[PGT] St. Louis Blues at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 19, 2022

[HorvatToBaertschi]

All of this hatred towards management (jerseys being thrown on the ice, banners across the city, hate letters, messages on social media) would all be silenced if they just gave us clear information on what they are trying to accomplish. Benning was terrible at it and JR created a super management team that's done almost nothing except present us a GM that 80% of the fanbase don't even believe does anything. 

 

Give us a clear message on what the actual plan is. We are tired of this team. I spent 5 years in Europe waking up at 4 am to watch games, even though our team was terrible. Last night I turned the game off after 40 minutes and realized how much better my life was without the Canucks. Don't let me have a better life Aqualini, reel me back in.

Edited December 20, 2022 by HorvatToBaertschi

[ShawnAntoski]

Just now, jyu said:

They really should have managed his load last season instead of pushing him to his limits just to try to make the playoff push.

 

I hope he takes bulk of the season off and come back when he's fully ready. And even then, we should just ease him into games instead of playing every game.

 

Playoff chasing vs winning a Cup has always been the goal and what we are seeing, is what happens when the gamble goes south cause of poor leadership.  This article, confirms the ever retooling plan, that has led to this mess and the article was created 8yrs ago and looking into the yearly results: the Canucks in the 8yr period are bottom 6 in wins (excluding Vegas & Seattle)

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/569255

[lmm]

20 minutes ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

Horvat after running out of answers after another loss 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

All of this hatred towards management (jerseys being thrown on the ice, banners across the city, hate letters, messages on social media) would all be silenced if they just gave us clear information on what they are trying to accomplish. Benning was terrible at it and JR created a super management team that's done almost nothing except present us a GM that 80% of the fanbase don't even believe does anything. 

 

Give us a clear message on what the actual plan is.

IMHAO there has been a clear message.  The club will try to keep building by adding players who are younger but already in the NHL.  Allvin has said this on more than one occasion.  They don’t want picks/prospects; they want actual proven (younger though so they have some room to get better) NHLers.  

It’s the same direction Benning took.  It’s the same Gillis took.  Nonis got fired for refusing to take it.  Gillis got fired when he recognized it wouldn’t work anymore.  Linden got pushed out when he figured out it wouldn’t work.  Our owner refuses to allow any other direction.  And if we do have the key core pieces here (Petey, Demko, Hughes) it could work again.  Not what I prefer, but it’s what Allvin keeps saying (and showing with his moves) they’re trying to do.  

[ShawnAntoski]

11 minutes ago, stawns said:

Why wouldn’t they?  I want to see my team in the playoffs……..I’m fine if they finish low in the standings, but it’s pathetic to cheer for that

A lot of GM's would rather avoid the middle cause a team stuck in NHL Purgatory will never win a cup and being a LOOOOONG time fan, I would like the Canucks to win a cup.  I understand but if a regular season win is enough for you, to keep filling a seat then it is your choice, time & money.  Which will keep Aquaman happy and insistence on his flawed strategy that had led to a team, that is capped and medicore.  I dont want you to change your mind, if you can't understand where the apathetic fans are coming from - cheers.

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/569255

Edited December 20, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[EP Phone Home]

“We have a plan we are continuing to build brick by brick”-Patrik Allvin 

 

Ok Allvin building what exactly and what bricks are you using? I prefer building from  1st round and 2nd round picks but I understand that’s just not in this franchises budget or plan but where are we going and what are we f**king doing? Seriously?! Let me put more of that money into that fire cuz baby it’s cold outside and let’s just keep mindlessly throwing our disposable income at this mess as they are continuing to build brick by brick. SOLID! 

[canuck73_3]

5 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

All of this hatred towards management (jerseys being thrown on the ice, banners across the city, hate letters, messages on social media) would all be silenced if they just gave us clear information on what they are trying to accomplish. Benning was terrible at it and JR created a super management team that's done almost nothing except present us a GM that 80% of the fanbase don't even believe does anything. 

 

Give us a clear message on what the actual plan is.

Is it the message that's the problem or are people not understanding that our biggest issue is moving out cap for better fits while most teams are capped out? Teams aren't jumping to acquire contracts right now and if they will take one they're generally sending one back. 

 

Boeser has enough potential to bring a return, however that return will likely involve salary coming back (Dumba, Severson etc.)

Miller still moveable but would need salary coming back short or long term depending on the other teams cap situation expiring deals etc.

Horvat our best bet for a return with potential to retain for a bigger return as well

Myers very moveable but only after his 4 mill onus is paid so he's here until the offseason

Schenn best bet for draft capital return my ask starts at a 1st ends with a 2nd+ (I would prefer to lock him up to a new reasonable deal myself)

Garland if playing like last year I would look to move him not sure I'd sell low on him now as salary and likely term would be coming back. 

 

If any of the bigger salary moves out try and sign Kuz before deadline, no deal move for draft capital.

 

There is potential for this group to make moves but limited options due to league wide cap concerns, Schenn, Boeser and Bo (if negotiations don't work out) should be moveable this year at the very least. Could add Bear to this group though he is likely re-signed as he has been a pleasant fit with this group.

[stawns]

7 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

A lot of GM's would rather avoid the middle cause a team stuck in NHL Purgatory will never win a cup and being a LOOOOONG time fan, I would like the Canucks to win a cup.  I understand but if a regular season win is enough for you, to keep filling a seat then it is your choice, time & money.  Which will keep Aquaman happy and insistence on his flawed strategy that had led to a team, that is capped and medicore.  I dont want you to change your mind, if you can't understand where the apathetic fans are coming from - cheers.

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/569255

They should be working for a playoff spot, isn’t the entire point of the league?  They can still work for a playoff spot and make the big moves they need to make……..they’re not mutually exclusive

[ShawnAntoski]

37 minutes ago, Alflives said:

IMHAO there has been a clear message.  The club will try to keep building by adding players who are younger but already in the NHL.  Allvin has said this on more than one occasion.  They don’t want picks/prospects; they want actual proven (younger though so they have some room to get better) NHLers.  

It’s the same direction Benning took.  It’s the same Gillis took.  Nonis got fired for refusing to take it.  Gillis got fired when he recognized it wouldn’t work anymore.  Linden got pushed out when he figured out it wouldn’t work.  Our owner refuses to allow any other direction.  And if we do have the key core pieces here (Petey, Demko, Hughes) it could work again.  Not what I prefer, but it’s what Allvin keeps saying (and showing with his moves) they’re trying to do.  

JR & Allvin has a poor record in the draft and I really don't believe they will do any better, in a "win now" trade.  Since Bo will the best player, in any trade - the law diminishing return will eventually deprive the Canucks the of talent vs adding talent.  Poor leadership being force to make shortsighted moves to be a playoff fodder - PROFITS OVER CHAMPIONSHIPS, is Aquamans legacy as Canucks owner.

Edited December 20, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[rekker]

19 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

All of this hatred towards management (jerseys being thrown on the ice, banners across the city, hate letters, messages on social media)

Any twit that throws a jersey on the ice like the other night, during play, should be beat. I suspect it was some millennial goof who knows little of the sport. Jersey toss in general is just an idiotic statement. If I saw someone doing it there would be words, and maybe more.

[ShawnAntoski]

Just now, stawns said:

They should be working for a playoff spot, isn’t the entire point of the league?  They can still work for a playoff spot and make the big moves they need to make……..they’re not mutually exclusive

Understand the difference between winning a cup vs chasing a playoff spot ?  If not, then enjoy the mediocre product and keep Aquaman happy cause he will not change, as long as, the current endeavor remains profitable.  

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/569255

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, ShawnAntoski said:

JR & Allvin has a poor record in the draft and I really don't believe they will do any better, in a "win now" trade.  Since Bo will the best player, in any trade - the law diminishing return will eventually deprive the Canucks the of talent vs adding talent.  Poor leadership being force to make shortsighted moves to be playoff fodder - PROFITS OVER CHAMPIONSHIPS, is Aquamans legacy as Canucks owner.

Preaching to the Choir fellow long time Canuck fan. 

There are young guys in the league (or close to being in the league) we could try and get.  

Bo for Byram

Hughes for Byfield + Clarke

[ShawnAntoski]

Just now, rekker said:

Any twit that throws a jersey on the ice like the other night, during play, should be beat. I suspect it was some millennial goof who knows little of the sport. Jersey toss in general is just an idiotic statement. If I saw someone doing it there would be words, and maybe more.

Is he no longer, a fan then ?

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, rekker said:

Any twit that throws a jersey on the ice like the other night, during play, should be beat. I suspect it was some millennial goof who knows little of the sport. Jersey toss in general is just an idiotic statement. If I saw someone doing it there would be words, and maybe more.

Yup.  Wear a bag.

[eeeeergh]

2 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

JR & Allvin has a poor record in the draft and I really don't believe they will do any better, in a "win now" trade.  Since Bo will the best player, in any trade - the law diminishing return will eventually deprive the Canucks the of talent vs adding talent.  Poor leadership being force to make shortsighted moves to be playoff fodder - PROFITS OVER CHAMPIONSHIPS, is Aquamans legacy as Canucks owner.

On balance I think they’ve done ok this year 

the later round draft picks are looking solid. 
pretty happy with the focus on free players & prospects (mikheyev was a good pickup, kuz, Filip Johansson, Aman, etc.) 

 

The McDermott trade looks bad I think b/c of injury, but I liked his game last year. 
 

The Bear trade essentially ended up being: 

Dickinson, a 2nd, a 5th 

for

Bear + Pederson + Stillman (praise be)

 

Bear is rounding out into a decent 2nd pair RD, I’m happy with the deal. 
 

I want to see what they can do with another year, and with their own coaching choice. 

[ShawnAntoski]

15 minutes ago, Alflives said:

IMHAO there has been a clear message.  The club will try to keep building by adding players who are younger but already in the NHL.  Allvin has said this on more than one occasion.  They don’t want picks/prospects; they want actual proven (younger though so they have some room to get better) NHLers.  

It’s the same direction Benning took.  It’s the same Gillis took.  Nonis got fired for refusing to take it.  Gillis got fired when he recognized it wouldn’t work anymore.  Linden got pushed out when he figured out it wouldn’t work.  Our owner refuses to allow any other direction.  And if we do have the key core pieces here (Petey, Demko, Hughes) it could work again.  Not what I prefer, but it’s what Allvin keeps saying (and showing with his moves) they’re trying to do.  

I would rephrase: the young players they are aiming for are the Vey or Stillman types: youngish type players that had their developments stalled, for various reasons and this is a gamble that will be devastating cause we had seen what happened to JBs' trades for these types of players - but luckily, it was only costing him 2nd round picks vs a Bo Horvat type player.   Preferably and it is a pipe dream, a similar trade to Sakics' Duchene trade: a balance approach of establish players and lottery tickets to be hedge.

[ShawnAntoski]

7 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

On balance I think they’ve done ok this year 

the later round draft picks are looking solid. 
pretty happy with the focus on free players & prospects (mikheyev was a good pickup, kuz, Filip Johansson, Aman, etc.) 

 

The McDermott trade looks bad I think b/c of injury, but I liked his game last year. 
 

The Bear trade essentially ended up being: 

Dickinson, a 2nd, a 5th 

for

Bear + Pederson + Stillman (praise be)

 

Bear is rounding out into a decent 2nd pair RD, I’m happy with the deal. 
 

I want to see what they can do with another year, and with their own coaching choice. 

When you compartmententalized the transactions, they can both be justified & criticize but overall, as a group the results, is mediocre - is where I am coming from.  Individually good players but as a team - mediocre, at best.

Edited December 20, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[Fanuck]

28 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Give us a clear message on what the actual plan is. 

To me the plan has been clear for years,  ownership is calling the shots, and they will sacrifice the long-term viability of the club for the hope of 2 playoff games at home.  How anyone could argue otherwise after watching for the past 10 years is beyond me?  What's been going on speaks for itself don't you think?

[EP Phone Home]

15 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Playoff chasing vs winning a Cup has always been the goal and what we are seeing, is what happens when the gamble goes south cause of poor leadership.  This article, confirms the ever retooling plan, that has led to this mess and the article was created 8yrs ago and looking into the yearly results: the Canucks in the 8yr period are bottom 6 in wins (excluding Vegas & Seattle)

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/569255

This quote is basically what our whole plan is from that article. I challenge anyone to convince me otherwise that management/ownership have a bolder more concrete and decisive plan.

“Once you’re in the playoffs, anything can happen. Certain players can get really hot and make a difference and you just never know” 

 

imagine that we have lived and wasted almost ten years of our lives by “just get in and anything can happen, you just never know” essentially, we have ambitions to be the 2021 Montreal Canadians Cinderella team. Not to win it but be in it. It’s just depressing at this point. 

[ShawnAntoski]

Just now, Fanuck said:

To me the plan has been clear for years,  ownership is calling the shots, and they will sacrifice the long-term viability of the club for the hope of 2 playoff games at home.  How anyone could argue otherwise after watching for the past 10 years is beyond me?  What's been going on speaks for itself don't you think?

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/569255

 

And we all know, the yearly results...