockey.

 

What would have happened had that team made it into the playoffs last season?  Who knows.  What will happen this season should the Canucks play .628 hockey for the rest of the season and make it into the playoffs?  Who knows.  

 

Has any NHL team ever missed the playoffs one year and then won the Cup the next?   I doubt it.  But getting into the playoffs and getting some playoff experience is an important step in eventually winning the Cup.

 

So let's hope the Canucks start playing to their potential and we'll see what happens.

 

Teams were taking us lightly during that run. We played a lot of backups. Demko covered a LOT of warts.

 

We're neither as bad as our record now, nor are we as good as that run. What we certainly are though is a team that despite having some clearly good players, is lacking in "give a $#@!", that refuses to show up prepared for seasons, games and periods, with massive holes in it's roster and major succession issues. 

 

Whatever math you want to do isn't changing any of those things. The team needs major surgery, especially a heart transplant. You can't "rationalize" those problems away.

[Lumme21]

It's not only that they need to tank.... They need to start to intentionally moving players now, before this teams chances of a top 5 pick are out of reach. While people are celebrating a 5-4 win against Buffalo, the Canucks keep moving up the standings towards that 'Murky Middle' and FA sees a team that is 'in the playoff race' and won't have the balls to do what is needed now.

 

Horvat got a goal and 2 assists. Horvat is playing so hot right now, as the team starts playying bettter, he will keep this team close while his trade value won't get any higher then it is right now. Horvat, Miller should be traded ASAP. I'd say Boeser too, but his stupid penalty late in the game almost aided a Buffalo comeback, so  he and his terrible play can stay around a little longer.

 

Don't let FA get any inkling that a rebuild isn't the only solution....

[MaxVerstappen33]

2 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

This is the crux of the discussion.  Just how good or bad is this team?

 

I'm suggesting (and have been suggesting for some time) that any team that can play .649 hockey over an extended period of time (57 games), as this team did last season, is a good team.  It's got talent.  It has too, otherwise they wouldn't be able to play .649 hockey.

 

What would have happened had that team made it into the playoffs last season?  Who knows.  What will happen this season should the Canucks play .628 hockey for the rest of the season and make it into the playoffs?  Who knows.  

 

Has any NHL team ever missed the playoffs one year and then won the Cup the next?   I doubt it.  But getting into the playoffs and getting some playoff experience is an important step in eventually winning the Cup.

 

So let's hope the Canucks start playing to their potential and we'll see what happens.

It is too late imo. The team could probably do it. But we chased last year and it just isn't fun. Why chase this year again ? Just forget it. Sell now. Dip into this 2023 draft and go on a cup run in 2025. 

[MaxVerstappen33]

30 minutes ago, Lumme21 said:

It's not only that they need to tank.... They need to start to intentionally moving players now, before this teams chances of a top 5 pick are out of reach. 

We are really on a knife edge now. The new regime might decide to do their coaching change this week. 

 

Who knows though. We know that Greens defensive system wasn't working. Maybe the new coaches defensive system will be hard to learn. If there is no coaches bump , then we'll be safe. Maybe Bruce is still this teams best chance of winning. So getting rid of him will be good.

[The Arrogant Worms]

Sportsnet's 2023 NHL Draft Prospect Rankings: November Edition

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/sportsnets-2023-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-november-edition/

 

If you had told me a year ago that we’d be discussing anyone but Connor Bedard to go first overall in the 2023 NHL draft, I would’ve thought you didn’t know what you’re talking about. And while Bedard continues to dominate the WHL while maintaining a two point per game average, at least two others have joined the conversation to go first. 

 

 

One is Leo Carlsson of Sweden, who is putting up good numbers in the SHL, and was also effective in a trio of U20 games during the international break. Carlsson plays both centre and wing, he’s got good size, and excellent skating ability. He leans slightly more pass than shoot, but he’s risen tremendously since the start of the season. 

 

 

The other is Adam Fantilli from the University of Michigan, who is pacing all NCAA scorers. He's hovering around the two point per game mark, which is unheard of for a freshman. He skates like the wind and competes hard, utilizing his elite point producing abilities to help out defensively.

Both players are considerably larger than Bedard, and both have put up world-class numbers

 

. Having said that, Bedard is clearly the best pure goal-scorer of the trio and that trait is the most coveted in the NHL, and the hardest to find in the draft. 

 

This conversation doesn’t include Russia’s Matvey Michkov who is currently in a long-term contract, not to mention the geo-political ramifications. In a hockey vacuum, Michkov would clearly be part of the conversation for first overall. He will remain the most fascinating player to watch leading up to and into the draft.

 

 

 

 

 

[cripplereh]

We need a top three pick 1st would be unreal!